RealGM Top 100 List #13

[ceiling raiser]

I'm not sure if I'll be voting in the runoff, but I don't know how I feel about Malone as a candidate. I would lean Kobe here, but I haven't thought too much about this particular comparison.

Kobe has great longevity, but it's an advantage for Malone. Malone is a big man, but the two things I most like to see from a big--anchoring your defense and shot creation from the low post--aren't things he exhibited as much as I'd like (the two big men I was considering for my vote, Dirk who I ultimately settled on and Robinson, both were terrific in at least one of the two). While I shouldn't weight stylistic considerations too much, I think both are vital in assembling a strong team, and if you're not getting one from one of your bigs, it becomes more difficult to find those parts on your roster, since they're traditional big man traits. So if you go with a specialist, you're probably going to congest the paint, when you really don't want much more than one player without some semblance of 3pt range on the floor in today's league. So while portability isn't one of Kobe's extreme strengths, it isn't for Malone either IMO. Just my thinking at the moment.

Don't forget, Kobe is an exceptional post player too.

Spoiler:

2005:
Garnett:
Post-up Derived offense (includes pass outs): 1.022 PPP on 740 poss
Single covered post-ups: 1.043 PPP on 555 poss
Pass outs: 1.084 PPP on 155 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0.300 PPP on 30 poss

Duncan:
Post-up Derived offense: 0.981 PPP on 627 poss
Single covered post-ups: 0.938 PPP on 470 poss
Pass outs: 1.288 PPP on 125 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0.406 PPP on 32 poss

Dirk:
Post-up Derived offense: 0.887 PPP on 222 poss
Single covered post-ups: 0.915 PPP on 177 poss
Pass outs: 1.00 PPP on 33 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0.167 PPP on 12 poss


Kobe:
Post-up Derived offense: 0.966 PPP on 205 poss
Single covered post-ups: 0.969 PPP on 161 poss
Pass outs: 1.188 PPP on 32 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0.333 PPP on 12 poss


2006:
Garnett:
Post-up Derived offense: 1.034 PPP on 730 poss
Single covered post-ups: 1.049 PPP on 574 poss
Pass outs: 1.08 PPP on 138 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0.222 PPP on 18 poss

Duncan:
Post-up Derived offense: 0.952 PPP on 834 poss
Single covered post-ups: 0.903 PPP on 636 poss
Pass outs: 1.269 PPP on 171 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0.111 PPP on 27 poss

Dirk:
Post-up Derived offense: 1.012 PPP on 328 poss
Single covered post-ups: 1.048 PPP on 272 poss
Pass outs: 1.000 PPP on 47 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0 PPP on 9 poss

Kobe:
Post-up Derived offense: 0.981 PPP on 261 poss
Single covered post-ups: 0.941 PPP on 205 poss
Pass outs: 1.260 PPP on 50 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0 PPP on 6 poss

2007:
Garnett:
Post-up Derived offense: 1.080 PPP on 511 poss
Single covered post-ups: 1.068 PPP on 470 poss
Pass outs: 1.351 PPP on 37 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0 PPP on 4 poss

Duncan:
Post-up Derived offense: 0.992 PPP on 864 poss
Single covered post-ups: 1.036 PPP on 669 poss
Pass outs: 0.988 PPP on 164 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0.065 PPP on 31 poss

Dirk:
Post-up Derived offense: 1.033 PPP on 300 poss
Single covered post-ups: 1.036 PPP on 224 poss
Pass outs: 1.219 PPP on 64 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0 PPP on 4 poss

Kobe:
Post-up Derived offense: 1.039 PPP on 229 poss
Single covered post-ups: 1.055 PPP on 183 poss
Pass outs: 1.216 PPP on 37 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0 PPP on 9 poss


2008:
Garnett:
Post-up Derived offense: 1.060 PPP on 580 poss
Single covered post-ups: 1.038 PPP on 472 poss
Pass outs: 1.263 PPP on 99 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0 PPP on 9 poss

Duncan:
Post-up Derived offense: 0.957 PPP on 678 poss
Single covered post-ups: 0.948 PPP on 600 poss
Pass outs: 1.159 PPP on 63 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0.467 PPP on 15 poss

