Your Unpopular Basketball Opinions? [PC Board Edition]

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Re: Your Unpopular Basketball Opinions? [PC Board Edition] 

Post#341 » by Quotatious » Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:36 pm

bondom34 wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
bondom34 wrote:Strangely I think that about Harden.


Same!

I'd disagree on WB though. And Wall I don't see near either. I think Westbrook's top 5, Harden top 8, Wall top 20ish.

Edit: Though this is probably less unpopular than yours lol.

I think Wall is underrated but Westbrook and Harden are significantly better. I need to see more of Wall in the postseason - he's been amazing, but it's just 5 games (in RS I don't think he came close to those guys). For example his 3-point shooting is definitely unsustainable.

I can't agree with the notion that Harden and/or Westbrook aren't top 5 players. I think they easily are.
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Re: RE: Re: Your Unpopular Basketball Opinions? [PC Board Edition] 

Post#342 » by Colbinii » Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:56 pm

Quotatious wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
Same!

I'd disagree on WB though. And Wall I don't see near either. I think Westbrook's top 5, Harden top 8, Wall top 20ish.

Edit: Though this is probably less unpopular than yours lol.

I think Wall is underrated but Westbrook and Harden are significantly better. I need to see more of Wall in the postseason - he's been amazing, but it's just 5 games (in RS I don't think he came close to those guys). For example his 3-point shooting is definitely unsustainable.

I can't agree with the notion that Harden and/or Westbrook aren't top 5 players. I think they easily are.

Well, I think vert strong cases can be made for LeBron, Curry, Paul, Durant and Kawhi. Then, you have players like Butler and Green, depending on what you value, could also be in the mix.

Keep in mind I am not talking about who had the "better season", rather I am speaking in terms of vacuum goodness.
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Re: RE: Re: Your Unpopular Basketball Opinions? [PC Board Edition] 

Post#343 » by bondom34 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:48 pm

Colbinii wrote: I am speaking in terms of vacuum goodness.
]

Spoiler:
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Re: Your Unpopular Basketball Opinions? [PC Board Edition] 

Post#344 » by juice4080 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:26 pm

whether it's westbrook....wall...iverson.....paul......harden.....nash and whether they're pass first pg or shoot first pg.. i don't want any undersized intensive ball possession pg on my team...those players don't have an history of championship success so i'll pass on them and build my team through other means
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Re: Your Unpopular Basketball Opinions? [PC Board Edition] 

Post#345 » by ceiling raiser » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:38 pm

juice4080 wrote:whether it's westbrook....wall...iverson.....paul......harden.....nash and whether they're pass first pg or shoot first pg.. i don't want any undersized intensive ball possession pg on my team...those players don't have an history of championship success so i'll pass on them and build my team through other means

What role do you want the PG to have on your team? A 3-and-D type guy with handles to run the offense for the second unit (assuming the starting lineup is staggered)?
Now that's the difference between first and last place.
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Re: Your Unpopular Basketball Opinions? [PC Board Edition] 

Post#346 » by juice4080 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:45 pm

fpliii wrote:
juice4080 wrote:whether it's westbrook....wall...iverson.....paul......harden.....nash and whether they're pass first pg or shoot first pg.. i don't want any undersized intensive ball possession pg on my team...those players don't have an history of championship success so i'll pass on them and build my team through other means

What role do you want the PG to have on your team? A 3-and-D type guy with handles to run the offense for the second unit (assuming the starting lineup is staggered)?


yep...a guy like prime derek fisher fits the bill to a T....the most usage heavy pg i could want is someone around sam cassell level
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Re: Your Unpopular Basketball Opinions? [PC Board Edition] 

Post#347 » by ceiling raiser » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:48 pm

juice4080 wrote:
fpliii wrote:
juice4080 wrote:whether it's westbrook....wall...iverson.....paul......harden.....nash and whether they're pass first pg or shoot first pg.. i don't want any undersized intensive ball possession pg on my team...those players don't have an history of championship success so i'll pass on them and build my team through other means

