Chris Paul 21-22 Thread

[70sFan]

If the Suns had won it all this year, nobody would be saying it doesn't count for CP3's legacy because he's old. His fans would be touting him as the greatest point guard ever, ranking him above Curry, etc. and he would still be 37. You can't have it both ways.

Maybe his fans would that, but I find it unlikely that anybody among them is active here. Had Suns won the title in 2022, it would have been comparable addition to someone like 2014 Duncan or 1987 Kareem - great years, but they don't move a needle in top 20 ever discussions.

If a 37-year-old LeBron can get roasted mercilessly for missing the play-ins with the most dysfunctional franchise in the league, despite playing up to his usual standards on offense, then there's nothing wrong with criticizing a 37-year-old CP3 for having one of the ugliest playoff meltdowns in NBA history while putting up horrible individual performances

Maybe I am missing something, but nobody roasts LeBron here. James has a lot of fans on PC Board and I haven't seen anyone "roasting" him for missing play-ins. I am not active on James thread, so maybe I am missing something but LeBron thread is full of toxic discussions.

[Outside]

I can believe that Paul had a quad injury, but:

-- Everyone has something at this time of year.
-- No one is talking about Booker's hamstring or Luka's calf.
-- There was nothing about Paul's play that made you think he was hurt other than the fact that he stunk. It wasn't like last year when he obviously had a shoulder nerve issue and could barely lift his arm.
-- Did his quad prevent him from being a veteran leader? I don't recall him rallying the team or using his voice in huddles like his value as an ATG leader would suggest.
-- This just gives power to the "CP is always hurt in the postseason" narrative.

It's quite the fall from "why isn't he an MVP candidate?" in the RS and 14-for-14 and Luka-hunting Point God in the PS to this.

Does it affect his legacy? My brain tries to tell me no, but it also tells me that this late-career phase starting in OKC was boosting his legacy by showing the level of leadership and floor/ceiling raising that was countering the lack of PS success narratives that had dogged him. Fair or not, this tarnishes all the late-career legacy-boosting that was helping him.

[MartinToVaught]

I can believe that Paul had a quad injury, but:

-- Everyone has something at this time of year.
-- No one is talking about Booker's hamstring or Luka's calf.
-- There was nothing about Paul's play that made you think he was hurt other than the fact that he stunk. It wasn't like last year when he obviously had a shoulder nerve issue and could barely lift his arm.
-- Did his quad prevent him from being a veteran leader? I don't recall him rallying the team or using his voice in huddles like his value as an ATG leader would suggest.
-- This just gives power to the "CP is always hurt in the postseason" narrative.

Also, Suns fans just spent the past year saying that injuries are part of the game and can't be blamed for playoff losses. Using CP3's quad as an excuse after all that would be deeply hypocritical, especially since he still played the whole series, unlike AD, Murray, MPJ, Kawhi, Ibaka or Zion.

[Owly]

I can believe that Paul had a quad injury, but:

-- Everyone has something at this time of year.
-- No one is talking about Booker's hamstring or Luka's calf.
-- There was nothing about Paul's play that made you think he was hurt other than the fact that he stunk. It wasn't like last year when he obviously had a shoulder nerve issue and could barely lift his arm.
-- Did his quad prevent him from being a veteran leader? I don't recall him rallying the team or using his voice in huddles like his value as an ATG leader would suggest.
-- This just gives power to the "CP is always hurt in the postseason" narrative.

It's quite the fall from "why isn't he an MVP candidate?" in the RS and 14-for-14 and Luka-hunting Point God in the PS to this.

Does it affect his legacy? My brain tries to tell me no, but it also tells me that this late-career phase starting in OKC was boosting his legacy by showing the level of leadership and floor/ceiling raising that was countering the lack of PS success narratives that had dogged him. Fair or not, this tarnishes all the late-career legacy-boosting that was helping him.

As before this regards internal consistency, if someone was touting this as an MVP caliber year against this years field ... that playoff or series would be disappointing. Then again if someone was touting that I'd have concerns about their evaluation in the first place.

Maybe people have a better read on body language and that kind of stuff than me but ... I don't love the idea of post-hoc, they lost a series so therefore the intangibles were bad. If one genuinely is looking closely with expertise and it's a revised opinion from new information that happens to come out at this time ... maybe.

[GSP]

Just in a defensive rhythm.

Thybulle is my point of attack GOAT, but just look at this:

Read on Twitter

7 steals, 1 block, and this. I’ve never seen him with hands this good. Even in LAC, he was using his speed to make pick sixes. This is just flat out taking the basketball on literally the first dribble of the first dribble move, at will.

It’s about as insane as Curry running around catching and draining 3’s from every angle. It’s cheat code ish.

This was a 10+ deflections game. Absolutely insane.

Two things. Passing way more aggressively than any year I can remember. And he’s back to ball hawking on defense. His speed on breaking on the ball and his effort at the point of attack is far higher than last year.


I think having just .7 steals per game in the finals made him refocus on this. Shows how much in game ability is learned. It can be unlearned like his past two years.

