The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 3)

[mikejames23]

it's unnecessary for them to win the series. They have won by respect already. I had thought winning 1 game would be overachieving somewhat, and now they took both at home.

[therealbig3]

I thought LeBron played really well, but even with him hitting some jumpers today, Toronto still doesn't fear him from outside and are gifting him wide open looks. I think he needs to stop overthinking it, and just start shooting when he's given that much space.

But let's be real, Cleveland lost not because of their offense, but because they couldn't guard a chair.

[Dupp]

Why did they go away from Delly as the point guard in the 4th? Cost us the game.

[BasketballFan7]

LeBron's PER in the playoffs is 28.1, tied with his 2013 postseason. WS48 is .258 to .260. Very impressive all things considered. He looks very controlled out there, unflappable like.

[ppedro123]

LeBron's PER in the playoffs is 28.1, tied with his 2013 postseason. WS48 is .258 to .260. Very impressive all things considered. He looks very controlled out there, unflappable like.

He's having a great series but he has to be more agressive down the stretch.


If your teammates are not making shots, don't try to force feed them all the time.

[JulesWinnfield]

I saw a stat scrolling on the screen on ESPN that I absolutely couldn't believe. I rewound the DVR twice to make sure I was reading what I thought I was reading, because it was pretty unbelievable.....

Last night was only the 2nd time in the history of the league where 2 starting back court mates both scored 30 points in the same night in a conference final game. That's all, no other qualifications. Not requiring a certain level of efficiency or anything, just raw points. Drexler and Porter were the other duo. I still have trouble believing this. You'd think it would have been done more often

[PCProductions]

I thought Lebron was great. Toronto was simply making everything in the 4th. Demar/Lowry just play better at home I guess. I wouldn't worry too much about this series tie as it required Irving and Love to completely implode and Lowry/Demar/Biyombo to have concurrent best games of their lives in order to make it even get to this point. Cavs will adjust and play better at home at close it up in Game 6.

[ppedro123]

I thought Lebron was great. Toronto was simply making everything in the 4th. Demar/Lowry just play better at home I guess. I wouldn't worry too much about this series tie as it required Irving and Love to completely implode and Lowry/Demar/Biyombo to have concurrent best games of their lives in order to make it even get to this point. Cavs will adjust and play better at home at close it up in Game 6.

He was great but down the stretch, he had Lowry guarding him on the post... and instead of attacking quickly, he chose to wait for the double team and pass the ball when his teammates were simply not making shots.


I mean, i'm a LeBron defender but he better start looking to take over. You just can't always trust in Love, JR and others in pivotal moments.

[JLei]

I was at the game. Crowd was absolutely on fire. Probably the loudest it's ever been since Game 7 against Brooklyn that KG said was the loudest arena he was ever at.

I was saying to my friend all game long that Tristan doesn't belong on the court here. Great adjustment by Toronto in the past 2 games to just overload strong side immediately with Biyombo on any post up when Tristan is on the court. Allows everyone to stay at home instead of having to collapse late.

Any time Frye was on the court Toronto had zero chance of stopping it. 100 orating with Tristan on the court 121 with Frye.

Basic Horns set with PG (mostly Delly) back screening for Jefferson and the left elbow into a DHO from Lebron scored every time down the court. Lebron was a magician there and even with his jumpshot gone (though he made a bunch yesterday/ frankly too unselfish with the Tristan lineups in) Lebron high post passing and then thundering down the lane on a roll is a glimpse of how he will be effective going forward.

You shouldn't be too worried about Derozan. Biyombo laid some good screens out there and Lebron maybe trailed out a bit too much but he's going to score his 20-25 points on 50ish% TS. Nothing scary here.

Lowry is a combo of CP3 + Lillard when his jumpshot is on. That's a scary thing. It was on most of the regular season which is why this mediocre of a team outside of him can win 56 games but has been obviously extremely inconsistent in the playoffs. Loved Delly and just the blitzing him hard they did early in the 4th quarter. Biyombo on a wide open short roll isn't going to do jack. While Biyombo has now become the GOAT of Toronto he's not Draymond haha. Tristan was doing some absolutely (Please Use More Appropriate Word) stuff yesterday like jumping screens that Lowry just crossed and went away from and liberally switching onto a guy on fire from outside.