What role do you want the PG to have on your team? A 3-and-D type guy with handles to run the offense for the second unit (assuming the starting lineup is staggered)?


yep...a guy like prime derek fisher fits the bill to a T....the most usage heavy pg i could want is someone around sam cassell level

How about Conley? Though he is looking to score a bit much in this postseason (not that Memphis has a ton of other options).
Now that's the difference between first and last place.
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Re: Your Unpopular Basketball Opinions? [PC Board Edition] 

Post#348 » by juice4080 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:50 pm

fpliii wrote:
juice4080 wrote:
fpliii wrote:What role do you want the PG to have on your team? A 3-and-D type guy with handles to run the offense for the second unit (assuming the starting lineup is staggered)?


yep...a guy like prime derek fisher fits the bill to a T....the most usage heavy pg i could want is someone around sam cassell level

How about Conley? Though he is looking to score a bit much in this postseason (not that Memphis has a ton of other options).


yep conley of the guys playing currently would be my optimal target.....we're thinking along the same lines
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Re: Your Unpopular Basketball Opinions? [PC Board Edition] 

Post#349 » by sp6r=underrated » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:52 pm

sp6r=underrated wrote:Other unpopular opinions with some

i) Hybrid (on/off box score stats) are woefully undervalued on this board.
ii) Video tracking stats are part of the same family of stats as the traditional box score stats.
iii) It is deranged not to use box score stats somewhat in your analysis.
iv) Coaches have career arcs. They develop as their career goes on until they eventually enter a period of decline.
v) Flip Saunders was a very good coach who did a great job in Detroit. The Pistons would have been worse if Brown stuck around.
vi) Intangibles do matter to a degree. The media overplays it so it has become a term of derision on this board.
vii) On offense, the major difference between Kobe and MJ is athletic ability.
viii) MJ's leadership skills are vastly overrated and were probably harmful at times.
ix) AI was a great player who peaked at the absolute worse time for his skill-set. He would have been a lot better if he had been ten years earlier or later.
x) The era of heavy contacting at the perimeter was the late 90s early 00s not the 80s.
xi) The NBA's unofficial decision to loosen up the rules against moving screens is probably as important as the handchecking change in 05.
xii) Marion was better than Amar'e.


Looking back 2 years later
i) I don't think they are undervalued as much anymore
ii) I still think this is true.
iii) I still think this is true but the eliminate the box score crowd is less militant.
iv) I think this is important but undiscussed.
v) I still think this is true.
vi) I still think this is true.
vii) I still think this is true.
viii) I still think this is true.
ix) I still think this is true.
x) I don't think this a unique opinion anymore.
xi) I think this is understated. The decision to allow illegal screens was more important than the formal rule changes.
xii) I am not sure this is a minority opinion anymore.

- Playoffs are generally overvalued.
- 1995 Rockets are the worse title team since 1980 and had massive structural flaws. There playoff run to me is no different than that massive Hawks winning streak: a bunch of guys playing over their heads for a month and a half.
- 2009 and 2010 Magic were legitimate title contenders and are underappreciated because of Howard's behavior the last few years along with people reading too much into the 2010 ECF.
- Magic Johnson's peak was lower than KG and TD.
- The two best Spurs title teams (05 and 14) were as good or better than the best Showtime title team.
- Hakeem is closer to being out of the top 10 than a legitimate GOAT level player.
- RAPM is overvalued.
- Playoff on/off is of negligible value.


1. Still an unpopular but correct opinion.
2. Still an unpopular but correct opinion.
3. Still an unpopular but correct opinion.
4. I no longer hold this opinion.
5. I don't think this is a unique view.
6. Still an unpopular but correct opinion.
7. I don't think it is overvalued anymore.
8. Still an unpopular but correct opinion. People are now quoting game/quarter on/off which is even worse.

- The Age Limit, Players Draft and Salary Cap lower the quality of play in the NBA and should be gotten rid of.
- Competitive balance and parity are overrated with regards to the enjoyment of fans.
- The NFL's economic system has basically nothing to do with why the NFL is so popular.
- The Los Angeles Clippers are legitimate contenders and have been the most unlucky team in NBA history when you evaluate PS opponents after factoring in RS performance.
- Dirk was better in 06 than 2011 and it is mainly myth that he made significant improvements to his game.


