2010-11 Player of the Year thread

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Re: 2010-11 Player of the Year thread 

Post#341 » by JordansBulls » Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:26 pm

Dr Mufasa wrote:I'd be surprised if my final ranking is any different than:

1. Dirk
2. Wade
3. Lebron
4. Rose
5. Howard

Dirk is a virtual lock at 1 for me, winning as much in the Heat in the regular season without the star help + insane playoff run leading Dallas to at min. G7 of the Finals. Wade gets the edge over Lebron due to these finals. If LBJ shows up the last 2 games he can still pass Wade. But at this point the difference has been substantial enough for me. Can't give Rose more playoff credit than LBJ, when LBJ killed up to the point where Rose got eliminated. Rose is the MVP. Howard had a great statistical year but I didn't like his effort level or impact on teammates as much as Rose all year and Atlanta's strategy of daring him to go off while everyone else is stopped would be disastrous against the top 4 guys.

6th is probably Durant and I'm not a huge fan. I need to see a lot more out of him in set plays, right now I see him as the best oppurtunist in the league. Westbrook puts more pressure on the defense nightly to me.


At this point I don't see how you don't give Dirk the top spot unless he plays like crap in the next few games or so and Mavs lose. He would essentially had gone thru Kobe, Durant, Lebron and Wade to get to the title and had to win 2 of those series without HCA.
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Re: 2010-11 Player of the Year thread 

Post#342 » by Sedale Threatt » Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:28 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:Hehe. Yeah it's funny how it works. I'd like to say it's because I like smart basketball players because I appreciate the incredible talent involved with making the right choices, but in the end its probably more about being irritated whenever I see people doing something wrong and then hearing Mark Jackson chortle his approval with a series of mind-numbing cliches.


He is wretched, isn't he? Style over substance, again.
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Re: 2010-11 Player of the Year thread 

Post#343 » by ElGee » Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:22 pm

Sedale Threatt wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:Hehe. Yeah it's funny how it works. I'd like to say it's because I like smart basketball players because I appreciate the incredible talent involved with making the right choices, but in the end its probably more about being irritated whenever I see people doing something wrong and then hearing Mark Jackson chortle his approval with a series of mind-numbing cliches.


He is wretched, isn't he? Style over substance, again.


What you have to remembah, when we're talkin' about Sedale Threatt, is one of the best postahs on realgm time and time AGAIN. An absolute warriah, who gets the job done when called upon.

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Re: 2010-11 Player of the Year thread 

Post#344 » by ElGee » Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:25 pm

mopper8 wrote:
Sedale Threatt wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:In general, while I'm all for giving props to teammates playing roles, I think using that to take away from Dirk is unreasonable.


I didn't get the sense he is doing that, at all. Rather, trying to bring a little realism to the tendency to give one guy ALL of the credit. (Or ALL of the blame, for that matter.)


Yeah this.


Is ESPN going to start a new trend of quantifying blame now? It's so beyond ridiculous, I'm just hoping they stop. "95%" blame on a player for a loss. Or "75%" credit for a win. My lord, these people actually think basketball IS a game of one on one.

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Re: 2010-11 Player of the Year thread 

Post#345 » by fatal9 » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:50 am

ElGee wrote:What you have to remembah, when we're talkin' about Sedale Threatt, is one of the best postahs on realgm time and time AGAIN. An absolute warriah, who gets the job done when called upon.

*pulls string again*

People say Doctah MJ is a Kobe lovah. The thing I see is a man givin' 110% in every post. That's all you can ask from a competitah.

This is what I call a grown man post.
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Re: 2010-11 Player of the Year thread 

Post#346 » by GreenHat » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:30 am

JordansBulls wrote:At this point I don't see how you don't give Dirk the top spot unless he plays like crap in the next few games or so and Mavs lose. He would essentially had gone thru Kobe, Durant, Lebron and Wade to get to the title and had to win 2 of those series without HCA.


Well yeah assuming he wins, I don't think anyone is going to make the argument against him and he'll be near unanimous.

If he loses though then you have Lebron who had the better regular season and was just as good through the first three rounds and would have just beaten Dirk coming back from a 3-2 deficit in the finals. If the Heat win this will still be known as the year of Lebron and he will have been the best player this year and worthy of player of the year despite a couple of spotty games in the first half of the finals. The fact that we even consider a triple-double to be a bad game from Lebron when that wouldn't be said for ANY other player shows how far ahead of the field he was going into this series and how much higher his expectations were.

If Lebron and Dirk had switched stats in the last game, people would be lauding Dirk's complete game and Lebron's would be regarded as ho-hum. Instead Lebron is getting killed and Dirk is being heralded.

