'15-16 RealGM Player of the Year Discussion Thread

colts18 · Post #361 » by **colts18** » Tue May 10, 2016 2:28 pm

Anyone here willing to vote Green #2? He is averaging 18/10/7, 58 TS%, 10 BPM in these playoffs and proved that he can have success on his own team. He is clearly a top 5 player in the league.

lorak · Post #362 » by **lorak** » Tue May 10, 2016 2:32 pm

^
He will be no 2 or 1 on my list...

HeartBreakKid · Post #363 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Tue May 10, 2016 2:42 pm

I don't think it's all that clear he is a top 5 player in the league. I don't really get what his argument is over Leonard, CP3, James, Thunder duo - the plus minus thing?

He's more along the level of Paul George in my opinion.

The Warriors w/o Curry played the Rockets and Blazers, two teams with bad defenses - and if Curry did not come back last night the Green lead Warriors probably would be 2-2 against a first round caliber team. I think there is still a lot more to be seen if I'm willing to say that someone like Draymond Green is clearly a better player than Kevin Durant.

I'm not very convinced that a Green lead Warriors would beat a Paul lead Clippers, Stephen Curry is still the carry on that team, and I don't think Green is all that close to him.

Keep in mind, during the RS there were 6 MVP level candidates, saying that Green is clearly a top 5 player pretty much means you're saying he is significantly better than someone like Russell Westbrook.

lorak · Post #364 » by **lorak** » Tue May 10, 2016 3:37 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:I don't think it's all that clear he is a top 5 player in the league. I don't really get what his argument is over Leonard, CP3, James, Thunder duo - the plus minus thing?

+/-, box score, optical tracking, games watching... basically everything.

We know that all around players like Odom, AK or Bobby Jones were very impactful. We also know that defenders like Rodman, KG, Unseld or Russell were extremely valuable. It seems that bigs with spacing ability (from Sikma, through Laimbeer, to Rasheed) are surprisingly helpful on offense too. And Green is like one player with all these qualities combined + he adds elite playmaking (not even Lamar was as good playmaker). No wonder he is unique in all time sense. And from mental, bb IQ side of the game he also looks great. He is kind of like Westbrook with his will to win, but smarter - that postgame interview after G3 tells a lot. Any doubts I had about him in regular season are now mostly gone after these 2 rounds.

Post #365 » by **bondom34** » Tue May 10, 2016 4:04 pm

Well none of the voters got cute at least for the MVP.

HeartBreakKid · Post #366 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Tue May 10, 2016 4:05 pm

bondom34 wrote:Well none of the voters got cute at least for the MVP.

Was it unanimously ?

Post #367 » by **bondom34** » Tue May 10, 2016 4:05 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:
bondom34 wrote:Well none of the voters got cute at least for the MVP.

Was it unanimously ?

Yep.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ErikHorneOK/status/730066075979649024[/tweet]

HeartBreakKid · Post #368 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Tue May 10, 2016 4:07 pm

Wow, Leonard and James were neck to neck.

Post #369 » by **bondom34** » Tue May 10, 2016 4:08 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:Wow, Leonard and James were neck to neck.

Now to dig into this:

http://official.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2016/04/2015-16-Most-Valuable-Player.pdf

Post #370 » by **Texas Chuck** » Tue May 10, 2016 4:10 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:Wow, Leonard and James were neck to neck.

and Westbrook crushed Durant.

and 2 voters thought that GSW had the two most valuable players in the league.

Post #371 » by **bondom34** » Tue May 10, 2016 4:13 pm

Nothing too shocking to me.

Post #372 » by **bondom34** » Tue May 10, 2016 4:25 pm

Simmons trolling OKC a bit methinks.

Post #373 » by **Texas Chuck** » Tue May 10, 2016 4:28 pm

bondom34 wrote:Simmons trolling OKC a bit methinks.

I mean its tough to leave both guys out for sure, but Green and Paul aren't undeserving of top 5 slots either imo. 7 guys had great years.

Post #374 » by **bondom34** » Tue May 10, 2016 4:29 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
bondom34 wrote:Simmons trolling OKC a bit methinks.

I mean its tough to leave both guys out for sure, but Green and Paul aren't undeserving of top 5 slots either imo. 7 guys had great years.

True, but seems odd that the one guy who notably leaves both off is... :lol:

lorak · Post #375 » by **lorak** » Tue May 10, 2016 4:52 pm

bondom34 wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:Wow, Leonard and James were neck to neck.

Now to dig into this:

http://official.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2016/04/2015-16-Most-Valuable-Player.pdf

That might be the reason, why Curry was unanimous choice - no one wanted to look stupid.