Dirk:
Post-up Derived offense: 1.021 PPP on 389 poss
Single covered post-ups: 1.045 PPP on 308 poss
Pass outs: 1.071 PPP on 70 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0 PPP on 11 poss

Kobe:
Post-up Derived offense: 1.102 PPP on 266 poss
Single covered post-ups: 1.042 PPP on 212 poss
Pass outs: 1.412 PPP on 51 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0 PPP on 3 poss


2009:
Garnett:
Post-up Derived offense: 0.993 PPP on 290 poss
Single covered post-ups: 0.953 PPP on 254 poss
Pass outs: 1.484 PPP on 31 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0 PPP on 5 poss

Duncan:
Post-up Derived offense: 1.010 PPP on 675 poss
Single covered post-ups: 0.982 PPP on 563 poss
Pass outs: 1.250 PPP on 96 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0.563 PPP on 16 poss

Dirk:
Post-up Derived offense: 0.998 PPP on 549 poss
Single covered post-ups: 1.000 PPP on 454 poss
Pass outs: 1.173 PPP on 75 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0.300 PPP on 20 poss

Kobe:
Post-up Derived offense: 1.035 PPP on 340 poss
Single covered post-ups: 1.039 PPP on 285 poss
Pass outs: 1.125 PPP on 48 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0.286 PPP on 7 poss

2010:
Garnett
Post-up Derived offense: 0.912 PPP on 363 poss
Single covered post-ups: 0.890 PPP on 291 poss
Pass outs: 1.094 PPP on 64 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0.250 PPP on 8 poss

Duncan
Post-up Derived offense: 1.086 PPP on 725 poss
Single covered post-ups: 1.070 PPP on 557 poss
Pass outs: 1.250 PPP on 148 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0.300 PPP on 20 poss

Dirk
Post-up Derived offense: 1.061 PPP on 603 poss
Single covered post-ups: 1.081 PPP on 471 poss
Pass outs: 1.139 PPP on 108 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0.333 PPP on 24 poss

Kobe
Post-up Derived offense: 1.058 PPP on 590 poss
Single covered post-ups: 1.002 PPP on 431 poss
Pass outs: 1.309 PPP on 139 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0.500 PPP on 20 poss

2011:
Garnett
Post-up Derived offense: 1.011 PPP on 374 poss
Single covered post-ups: 1.035 PPP on 288 poss
Pass outs: 1.059 PPP on 68 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0.444 PPP on 18 poss

Duncan
Post-up Derived offense: 0.977 PPP on 432 poss
Single covered post-ups: 0.948 PPP on 344 poss
Pass outs: 1.227 PPP on 75 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0.308 PPP on 13 poss

Dirk
Post-up Derived offense: 1.154 PPP on 494 poss
Single covered post-ups: 1.170 PPP on 389 poss
Pass outs: 1.178 PPP on 90 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0.600 PPP on 15 poss

Kobe
Post-up Derived offense: 1.022 PPP on 409 poss
Single covered post-ups: 1.007 PPP on 300 poss
Pass outs: 1.125 PPP on 96 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0.615 PPP on 13 poss

2012:
Garnett
Post-up Derived offense: 0.987 PPP on 371 poss
Single covered post-ups: 0.990 PPP on 286 poss
Pass outs: 1.203 PPP on 69 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0 PPP on 16 poss

Duncan
Post-up Derived offense: 0.855 PPP on 358 poss
Single covered post-ups: 0.837 PPP on 294 poss
Pass outs: 1.091 PPP on 55 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0 PPP on 9 poss

Dirk
Post-up Derived offense: 0.991 PPP on 446 poss
Single covered post-ups: 0.953 PPP on 340 poss
Pass outs: 1.282 PPP on 78 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0.643 PPP on 28 poss

Kobe
Post-up Derived offense: 0.914 PPP on 431 poss
Single covered post-ups: 0.935 PPP on 308 poss
Pass outs: 1.077 PPP on 91 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0.250 PPP on 32 poss


