2020-21 NBA Season Discussion

[falcolombardi]

This is the most wide-open field I've ever seen in the NBA. Even if you remove the Hawks, you still have:

Suns
Jazz
Clippers
Nets
Bucks
76ers

You could make an argument for every single one of these teams to win the championship.

What a great time to be a basketball fan.

4 of those never won a nba ring : 2 are traditionally strong teams that are long overdue for a ring, another 2 are traditionally sad sack franchises with painful history (clippers more so, but nets were kinda Robbed in the merger)

another is a really small market thay won once exactly 50 years ago

the only big ish market that has won before is philadelphia. a team that won in 1983 last time, not exactly a royalty team like los angeles

for people who care a lot about that, 4 of them were build thought the draft for the most part, the 4 that look more likely to win right now

which in a time where big vs small markets is a sore topic, is probably good for the league image to have small market and/or draft "homegrown"teams winning

the only negative mark is how much injuries have influence these results as a bit of a black mark but basketball is like that

overall a really nice result for a neutral fan perspective imo

[Joey Wheeler]

Would you guys really take the Suns over the Jazz/Clippers? I see the Suns as underdogs against either opponent.

Yup, and I think it'll only take 5 games. Suns are really, really good and clearly superior to the Jazz and the Clippers imo. Them vs Lakers was the de facto WCF; I thought they had got ridiculously unlucky to face the Lakers in R1, but turns out they actually got lucky as if it had a WCF matchup maybe Lebron and AD would be both healthy by then.

[mikejames23]

Would you guys really take the Suns over the Jazz/Clippers? I see the Suns as underdogs against either opponent.

Well, The Jazz look like the best out of the three. To quote T-rex from another thread -

Rudy's combined +19.1 on/off in the rs is (I think) among the top ~10-15 marks of the last 25 years [among players with at least a few hundred minutes]. In the playoffs so far [sample size obv an issue] he's a +22.4.

Just a scary mofo. Could somehow gameplan to bring down Utah's absurd shooters, but Gobert is another issue.

The Clippers. Meh. I am not super into their approach to the game and see them going down pretty quick, but Tyronne Lue is a mastermind of sorts and their season isn't over.

Unlike the Curry/LeBron years, I don't know the end of this season for sure. A mystery.

For now, I've

Jazz
Suns
Clips

in that order.

[HeartBreakKid]

Would you guys really take the Suns over the Jazz/Clippers? I see the Suns as underdogs against either opponent.

Yup, and I think it'll only take 5 games. Suns are really, really good and clearly superior to the Jazz and the Clippers imo. Them vs Lakers was the de facto WCF; I thought they had got ridiculously unlucky to face the Lakers in R1, but turns out they actually got lucky as if it had a WCF matchup maybe Lebron and AD would be both healthy by then.

That was the way I saw it. I thought people were not thinking long term for the other contending teams, the time to face a team riddled with injuries is in the first round before they recover or shake off the rust.

Though, the idea of a healthy Lakers is somewhat of a myth. Anthony Davis wasn't very good throughout the year, he was never "healthy" in the first place. And James seemed to be a level below pre ankle injury (he might be able to shake off the rust if he was given like another month).

For all intents and purposes, a healthy Lakers is almost like saying a healthy Grant Hill post 2000. They were just better in 2020 than this year.

[70sFan]

Do I really see here people saying that WCF series won't take longer than 5 games? Based on what? Clippers match up very well against the Suns (who will guard Kawhi?) and Jazz are extremely good themselves. Not to mention that Bucks/Philly/healthy Nets will be a problem in the finals as well.

Suns are not some kind of juggernaut. They beat two strong, but heavily injured teams so far. Good for them, they did what they were supposed to but don't act like it makes them huge favorites.

[70sFan]

What do you guys think if Kawhi Leonard's defense this post season?

He was very solid in Mavs series, but I wouldn't call him all-time great anymore.

[bondom34]

Do I really see here people saying that WCF series won't take longer than 5 games? Based on what? Clippers match up very well against the Suns (who will guard Kawhi?) and Jazz are extremely good themselves. Not to mention that Bucks/Philly/healthy Nets will be a problem in the finals as well.

Suns are not some kind of juggernaut. They beat two strong, but heavily injured teams so far. Good for them, they did what they were supposed to but don't act like it makes them huge favorites.

Yeah, I think either would be a fun series and expect them to be competitive either way. Look forward to either matchup as well, though do think the Suns take either right now (and probably shouldn't b/c my preseason Clippers title pick is still possible lol).

[70sFan]

Also, I feel bad for Jokic. Denver team was outmatched in this series and people keep talking now that he shouldn't even win the MVP because of this role...

[Dutchball97]

Also, I feel bad for Jokic. Denver team was outmatched in this series and people keep talking now that he shouldn't even win the MVP because of this role...

He could've lost to a superteam in the finals and people would've still blamed him for the loss. Look at LeBron in 2017 and 2018. Hell, people are still making threads trying to dismiss Kawhi's 2019 post-season run and he actually won the championship.

No matter what happens there will always be insecure people hating on players.

[GSP]

Do I really see here people saying that WCF series won't take longer than 5 games? Based on what? Clippers match up very well against the Suns (who will guard Kawhi?) and Jazz are extremely good themselves. Not to mention that Bucks/Philly/healthy Nets will be a problem in the finals as well.

Suns are not some kind of juggernaut. They beat two strong, but heavily injured teams so far. Good for them, they did what they were supposed to but don't act like it makes them huge favorites.

Nets are done. 0 chance Kyrie comes back this series and Harden hasn't done on court work yet and they won't rush.