Now if the Heat win and Lebron lays some more eggs than that most likely means that Wade had two big games. If Wade ends the 7 game finals series with a Final's MVP and a 40 PER in the finals how can he not get it? Its not like he was bad in the regular season either, he was just overshadowed.

If Dallas wins, then Dirk is a no brainer, but if the Heat win at least one of Lebron or Wade will have a good case. I can't see the Heat winning it all without one of them having a better case when its all said and done.
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Re: 2010-11 Player of the Year thread 

Post#347 » by Doctor MJ » Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:53 pm

GreenHat wrote:If he loses though then you have Lebron who had the better regular season and was just as good through the first three rounds and would have just beaten Dirk coming back from a 3-2 deficit in the finals. If the Heat win this will still be known as the year of Lebron and he will have been the best player this year and worthy of player of the year despite a couple of spotty games in the first half of the finals. The fact that we even consider a triple-double to be a bad game from Lebron when that wouldn't be said for ANY other player shows how far ahead of the field he was going into this series and how much higher his expectations were.

If Lebron and Dirk had switched stats in the last game, people would be lauding Dirk's complete game and Lebron's would be regarded as ho-hum. Instead Lebron is getting killed and Dirk is being heralded.

Now if the Heat win and Lebron lays some more eggs than that most likely means that Wade had two big games. If Wade ends the 7 game finals series with a Final's MVP and a 40 PER in the finals how can he not get it? Its not like he was bad in the regular season either, he was just overshadowed.

If Dallas wins, then Dirk is a no brainer, but if the Heat win at least one of Lebron or Wade will have a good case. I can't see the Heat winning it all without one of them having a better case when its all said and done.


Count me among those who don't think it's clear at all that LeBron had a better regular season. I had him above Dirk in my MVP vote, but only because Dirk missed time with injury. I also had Dirk & LeBron as my co-#1's coming in to this series, so in my book, LeBron had no cushion to coast on.

A key thing to understand is the redundant aspect of LeBron and Wade (shameless plug - which I just wrote about on my blog). Literally, Dirk is significantly less replaceable for the Mavs than any of the Heatles are on Miami.

Re: Stats reversed we'd be praising Dirk. No we wouldn't. We're watching these games man, LeBron simply isn't looking nearly as good as Dirk or Wade. Besides, Dirk gets crucified for the '06 Finals and the '07 Warrior series specifically because they took away his ability to thrive as a first option. If it happened again here it would feed directly into that meme.

Re: Year of LeBron. He'd have to do something utterly insane over the next two games for people to remember it as if this was LeBron's team at this point. This probably isn't entirely fair, but being ridiculously outplayed by Wade in the one competitive series they play which happened to be the Finals is a problem. You're right though that it is the Year of LeBron in the sense that he is the one more than anyone else who is defining the year, it's just that right not, the result for will not be the narrative he'd want.

As far as what the next two games mean. Obviously, if any of these players totally goes off, that could sway things. However, as things stand now, Dallas is a team only lacking HCA because of bad luck who has taken the series to 7. I'm most definitely not going to give #1 to LeBron or Wade simply because they're able to win an unbalanced series. If the 3 players are all roughly as impressive over the next 2 games, Dirk's probably my #1, although Wade's on my mind.
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Re: 2010-11 Player of the Year thread 

Post#348 » by semi-sentient » Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:58 am

1. Dirk Nowitzki
2. Dwight Howard
3. Dwyane Wade
4. LeBron James
5. Derrick Rose
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Re: 2010-11 Player of the Year thread 

Post#349 » by RocketPower23 » Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:07 am

Dirk
Dwight
Who cares :)
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Re: 2010-11 Player of the Year thread 

Post#350 » by JordansBulls » Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:10 am

semi-sentient wrote:1. Dirk Nowitzki
2. Dwight Howard
3. Dwyane Wade
4. LeBron James
5. Derrick Rose


Yeah, I can't believe how freaking bad Lebron played in the finals.

Dirk is my #1 for sure, after that the rest of the 5 can go in any order pretty much.
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Re: 2010-11 Player of the Year thread 

Post#351 » by Dr Positivity » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:44 am

Staying with

1. Dirk - No brainer for me
2. Wade - Actually aggressive in the finals, unlike Lebron. Right up there for regular seasons
3. Lebron - No way Rose would choke like this in the Finals, but can't put him over Lebron when LBJ made the Finals over him due to better conference Finals
4. Rose - Best regular season, didn't have enough offensive help
5. Howard - Rose gets the edge over him due to impact on teammates. Howard gets edge over Durant by having a more rounded game. Durant has work to do for me

Second straight year Durant hasn't made my ballot. Hmm. Starting to look like he's more tier 2 than his reputation suggests.
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Re: 2010-11 Player of the Year thread 

Post#352 » by letsnotsuckpls » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:57 am

Dr Mufusa, can you statistically back up the argument that Rose is above Howard and Durant?
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Re: 2010-11 Player of the Year thread 

Post#353 » by Gongxi » Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:08 am

If we're not waiting a couple weeks for the recency bias to wear off...