2013:
Garnett
Post-up Derived offense: 0.978 PPP on 416 poss
Single covered post-ups: 0.946 PPP on 313 poss
Pass outs: 1.165 PPP on 91 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0.417 PPP on 12 poss

Duncan
Post-up Derived offense: 0.955 PPP on 423 poss
Single covered post-ups: 0.966 PPP on 328 poss
Pass outs: 1.039 PPP on 77 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0.389 PPP on 18 poss

Dirk
Post-up Derived offense: 1.069 PPP on 304 poss
Single covered post-ups: 1.051 PPP on 215 poss
Pass outs: 1.221 PPP on 77 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0.417 PPP on 12 poss

Kobe
Post-up Derived offense: 1.081 PPP on 431 poss
Single covered post-ups: 1.123 PPP on 243 poss
Pass outs: 1.140 PPP on 150 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0.579 PPP on 38 poss


2014:
Garnett
Post-up Derived offense: 0.806 PPP on 93 poss
Single covered post-ups: 0.861 PPP on 72 poss
Pass outs: 0.650 PPP on 20 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0 PPP on 1 poss

Duncan
Post-up Derived offense: 0.917 PPP on 435 poss
Single covered post-ups: 0.953 PPP on 342 poss
Pass outs: 1.017 PPP on 58 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0.400 PPP on 35 poss

Dirk
Post-up Derived offense: 1.079 PPP on 682 poss
Single covered post-ups: 1.116 PPP on 490 poss
Pass outs: 1.135 PPP on 148 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0.477 PPP on 44 poss

Kobe
Post-up Derived offense: 1.158 PPP on 38 poss
Single covered post-ups: 0.870 PPP on 23 poss
Pass outs: 1.846 PPP on 13 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0 PPP on 2 poss

Absolutely. As I've said a few times, I'm a huge fan of players working on their games in the offseason. Hooking up with Grover in 07 (to put on muscle) and Hakeem in 09 was huge (working on footwork and counter moves, especially since he lost some of his tremendous athleticism that year).

I still think 06 and 07 are perhaps his best offensive seasons, but Kobe from 08-10 is generally pretty underrated. I'm admittedly a huge skillset guy, and Kobe had so many weapons at his disposal during those three Finals runs.

[DannyNoonan1221]

I thought I was keeping up on my phone on the road, but apparently that was wishful thinking on my part.

I was going to vote for Moses. Oh well. Don't know if I will vote in the run off. I am leaning Kobe. The two seem extremely close. But I am limited on internet and time until monday night.

Longevity- I think Malone takes this. Too many years with great stats and little injuries
Peak- again, Malone- but only because of his defensive impact (has the advantage of the impact his position has over the impact a guard does at that end)
Success- Kobe easily.
Teammate Quality- Malone. Not how good were their teammates, but how good of a teammate karl/kobe were.

Well, maybe i should edit my statement above. I guess I would vote for Malone if i were to vote/my vote were to count. I would love to see someone try to control for media/market influence on players. I would assume Kobe would either be at the top or right at the top in this category- straight out of high school, jordan comparisons, playing in LA, winning 3 straight early on in his career (thanks to Shaq), etc.

vs Malone, playing in Utah with a white SuperStar point guard- not sure if you could find a worse match for a black player to overcome. Add to that his team's two finals appearances were against jordan. Whether you actually believe Malone deserved the MVP over Jordan, there has been plenty of analysis here supporting a very strong argument that Kobe was never the hands-down best player in the league in any of his seasons. For Karl to get his over Jordan is pretty damn impressive.

I guess I will put it in bold just in case it does matter. My run-off vote is for Karl Malone

[SactoKingsFan]

I was planning on voting for Dr J over Kobe due to his superior peak, impressive prime, underrated defense and GOAT level 76 playoffs. Looks like it wouldn't have really mattered anyway unless a couple other voters went with Dr J.

I'll go with Kobe over K. Malone in the run-off. In addition to preferring his overall skill set, I'm more impressed with Kobe as an offensive anchor, playmaker and playoff performer.

run-off vote: Kobe Bryant

[Notanoob]

My runoff vote is for Kobe Bryant. Superior peak play, and that's what matters to me.