EDIT
well...

Interesting side note: Kawhi won DPOY and finished 2nd in MVP. He was named on 129 of 130 ballots for DPOY and on 122 of 131 ballots for MVP. The guy who left him off of his DPOY ballot (who gave a 3rd place vote to Trevor Ariza) also completely omitted Kawhi from the MVP ballot (but gave James Harden a 3rd place vote).

That guy is Rockets TV dude Bill Worrell

Post #376 » by **Clyde Frazier** » Tue May 10, 2016 5:00 pm

bondom34 wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:Wow, Leonard and James were neck to neck.

Now to dig into this:

http://official.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2016/04/2015-16-Most-Valuable-Player.pdf

Even with the transparency of voting, I’m still pretty surprised we didn’t get 1 or 2 crazies looking for attention by voting someone else #1. I guess the few that would came to terms with the fact that they’d get torn apart publicly. And maybe 73 wins pushed it over the top. I see Ron “Steph isn’t a top 3 PG” Thompson wasn’t fortunate enough to get a vote.

HeartBreakKid · Post #377 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Tue May 10, 2016 5:02 pm

Ill never forget that guy who voted for Carmelo Anthony as MVP over James in 2013, what ever happened to that guy?

Post #378 » by **Doctor MJ** » Tue May 10, 2016 6:25 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:I don't think it's all that clear he is a top 5 player in the league. I don't really get what his argument is over Leonard, CP3, James, Thunder duo - the plus minus thing?

He's more along the level of Paul George in my opinion.

The Warriors w/o Curry played the Rockets and Blazers, two teams with bad defenses - and if Curry did not come back last night the Green lead Warriors probably would be 2-2 against a first round caliber team. I think there is still a lot more to be seen if I'm willing to say that someone like Draymond Green is clearly a better player than Kevin Durant.

I'm not very convinced that a Green lead Warriors would beat a Paul lead Clippers, Stephen Curry is still the carry on that team, and I don't think Green is all that close to him.

Keep in mind, during the RS there were 6 MVP level candidates, saying that Green is clearly a top 5 player pretty much means you're saying he is significantly better than someone like Russell Westbrook.

When you say "the +/- thing", to me that says you look at this stuff very differently from me.

I don't weigh +/- as a factor in how good a guy is, I consider first and foremost how a player is actually able to help his team and +/- is a critical piece of the proof that a guy is doing just that.

Me becoming convinced that Green did have more lift through the season than, say, Curry doesn't mean he'll necessarily be ahead of Curry on my list, but I consider it a REALLY big deal if someone can actually claim to have been the biggest lifter on the GOAT team in history.

Could Paul George do it? Well, so far as I can tell, Green is a more impactful defender and playmaker, while George is a great two-way player who can be your first scoring option on a solid team...but if I"m building a GOAT team, George sure as hell isn't my first option. So while I can get behind people arguing George is as good or better than Green, I really doubt I'd ever see George playing a comparable role to Green's impact on a team that scales this well.

And so yeah, I consider it a very big deal what Green is doing.

You mention someone like Westbrook in particular. I'll frankly say it's impossible for WEstbrook to ever be on a team this good. He just takes too much off the table with his need to dominate the ball, shoot with mediocre efficiency, and fail to distribute the ball to the team's best shooter when the team actually needs buckets. That's sounds awfully harsh I know, but let me be clear: I"m not saying it's crazy to rate Westbrook ahead of Green. WEstbrook can do a lot Green can't. Pretty easy to see why someone would rank Westbrook higher as a result.

But Green is also doing stuff WEstbrook can't that make him able to scale remarkably well to truly exceptional teams, and that's not something to be brushed aside.

Post #379 » by **Doctor MJ** » Tue May 10, 2016 6:27 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
bondom34 wrote:Simmons trolling OKC a bit methinks.

I mean its tough to leave both guys out for sure, but Green and Paul aren't undeserving of top 5 slots either imo. 7 guys had great years.

Neither OKC guy would have made my ballot for this very reason. With Paul's injury though, he'll fall out of my POY ballot and I expect one of the OKC guys to make it.

Post #380 » by **bondom34** » Tue May 10, 2016 6:38 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
bondom34 wrote:Simmons trolling OKC a bit methinks.

I mean its tough to leave both guys out for sure, but Green and Paul aren't undeserving of top 5 slots either imo. 7 guys had great years.

Neither OKC guy would have made my ballot for this very reason. With Paul's injury though, he'll fall out of my POY ballot and I expect one of the OKC guys to make it.

I don't see the real case for both honestly, and Paul for me was 5th but it would be close.