1. Extremely unpopular but factually correct .
2. Still an unpopular but correct opinion.
3. Still an unpopular opinion but factually correct.
4. LAC stopped being a contender after 15.
5. I don't think this is a unique view.
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Re: Your Unpopular Basketball Opinions? [PC Board Edition] 

Post#350 » by sp6r=underrated » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:53 pm

juice4080 wrote:
fpliii wrote:
juice4080 wrote:
yep...a guy like prime derek fisher fits the bill to a T....the most usage heavy pg i could want is someone around sam cassell level

How about Conley? Though he is looking to score a bit much in this postseason (not that Memphis has a ton of other options).


yep conley of the guys playing currently would be my optimal target.....we're thinking along the same lines


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Re: Your Unpopular Basketball Opinions? [PC Board Edition] 

Post#351 » by juice4080 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:55 pm

sp6r=underrated wrote:
juice4080 wrote:
fpliii wrote:How about Conley? Though he is looking to score a bit much in this postseason (not that Memphis has a ton of other options).


yep conley of the guys playing currently would be my optimal target.....we're thinking along the same lines


I assume you love this guy:

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i don't particularly like him but yes he's playing the type of role im looking for in a pg
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Re: Your Unpopular Basketball Opinions? [PC Board Edition] 

Post#352 » by Laimbeer » Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:04 pm

The PC Board vastly overrates the PC Board.
Comments to rationalize bad contracts -
1) It's less than the MLE
2) He can be traded later
3) It's only __% of the cap
4) The cap is going up
5) It's only __ years
6) He's a good mentor/locker room guy
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Re: Your Unpopular Basketball Opinions? [PC Board Edition] 

Post#353 » by GeneralManager » Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:58 pm

Millenials on this board are way too invested in their own generation's basketball players to the exclusion of anyone or anything else.

[Unpopular opinion, that is, for millenials.]
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Re: Your Unpopular Basketball Opinions? [PC Board Edition] 

Post#354 » by eminence » Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:18 pm

No such thing as ethical capitalism.

Basketball wise...
Draymond is a top 20 peak type player
Shooters and the spacing they provide is still underrated
With Sp6r on all the cap/contract stuff
I bought a boat.
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Re: Your Unpopular Basketball Opinions? [PC Board Edition] 

Post#355 » by Tinseltown » Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:37 pm

GeneralManager wrote:Millenials on this board are way too invested in their own generation's basketball players to the exclusion of anyone or anything else.

[Unpopular opinion, that is, for millenials.]

Didn't you make an entire account to troll LeBron on a basketball discussion board? That's real dedication.
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Re: Your Unpopular Basketball Opinions? [PC Board Edition] 

Post#356 » by sp6r=underrated » Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:41 pm

sp6r=underrated wrote:
juice4080 wrote:
fpliii wrote:How about Conley? Though he is looking to score a bit much in this postseason (not that Memphis has a ton of other options).


yep conley of the guys playing currently would be my optimal target.....we're thinking along the same lines


I assume you love this guy:

Image


Edit: I am a huge George Hill fan who thinks he has potential to go down among the greatest non all-stars in history. His reputation will be damaged because of how great Kawhi turned out but Indy made a smart trade at the time. George Hill is far better than the typical 15th pick.
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Re: Your Unpopular Basketball Opinions? [PC Board Edition] 

Post#357 » by Bruh Man » Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:41 pm

juice4080 wrote:
fpliii wrote:
juice4080 wrote:whether it's westbrook....wall...iverson.....paul......harden.....nash and whether they're pass first pg or shoot first pg.. i don't want any undersized intensive ball possession pg on my team...those players don't have an history of championship success so i'll pass on them and build my team through other means

What role do you want the PG to have on your team? A 3-and-D type guy with handles to run the offense for the second unit (assuming the starting lineup is staggered)?