I do like the overhelping (big difference between overhelping and getting collapsed by Lebron) and just hope everyone is cold from outside strategy. The single cover a gigantic mismatch and then collapse against one of the best passers of all time was not going to work. As the underdog, objective should be increasing variance shooting tons of 3's and giving them up.

Expecting Cavs to cover in game 5 (expecting much less Tristan and more Frye). But with the home crowd Toronto might just win game 6. Anything on top of this is just gravy. But crazy to think my Raptors are 2 games away from the NBA Finals.

[Arman_tanzarian]

We have all the momentum. I can't tell if this is real life. Kyrie/Lowry matchup is one sided as long as Lowry stays aggressive. This Kyrie guy has no interest in playing defence. On offence he is one of the lowest IQ players I've seen and I watch Demar for 82+ games a year.

[PCProductions]

I was at the game. Crowd was absolutely on fire. Probably the loudest it's ever been since Game 7 against Brooklyn that KG said was the loudest arena he was ever at.

I was saying to my friend all game long that Tristan doesn't belong on the court here. Great adjustment by Toronto in the past 2 games to just overload strong side immediately with Biyombo on any post up when Tristan is on the court. Allows everyone to stay at home instead of having to collapse late.

Any time Frye was on the court Toronto had zero chance of stopping it. 100 orating with Tristan on the court 121 with Frye.

Basic Horns set with PG (mostly Delly) in left corner back screening for Jefferson and the left elbow into a DHO from Lebron scored every time down the court. Lebron was a magician there and even with his jumpshot gone (though he made a bunch yesterday/ frankly too unselfish with the Tristan lineups in) Lebron high post passing and then thundering down the lane on a roll is a glimpse of how he will be effective going forward.

You shouldn't be too worried about Derozan. Biyombo laid some good screens out there and Lebron maybe trailed out a bit too much but he's going to score his 20-25 points on 50ish% TS. Nothing scary here.

Lowry is a combo of CP3 + Lillard when his jumpshot is on. That's a scary thing. It was on most of the regular season which is why this mediocre of a team outside of him can win 56 games but has been obviously extremely inconsistent in the playoffs. Loved Delly and just the blitzing him hard they did early in the 4th quarter. Biyombo on a wide open short roll isn't going to do jack. While Biyombo has now become the GOAT of Toronto he's not Draymond haha. Tristan was doing some absolutely (Please Use More Appropriate Word) stuff yesterday like jumping screens that Lowry just crossed and went away from and liberally switching onto a guy on fire from outside.

I do like the overhelping (big difference between overhelping and getting collapsed by Lebron) and just hope everyone is cold from outside strategy. The single cover a gigantic mismatch and then collapse against one of the best passers of all time was not going to work. As the underdog, objective should be increasing variance shooting tons of 3's and giving them up.

Expecting Cavs to cover in game 5 (expecting much less Tristan and more Frye). But with the home crowd Toronto might just win game 6. Anything on top of this is just gravy. But crazy to think my Raptors are 2 games away from the NBA Finals.

Great to hear you were there! Must have been a really special moment for such a great fanbase.

[parapooper]

LeBron 1st in RPM now.
Lowry at 7th right between Westbrook and Durant.
Kyrie at 251st right between Frank Kaminsky III and Coty Clarke
Sounds about right.

[JVL]

The Cavaliers will finish it in the next 2 games, take that to the bank, but what the Raptors have done is amazing. Kyrie has been disappointing and it doesn't bode well for either potential Finals matchup.

[ppedro123]

The Cavaliers will finish it in the next 2 games, take that to the bank, but what the Raptors have done is amazing. Kyrie has been disappointing and it doesn't bode well for either potential Finals matchup.

I just don't know how the Cavs is gonna guard Curry/Klay or Russ/KD.

[tsherkin]

The Cavaliers will finish it in the next 2 games, take that to the bank, but what the Raptors have done is amazing. Kyrie has been disappointing and it doesn't bode well for either potential Finals matchup.

That's a possibility, but acting like it's a certainty now that Lowry and Derozan are actually playing good basketball seems a bit... optimistic. It seems much more likely that the Raptors will take at least one of the next two games and that this will be decided in seven.