I'm worried that once Nash, Zeke and Stockton get in that no one will be interested in the discussion anymore, because those are the most controversial guys.

I guess that means I'll have to strategically vote against them every round to keep the project moving.

Need a bit more analysis for this vote to count

[Baller2014]

My runoff vote is for Kobe Bryant. Superior peak play, and that's what matters to me.

I'm worried that once Nash, Zeke and Stockton get in that no one will be interested in the discussion anymore, because those are the most controversial guys.

I guess that means I'll have to strategically vote against them every round to keep the project moving.

I posted Karl's peak v.s Kobe's on the previous page. Not sure how Kobe's was superior. Karl Malone has better stats across the board, and plays crunchingly effective man D, post D and acts as an enforcer on D.

[SactoKingsFan]

My runoff vote is for Kobe Bryant. Superior peak play, and that's what matters to me.

I'm worried that once Nash, Zeke and Stockton get in that no one will be interested in the discussion anymore, because those are the most controversial guys.

I guess that means I'll have to strategically vote against them every round to keep the project moving.

Wade, Pettit and Walton could be pretty controversial.

[Baller2014]

My runoff vote is for Kobe Bryant. Superior peak play, and that's what matters to me.

I'm worried that once Nash, Zeke and Stockton get in that no one will be interested in the discussion anymore, because those are the most controversial guys.

I guess that means I'll have to strategically vote against them every round to keep the project moving.

Wade, Pettit and Walton could be pretty controversial.

Mikan is going to get nominated 30+ times in a row by a few die hards, only to get knocked back every time. After that point hopefully a mercy killing rule will be put into effect retrospectively, and we can exclude the post shot clock era. It's going to be ugly unfortunately, because most voters are going to take the position Mikan belongs nowhere in he top 100, and people using different criteria are probably going to be outraged.

[Moonbeam]

I really appreciate the posts about Dr. J, drza and Clyde Frazier! They are very informative.

[Moonbeam]

My favorite player, Adrian Dantley, may turn out to be controversial, too. Lots of those 80s SFs may be in fact (Bernard King and to a lesser extent Dominique Wilkins and Alex English).

[rich316]

Run-off vote: Kobe Bryant.

Kobe was my 1B choice at this spot, so I'm happy to vote for him in the runoff. I think he is more portable than Malone, due to skillset, and having him on your team just gives you a better shot at winning. Malone has gotten more love higher than I expected for him - something about his combination of skills just don't seem to translate to winning at the highest level in basketball. I'm not sure you can realistically be a consistent contender if your team is built around a big man who doesn't exert a universal defensive presence and also doesn't score at elite efficiency. Given enough bigman support,the combo scoring/creating wing is a proven model as the #1 option on title teams, across eras. I'm not sure we've ever really seen a player with K. Malone's skillset be the top dog on a title team, although I could be wrong. For all K. Malone's longevity and seemingly ideal running mate at PG, it just strikes me as strange that the Jazz only had a brief window of real contention, in a conference that didn't have any truly dominant teams during that time.

Kobe's shortcomings as a teammate have been much-discussed, and are the main reason I went with Dirk in my original vote. I think the gap between him and Malone in basketball value is pretty clear, and enough to ignore those shortcomings in this runoff.

[semi-sentient]

Kobe (2010)
Post-up Derived offense: 1.058 PPP on 590 poss
Single covered post-ups: 1.002 PPP on 431 poss
Pass outs: 1.309 PPP on 139 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0.500 PPP on 20 poss

That's a crazy amount for a guard, especially when you consider he missed 9 games that season. Do you have numbers for some of the other top wing players?

[colts18]

While I'm leaning towards Kobe, I am concerned about his lack of clutch. It's not like his clutch abilities were higher than Malone's. I don't trust Malone vs good defenses, but I'm not a huge fan of Kobe vs good defenses either because he has a tendency of playing hero ball vs them.