Much better player than the past two years because of all this. I don’t think he was anything special in OKC or last year. I actually prefer in “bad year” in Houston because he could still play good defense then.

He’s barely not a top 10 kind of player so far IMO.

Read on Twitter

Where was Cp2-0s ball hawking defense in playoffs? He was a good defensive Pg by 9 all defense teams is a TRAVESTY

[jalengreen]

absolutely hilarious that all of NBA media today has just been filled with a role player **** talking a future hall of famer and a top ~30 player to ever play the game who is **37**

glad he's finally getting called out lmao this is absolutely embarrassing.

Read on Twitter

bev salty he got knocked out of the playoffs by cp3 last yr lol. remember him shoving cp3 from behind?

[MartinToVaught]

Pat is just saying what needed to be said about CP3 for years. It's not his fault that the media coddled CP3 his entire career and it was left up to a "role player" to state the facts that ESPN refuses to say themselves.

Also, the Suns and their fans don't deserve any sympathy for role players talking trash about them when their own roster is filled with annoying scrubs like Crowder and Cam Payne who have been talking crazy for the last two years. Remember when LeBron told Payne to shut up and stay humble because he was lucky to even be in the league? Players around the league talk to each other and the Suns have built a really toxic reputation for themselves.

[GSP]

Pat is just saying what needed to be said about CP3 for years. It's not his fault that the media coddled CP3 his entire career and it was left up to a "role player" to state the facts that ESPN refuses to say themselves.

Also, the Suns and their fans don't deserve any sympathy for role players talking trash about them when their own roster is filled with annoying scrubs like Crowder and Cam Payne who have been talking crazy for the last two years. Remember when LeBron told Payne to shut up and stay humble because he was lucky to even be in the league? Players around the league talk to each other and the Suns have built a really toxic reputation for themselves.

I don't even get why or how Cp3 became such a media darling? Notorious flopper, dirty player that tries to game the system. Frontrunner... I mean is it b/c he's 5'9 without shoes? I really don't get it even got ppl calling him that disgusting "point god" nickname

[MartinToVaught]

Pat is just saying what needed to be said about CP3 for years. It's not his fault that the media coddled CP3 his entire career and it was left up to a "role player" to state the facts that ESPN refuses to say themselves.

Also, the Suns and their fans don't deserve any sympathy for role players talking trash about them when their own roster is filled with annoying scrubs like Crowder and Cam Payne who have been talking crazy for the last two years. Remember when LeBron told Payne to shut up and stay humble because he was lucky to even be in the league? Players around the league talk to each other and the Suns have built a really toxic reputation for themselves.

I don't even get why or how Cp3 became such a media darling? Notorious flopper, dirty player that tries to game the system. Frontrunner... I mean is it b/c he's 5'9 without shoes? I really don't get it even got ppl calling him that disgusting "point god" nickname

CP3 sucks up to the media so they give him a pass. He's like the bully in school who gets away with it because they know how to suck up to all the teachers.

Plus his PR team is elite at branding his teammates as losers who don't have the "winning mentality" like CP3. They literally had casual fans convinced that prime Blake was a bum when he was the one raising his game in the playoffs while CP3 and Doc were choking. He somehow got all the blame when CP3 got shook by an ancient Jason Terry and Pablo Prigioni.

[jalengreen]

Pat is just saying what needed to be said about CP3 for years. It's not his fault that the media coddled CP3 his entire career and it was left up to a "role player" to state the facts that ESPN refuses to say themselves.

Also, the Suns and their fans don't deserve any sympathy for role players talking trash about them when their own roster is filled with annoying scrubs like Crowder and Cam Payne who have been talking crazy for the last two years. Remember when LeBron told Payne to shut up and stay humble because he was lucky to even be in the league? Players around the league talk to each other and the Suns have built a really toxic reputation for themselves.

the facts about cp3? like talking about cp3's antics which bev participates in himself?

or bev trying to speak for all NBA players about how CP3 is viewed? and then getting refuted by another player far above his stature?

i dont see any stars coming in and saying "oh facts that's how we all view cp3" but i sure see dame shutting it down and calling out bev. kinda hurts bev's entire basis of speaking for all players lmfao (especially when those same players voted CP3 as NBPA president for a decade span. weird decision if they hated him all that much)

bev embarrassed himself just like he did here:

Watch on YouTube

once again, just salty that he got dropped off.

[jalengreen]

when the supposed spokesperson and voice of reason for your anti-cp3 stance is ... pat beverley ... i'd personally step back and re-assess.

[MartinToVaught]

You're just attacking Bev personally, not the substance of his arguments. He could be the worst basketball player in the history of the world and it wouldn't change the fact that he's right about CP3 not being as scary as other stars in the playoffs and, more importantly, never getting held to the same exacting standards as his peers. It must be grating for other star players around the league to get vilified after every playoff loss regardless of context while CP3 skips away from some of the most horrific collapses in NBA history with no blame.

If Pat is just salty, why isn't he salty at Luka? Luka roasted him so badly last year that we had to bench him for the series, which you'd think would be deeply embarrassing to him. All CP3 did was start frontrunning in Game 6 when our exhausted and injured team finally ran out of gas.