As far as who will guard Kawhi, Phoenix has one of the most equipped defensive personnel with Bridges, Crowder and also Ayton manning the paint.

Ppl haven't seemed to realize it yet but Ayton is a top 5 defender in the league. It wasn't just his defense on Jokic slashers and perimeter players switched onto him are having a nightmare job doing anything. He's Bam level on defense at the least and is prolly better since his rim protection is better

Read on Twitter

Suns are a level above everyone else. They've been the most complete team all season Utah has a higher ortg but their offense is more one dimensional and not near as dynamic. I think Philly is their toughest opponent and that's gonna be the finals IMO. Jazz have little chance VS them it's a bad matchup. Clips match up better than Utah but Ayton is gonna be way too much of a problem on both ends

[frica]

Also, I feel bad for Jokic. Denver team was outmatched in this series and people keep talking now that he shouldn't even win the MVP because of this role...

Jokic wins = due to his teammates scoring.
Jokic loses = due to his own defence failing.

Injured team and a weak roster be damned.

[Colbinii]

What do you guys think if Kawhi Leonard's defense this post season?

He was very solid in Mavs series, but I wouldn't call him all-time great anymore.

Yeah I would put him around +1.25/1.5 which is quite solid. He had a game a few days ago where he made a couple steals due to the correct rotation and it gave me flashbacks to 2016.

[Jaivl]

If Harden was the one flopping last night instead of Cam Payne we'd never hear the end of it.

[70sFan]

What do you think about officiating in Bucks vs Nets series? They allow a lot of contact and they call moving screens and charges fairly consistently.

Personally, I love it - especially Tucker's physical defense on Durant. It's so exciting to watch grueling, physical battles like that.

[MartinToVaught]

Would you guys really take the Suns over the Jazz/Clippers? I see the Suns as underdogs against either opponent.

I'd take them over the Jazz.

The Clippers - more of a toss-up.

I think if the Clippers could finally get over that franchise-wide mental hurdle in the second round and make the WCF for once, it would be like a weight lifted off the whole team's shoulders and they could finally just play. For that reason, I would like our chances against the Suns.

[MartinToVaught]

Some people will try to use Booker as a weapon to degrade what CP3 did.

Well, no, the opposite is happening. People are just ignoring Booker and Ayton altogether to give CP3 all the credit for their success, much like how they ignore that everything truly started clicking into place for the Suns in the bubble last year with Rubio instead of CP3.

[Mos_Heat]

What do you think about officiating in Bucks vs Nets series? They allow a lot of contact and they call moving screens and charges fairly consistently.

Personally, I love it - especially Tucker's physical defense on Durant. It's so exciting to watch grueling, physical battles like that.

I think anyone but Bill Simmons and Kevin Durant enjoy Tucker's defense

[Texas Chuck]

Some people will try to use Booker as a weapon to degrade what CP3 did.

Well, no, the opposite is happening. People are just ignoring Booker and Ayton altogether to give CP3 all the credit for their success, much like how they ignore that everything truly started clicking into place for the Suns in the bubble last year with Rubio instead of CP3.

Yeah no. Everyone constantly brings up 8-0 in the bubble. Which was great. But we can't overreact to bubble stuff. It's impossible to argue the Suns would be where they are now with Rubio/Oubre instead of Paul.

Fine if you hate Paul for old stuff. But Paul is a huge part of this team and we shouldn't pretend otherwise. Just is significant growth from Ayton and Bridges. Just is the perfect fit of Crowder as a hard-nosed vet.

But acting like Paul isn't significant here is insulting to all of us.

[MisterHibachi]

Feels pretty strange that Cuban has given a sports gambler with no league experience this much control over the roster. Doubt he would choose Voulgaris over Doncic if it comes to it, but nevertheless strange situation.

https://theathletic.com/2649806/2021/06/14/inside-the-mavericks-front-office-mark-cubans-shadow-gm-is-causing-a-rift-with-luka-doncic

In early February, during the second quarter of a home game against the Golden State Warriors, Luka Doncic carelessly turned over the ball and received feedback from a Dallas Mavericks employee he didn’t care for: Haralabos Voulgaris, a well-known sports gambler hired by team owner Mark Cuban in 2018.

Voulgaris, sitting with an open laptop in his typical courtside seat across from the Mavericks’ bench, motioned downward with his hands, which Doncic specifically interpreted as Voulgaris telling him to calm down, multiple team and league sources tell The Athletic. Doncic snapped back, telling Voulgaris, according to one source’s recollection, “Don’t **** tell me to calm down.” The same sources say Voulgaris later professed that his motion wasn’t solely directed at Doncic, but regardless of intent, it only worsened an already inflamed relationship between the two.

Multiple league and team sources tell The Athletic that Voulgaris has been the most influential voice within the Mavericks front office since joining the team, either initiating or approving virtually every transaction made over the past two seasons. Those same sources add that Voulgaris has frequently gone as far as scripting the starting lineups and rotations for longtime head coach Rick Carlisle.

Doncic noticed Voulgaris’ early departure. In the locker room after the game, multiple league and team sources say he told teammates he viewed Voulgaris leaving before the game’s conclusion as him quitting on them.

[Goudelock]

What do you think about officiating in Bucks vs Nets series? They allow a lot of contact and they call moving screens and charges fairly consistently.

Personally, I love it - especially Tucker's physical defense on Durant. It's so exciting to watch grueling, physical battles like that.

I think it's fun to see more physicality, but I also think it would be a mistake to conflate physical play and good officiating with good defense (not that you're doing that). Seems like both teams are missing a lot of open shots.