This is what Peak Kobe did in elimination games against top 5 defense

19-7-3, 3 tov per 36 minutes
35 FG%, 27 3P%, .474 TS%


Here is a post from Lorak/DavidStern on Kobe's elimination game woes

Dr Mufasa,
you are talking about Karl's collapses, but lets look at some of Kobe's poor performances in elimination games:

2002 - G7 vs Kings (10/26 FG)
2003 - G6 vs Spurs (9/19 FG, 7 tov)
2004 - G5 vs Pistons (7/21 FG)
2006 - G7 vs Suns (no will to fight in 2nd half; lost 3-1 lead)
2008 - G6 vs Celtics (again no will to fight in 2nd half; 7/22 FG)
2009 - G7 vs Rockets (4/12 FG)
2010 - G7 vs Celtics (6/24 FG)
2011 - G4 vs Mavs

That's even worse than what Malone did.

[Warspite]

Yeah, I'm not getting the Karl Malone stuff right now. His regular season resume is very impressive, but from a team-building perspective, I don't think you can take a guy this high who is a volume-scoring big on not-awesome efficiency who isn't a defensive anchor (who isn't Dirk!). Historically, we've just seen that those types of players aren't the most valuable. Volume scoring is more useful from a wing, because it is less set-up dependent and usually leads to more shot creation for teammates, or from a big on super-efficiency.

This is between three guys for me: West, Dirk, and Kobe. Kobe and West are the more comparable players, and I'll start between those two.

Kobe v. West: I think they are probably comparable as volume scorers, on pretty much equivalent efficiency in their respective eras. However, I think there is a valid question as to how effective West could be at 6 foot 2 inches, 175 lb. in the modern era. I've compared him to a "Wade with more range and better intangibles," but a lot of what made Wade so effective was the 30 lbs he had over West. I'm not sure you could replicate West's impact in the 1960s, which was an era where the build of a marathoner was preferred, over the 80s through now, which is when more bulk is pretty much needed to be an all-around perimeter scoring threat. This isn't a huge deal for me, as trans-era portability isn't a big criteria in my votes, but it's something to think about when making the West/Wade comparison.

For all his much-discussed inefficiency, this must be recognized for Kobe: he was the dominant perimeter scorer in what's likely the toughest NBA era for perimeter scorers. Nonetheless, even as a player who was probably as focused-on by defenses as any other in league history in his prime, he put up respectable TS% numbers at big volume. He was also an underrated shot-creator, with probably more raw talent than Jordan (but less than West) in that respect, although that came and went with his confidence in his teammates - which is his biggest flaw. I think I have to take Kobe, though, for both longevity and physical makeup reasons.

West v. Dirk: This is a tough comparison, but my first big takeaway is this: West played a lot fewer games than Dirk, through the same-aged years of their primes. That matters a lot at this level of player, especially in cross-era comparisons, because every season of 15+ missed games (and West had quite a few of those) is a handful of games your team will lose because your superstar isn't going. Their volume and efficiency is comparable, but of course with Dirk, what he's giving to your offense by virtue of his position/skills blend is something you don't get from any scoring guard. His floor spacing/defense distortion is something that West, or really anybody else, can't replicate. I really like that both players were able to adapt their games and change as they got older. I think Dirk is the winner here.

Dirk v. Kobe: Great, great match-up, the winner of which will get my vote. Both are "kill you from anywhere inside halfcourt" kind of guys, although to his credit, Dirk focused his game closer to the hoop as he got older, while Kobe never really fell out of love with the 3-pointer. Although Kobe can be the more creative passer, Dirk is more consistent about getting his teammates involved. What really shines for me with Dirk is how seamlessly he has been able to thrive with a rotating cast of veterans in his late prime in Dallas. In contrast, it seemed that Kobe needed the perfect cast around him to be his best. When he had that cast, he killed it, but Dirk gives you a spacing/offensive edge that simply can't be replicated by a high-volume guard with iffy efficiency.

Vote for #13: Dirk Nowitzki.

West is 6'5" his listed height is in incorrect. Oscar is listed at 6'5" but he is taller than Scottie Pippen.

[RayBan-Sematra]

West is 6'5" his listed height is in incorrect. Oscar is listed at 6'5" but he is taller than Scottie Pippen.