[Lost92Bricks]

You're just attacking Bev personally, not the substance of his arguments. He could be the worst basketball player in the history of the world and it wouldn't change the fact that he's right about CP3 not being as scary as other stars in the playoffs and, more importantly, never getting held to the same exacting standards as his peers. It must be grating for other star players around the league to get vilified after every playoff loss regardless of context while CP3 skips away from some of the most horrific collapses in NBA history with no blame.

If Pat is just salty, why isn't he salty at Luka? Luka roasted him so badly last year that we had to bench him for the series, which you'd think would be deeply embarrassing to him. All CP3 did was start frontrunning in Game 6 when our exhausted and injured team finally ran out of gas.

When your team is exhausted and injured it's a valid excuse.

When Paul, an actual small, injury prone player gets exhausted and injured it doesn't count.

You backing Beverly says alot about you. The guy is obviously bitter from losing the WCF to Chris last year.

Plus his PR team is elite at branding his teammates as losers who don't have the "winning mentality" like CP3. They literally had casual fans convinced that prime Blake was a bum when he was the one raising his game in the playoffs while CP3 and Doc were choking. He somehow got all the blame when CP3 got shook by an ancient Jason Terry and Pablo Prigioni.

And this is just ridiculous. Griffin in the playoffs was not a factor at all.

[Bergmaniac]

You're just attacking Bev personally, not the substance of his arguments.

What arguments? Bev said blatant nonsense like Paul being a cone on defense and unable to guard anyone.

[coastalmarker99]

Anyone saying Blake Giffin wasn't a factor in the playoffs when he played with CP3 is completely lying.

In his 2015 playoff run alone, he averaged 26 ppg, 13 rpg, and 6 APG which is outstanding.

Plus in the 2014 playoffs he averaged 23PPG ,7RPG and 4 APG which is also outstanding.

[parsnips33]

When Ja dropped 47, Bev tweeted out like "at least we never let him get 47" as if he didn't just get eliminated

You don't go to him for well reasoned analysis, you go to him for elite hating. And he certainly provided

[MartinToVaught]

Griffin in the playoffs was not a factor at all.

Tearing CP3's teammates down with absurd statements like this will not add rings to CP3's fingers or MVPs to his trophy case, nor will it erase his historic chokejobs. It just makes you look deeply insecure about your guy's legacy.

[Texas Chuck]

I can believe that Paul had a quad injury, but:

-- Everyone has something at this time of year.
-- No one is talking about Booker's hamstring or Luka's calf.
-- There was nothing about Paul's play that made you think he was hurt other than the fact that he stunk. It wasn't like last year when he obviously had a shoulder nerve issue and could barely lift his arm.
-- Did his quad prevent him from being a veteran leader? I don't recall him rallying the team or using his voice in huddles like his value as an ATG leader would suggest.
-- This just gives power to the "CP is always hurt in the postseason" narrative.

It's quite the fall from "why isn't he an MVP candidate?" in the RS and 14-for-14 and Luka-hunting Point God in the PS to this.

Does it affect his legacy? My brain tries to tell me no, but it also tells me that this late-career phase starting in OKC was boosting his legacy by showing the level of leadership and floor/ceiling raising that was countering the lack of PS success narratives that had dogged him. Fair or not, this tarnishes all the late-career legacy-boosting that was helping him.

So you clearly aren't here like some others just to troll Paul. So what is your explanation for his play falling off a cliff if not injury? Is it Dallas switching the matchup and he just couldn't handle Dorian Finney-Smith?

As to how any of this defines or doesn't his legacy is for everyone to decide for themselves. But I'm finding myself disturbed by the tenor of the conversation around Paul without anyone offering up any explanation other than "choker". Is that what you think he did?

[coastalmarker99]

Griffin in the playoffs was not a factor at all.

Tearing CP3's teammates down with absurd statements like this will not add rings to CP3's fingers or MVPs to his trophy case, nor will it erase his historic chokejobs. It just makes you look deeply insecure about your guy's legacy.

According to the CP3 fanboys on this site.


It is Griffin's fault that CP3 had one of the worst meltdowns of all time in game 5 against OKC in 2014 which may have cost the Clippers a chance to make the finals that year.

Watch on YouTube

;t=26s

[falcolombardi]

Griffin in the playoffs was not a factor at all.

Tearing CP3's teammates down with absurd statements like this will not add rings to CP3's fingers or MVPs to his trophy case, nor will it erase his historic chokejobs. It just makes you look deeply insecure about your guy's legacy.

there is somethongh to be said about griffing not lifting cp3-less lineups tho

i have ran the numbers on this for the series clippers lost, and in average clippers dominated the chris paul minutes with absurd offense, while losing the griffin minutes

which doesnt mean griffin was bad, but it hints at clippers only being good with chris paul regardless of griffin playing or not

in general clippers 2013-2017 struggled with defense (jamal crawford lineups were terrible in particular on botj ends) and not being destroyed when cp3 went to the bench