yep...a guy like prime derek fisher fits the bill to a T....the most usage heavy pg i could want is someone around sam cassell level

I think billups is damn near perfect if you have a great offensive wing like mj/kobe/wade/lebron, I agree though that most of the time you don't want to build your team around a pg.
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Re: Your Unpopular Basketball Opinions? [PC Board Edition] 

Post#358 » by bondom34 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:48 pm

I don't think it's unpopular anymore, but I never thought Scott Brooks was a bad coach.
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Re: Your Unpopular Basketball Opinions? [PC Board Edition] 

Post#359 » by trex_8063 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:02 am

sp6r=underrated wrote:
- Playoffs are generally overvalued.
- 1995 Rockets are the worse title team since 1980 and had massive structural flaws. There playoff run to me is no different than that massive Hawks winning streak: a bunch of guys playing over their heads for a month and a half.
- 2009 and 2010 Magic were legitimate title contenders and are underappreciated because of Howard's behavior the last few years along with people reading too much into the 2010 ECF.
- Magic Johnson's peak was lower than KG and TD.
- The two best Spurs title teams (05 and 14) were as good or better than the best Showtime title team.
- Hakeem is closer to being out of the top 10 than a legitimate GOAT level player.
- RAPM is overvalued.
- Playoff on/off is of negligible value.


1. Still an unpopular but correct opinion.
2. Still an unpopular but correct opinion.
3. Still an unpopular but correct opinion.
4. I no longer hold this opinion.
5. I don't think this is a unique view.
6. Still an unpopular but correct opinion.
7. I don't think it is overvalued anymore.
8. Still an unpopular but correct opinion. People are now quoting game/quarter on/off which is even worse.



1. I agree. Obviously I give a single playoff game greater weight than a single rs game; but some people appear to place more weight on 10 playoff games than they do 82 rs games......which I emphatically disagree with.
2. More or less agree. I think the Rockets winning it in '95 was kinda like getting struck by lightning. Being hyperbolic, obviously, but I honestly think if we replay that season over 100 times, the Rockets walk away with the title <20% of the time (maybe <10%). I think there were multiple better contenders that season. I think the Suns were better contenders (and honestly, if not for a timely Mario Elie trey, we likely would have seen the Rockets knocked out in the conference semis by the Suns). If Dennis Rodman doesn't choose the absolute worst time to go toxic self-destruct (or otherwise just stop playing perimeter defense to allow Robert Horry clean look after clean look on the shortened 3pt line), the Spurs were otherwise a better contender. So those are question marks (among others) to the Rockets even getting to the finals in the first place. Once there, I think if Jordan doesn't have a rare whoopsy moment in the conference semis and the Bulls beat the Magic, I'm not sure the Rockets could have offed the Bulls in the finals. I think the Pacers would have had more than a punchers chance against the Rockets, too. I'll allow the Magic might give a better showing sometimes, too (or that Hakeem's supporting cast won't always shoot >40% 3pters)--->I know it was a 4-0 sweep, but I'd like to point out that the Rockets won one game by 2 pts in which Hakeem's cast hit 14/32 (43.8%) from 3pt range, and another game by 3 pts in which his cast hit 36.8% from 3pt while Shaq's cast hit just 8/31 (25.8%).......a miss here/a make there, and suddenly we have a 2-2 series.
3. Possibly agree. Don't have a strong opinion, tbh. Would have to think on it more.
4. I actually agree with your original position, which you apparently no longer hold. Not by a big margin, but I do rate his peak marginally below theirs.
5. Possibly agree. Don't have a strong opinion, tbh. Would have to think on it more. I do think that '14 Spurs team was fantastic.
6. Agree.
7. Possibly agree with your renewed perspective, with the proviso that we're not placing TOO much stock in it.
8. Agree. Raw on/off can have a crazy amount of line-up noise even with an entire season sample (Kawhi's defensive on/off this year).
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Re: Your Unpopular Basketball Opinions? [PC Board Edition] 

Post#360 » by bondom34 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:12 am

I think on/off has its merits, so I'd somewhat disagree there. I think over a larger sample at least its rather useful.
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