1. LeBron James
2. Dirk Nowitzki
3. Dwight Howard
4. Dwyane Wade
5. Kevin Durant
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Re: 2010-11 Player of the Year thread 

Post#354 » by ORLANDO_MAGIC » Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:10 am

1) Dirk

2) Dont care.
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Re: 2010-11 Player of the Year thread 

Post#355 » by alucryts » Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:27 am

i think as of tonight i have

1. Dirk
2. Lebron
3. Dwight
4. Wade
5. deciding between rose and durant...
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Re: 2010-11 Player of the Year thread 

Post#356 » by Sedale Threatt » Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:36 am

1. Nowitzki
2. James
3. Howard
4. Wade
5. Rose
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Re: 2010-11 Player of the Year thread 

Post#357 » by mysticbb » Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:48 am

Nowitzki played poorly in the first half of game 6. Not just missing shots he usually makes at a higher percentage, but also making poor decisions. He picked it up, played above his average in the 2nd half, but overall that game 6 should NOT be the dicision maker. The problem I have is that James played poorly too. He made also bad decisions on offense leading to easy opportunities for the Mavericks. Best player on the court for me was Chris Bosh. Terry made some tough shots, but Bosh was just making the better plays and basketball decisions. Unfortunately for him he wasn't featured more during the game. Wade had some bad turnovers (dribbling on his feet in an important possessions was just bad). Thus I can't elevate Wade even though his finals numbers are looking impressive. But I never had the feeling he controlled the game and it shows up in the +/- numbers.

Nowitzki had one bad game (well, one really bad half) in these finals, made some great decisions otherwise. His second half of game 6 could have been even better, if not some of the decisions his teammates made would have been bad. I give Nowitzki credit for this finals, even though his shooting wasn't as great as in previous rounds. He picked up his rebounding on the defensive end, tried to make smart decisions with the ball, looked for the best opportunities for the team. Yes, and finally he won it all. Well, he had a great season and without the injury he would likely won the MVP (heck, I think he was disrespected in the voting anyway). I think I will go with:

1. Nowitzki
2. James
3. Howard
4. Wade
5. Rose

I leave out Durant, because I never really felt his impact was beyond the boxscore numbers in this season. Maybe it wasn't his fault and more some selfish plays by Westbrook, but overall I take the regular season MVP over him. Garnett and Ginobili were really good too, and if we just talk about per minute impact I would take them in the Top5 ahead of Wade and Rose, but they didn't have quite the minutes and I'm not confident to say they could have kept their level of play with increased minutes. Thus it leaves them with honorable mentions.
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Re: 2010-11 Player of the Year thread 

Post#358 » by fallacy » Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:10 am

just after tonight


1. Dirk
2. Howard
3. Lebron
4. Wade
5. Durant
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Re: 2010-11 Player of the Year thread 

Post#359 » by kaima » Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:44 am

I don't find it at all obvious that Dirk is number 1.

LeBron had a great run through the East, was considered better by almost everyone heading into the playoffs (how much was Dirk on people's radars before the post-season?), and did this against, arguably, the tougher conference/bracket.

Did he have a miserable Finals? Yes.

To me that knocks him down, as his performance very much harmed his team's chances.

But does Nowitzki automatically become number 1? I don't believe so, no.

I think his teammates and, particularly, cleverness of team construction are being overlooked. The shooting for this team, matched to the softer rules, amalgamated in a great way with Chandler's addition.

Basically this is becoming another zero-sum argument on title outcomes.

Dirk played great. Sure. But I don't see much evidence that he was one of the top 3-5 players from October to June.

If the voting must be done now, then I will bow out.
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Re: 2010-11 Player of the Year thread 

Post#360 » by kaima » Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:47 am

KB8MVP wrote:Dirk
Dwight
Who cares :)


It's an odd conflation -- Dirk is NOWitzki because of, well, now. If his team loses in the first round, he likely isn't making any top 5s no matter how well he played.

In past POY threads, the argument was made that a top player eliminated early, especially with big stats, could be argued as an underwhelming presence. It may be a Devil's advocate moment for me, but at the same time I find Dirk and Dwight being placed together as 1 and 2 particularly odd considering season trajectories.

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