Yeah I agree about West.
I have recently seen a pic of West and Kobe standing shoulder to shoulder on the court and they appear to be practically the same height. Maybe a 1 inch edge to Kobe.
Also I think West has longer arms then Kobe. They looked crazy long in the pic.

Oscar taller then Pippen? That is surprising. He always appeared kind of short to me in pictures.

[Warspite]

West is 6'5" his listed height is in incorrect. Oscar is listed at 6'5" but he is taller than Scottie Pippen.

Yeah I agree about West.
I have recently seen a pic of West and Kobe standing shoulder to shoulder on the court and they appear to be practically the same height. Maybe a 1 inch edge to Kobe.
Also I think West has longer arms then Kobe. They looked crazy long in the pic.

Oscar taller then Pippen? That is surprising. He always appeared kind of short to me in pictures.

Pippen is skinnier and wears pinstripes. I had the opportunity to meet Oscar in a room with about 300 former and current NBA players. Oscar is a big man. For any player that played before the 80s its just best to add 2 inches. With West he said in a recent interview that he is still upset that he never got the listed height corrected. Anyone notice at the Espys that DrJ was bit bigger than Melo? Yet melo plays PF and DrJ is said to be too small to play SF today.

Run off vote for Kobe:

I just dont get the K Malone love although I think he was trashed undeservedly in the past

[Clyde Frazier]

West is 6'5" his listed height is in incorrect. Oscar is listed at 6'5" but he is taller than Scottie Pippen.

Yeah I agree about West.
I have recently seen a pic of West and Kobe standing shoulder to shoulder on the court and they appear to be practically the same height. Maybe a 1 inch edge to Kobe.
Also I think West has longer arms then Kobe. They looked crazy long in the pic.

Oscar taller then Pippen? That is surprising. He always appeared kind of short to me in pictures.

Pippen is skinnier and wears pinstripes. I had the opportunity to meet Oscar in a room with about 300 former and current NBA players. Oscar is a big man. For any player that played before the 80s its just best to add 2 inches. With West he said in a recent interview that he is still upset that he never got the listed height corrected. Anyone notice at the Espys that DrJ was bit bigger than Melo? Yet melo plays PF and DrJ is said to be too small to play SF today.

Run off vote for Kobe:

I just dont get the K Malone love although I think he was trashed undeservedly in the past

Do you have a link to anyone saying Dr. J would be too small to play the 3 in today's NBA? I've never heard anyone say that. His hands are huge (think: kawhi / greek freak) and he's as long as anyone. He'd clearly be fine as a SF today.

[Quotatious]

It's certainly close, closer than I'd thought before, but I'm still going with Kobe Bryant in the run-off. Malone's postseason struggles may be a bit exaggerated, but to me, it's still pretty clear that Bryant was a better playoff performer, more reliable #1 option at the biggest stage of basketball. Both guys played about 200 playoff games in their careers, so the sample size is pretty big...Karl gets the edge as a regular season player, but Kobe's advantage in the playoffs is IMO a little more significant.

[Owly]

Not that it's a given Utah win game 7, but had a couple of calls gone differently
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGSiEEpF3WM[/youtube]
and the Jazz win game 6 and then take game 7 on their home court in '98, does that (particularly with beating MJ, i.e. going through MJ and in a full basketball season MJ) affect how we view him (and also perhaps Stockton)?

For me I don't think it does but I think it might affect the general perception (the through MJ thing).

[FJS]

I, m still with karl malone in the run off. You can't be wrong with either. It's pretty close.

[john248]

Absolutely. As I've said a few times, I'm a huge fan of players working on their games in the offseason. Hooking up with Grover in 07 (to put on muscle) and Hakeem in 09 was huge (working on footwork and counter moves, especially since he lost some of his tremendous athleticism that year).

I still think 06 and 07 are perhaps his best offensive seasons, but Kobe from 08-10 is generally pretty underrated. I'm admittedly a huge skillset guy, and Kobe had so many weapons at his disposal during those three Finals runs.

Yea, I just like the fact that Kobe still works on his game even after winning a championship. He gained 15 lbs of muscle in 02. Prior to that, in high school, he worked with God Shammgod with his ball handling.