[OnlyOneWay2Play]

Thoughts on Kyrie and Love

Love:
- Even at his best, he has only two strengths: (1) 3-pt shooting (2) Defensive Rebounding. If he's not doing both - and right now is he doing neither - he is a complete negative player. ON D he provides no rim-protection or ability to switch; on O he isn't strong enough to post consistently and finish inside (ghastly % in the restricted area this postseason) and he can't create anything off the dribble obviously. Point blank, the guy is not very good.
- So the Cavs are paying the max to a guy who is a 3-and-Dreb (note: less valuable than 3-and-D). Guys like Frye are actually better in every respect than Love, and get paid 1/4 as much.
- IMO, the Cavs MUST trade Love this off-season, hopefully for a package of Jae Crowder / Avery Bradley / Kelly Olynyk.

Kyrie:
- Unlike Love (and despite much hate he gets), Kyrie is actually incredibly talented individually. He is a supreme shot-creator (for himself), excellent shooter, and decent athlete.
- *IF (big if), he learns to just (a) run a pick-and-roll and (b) give strong effort defensively, he could be the closest player in the league to Curry (maybe 85% as good, similar to Lillard say)
- However, while he has played very well this postseason, his reluctance to look for the pass and play synergistically with the best style for LeBron + shooters (P-n-R), and his lack of effort on D, has made his overall impact less than it should be.
- I am reluctant to consider it given Kyrie's age and talent (vs. Paul's age and injuries), but perhaps the Cavs should explore a Kyrie for CP3 trade. Looking at what Delly was able to do with LeBron + shooters in the 4th, made me think that CP3 could be a super-Delly with the Cavs (supreme P-n-R passer / shooter + good D), if LeBron buys into being a screener / roller / quick finisher / passer PF

If the Cavs don't win it all this year, and especially if they lose to TOR, they HAVE to make major changes. Perhaps a roster of:

PG: CP3 / Delly
SG: Avery Bradley / Shump / JR
SF: Jae Crowder / RJ
PF: LeBron
C: Frye / Olynyk / TT

The key is a 4- or 5-out system with LeBron as the hub, a great P-n-R passer running point, and solid 3-and-D players around them, ESPECIALLY a stretch 5 (opening up the lane). The performance in the 4th Q yesterday with a unit like this was a revelation.

Thoughts?

[Heej]

Cavs figured out that the ideal way to play this Raps team is trapping PnR's with Biyombo as the screener and forcing him to self combust running the 4 on 3. Their offense is too anemic to survive 40 possessions where they're forced to kick the ball to the weakside wing with 12 seconds left on the clock with a reset defense since they don't have an ingrained system or set of principles to fall back on

[RSCD3_]

We have all the momentum. I can't tell if this is real life. Kyrie/Lowry matchup is one sided as long as Lowry stays aggressive. This Kyrie guy has no interest in playing defence. On offence he is one of the lowest IQ players I've seen and I watch Demar for 82+ games a year.

12.3 minutes per game for delly isnt what cleveland needs.

[SideshowBob]

Obviously can't get ahead of ourselves with the Raps and won't 100% count out GS yet (though TBH, it looks about over), but what do we think about the CLE-OKC matchup?

My quick thoughts would be that 2012 framework shows up again. Cleveland is worse defensively than Miami but has GOAT 3P spacing w/Smith/Shump/Frye/Love/Irving/Delly and you run the offense with Lebron in the mid/low-post all night long (his scoring is way more polished and his playmaking IQ from the post is far above 2012) and he'll pick them apart with ball reversal or interior passing if they're shading and no OKC guy is going to contain him in single coverage. PLUS Cleveland's iso game is just in general better than GS (outside of Steph really) with Kyrie/Love plus I expect Love to revert to the mean with his post game (which GS lacks even more). GS's movement is amazing and Steph has crazy gravity on the perimeter but I think Cleveland's offense is deeper/more dynamic.

They'll lose a couple for sure because Russ is going to abuse their lack of secondary lane/rim rotation and OKC will wreck them on the boards (Lebron should have another >10 TRB/G Finals if he's being serious about this) and inside in general , but I think they can out offense OKC over the course of 6-7 games.

[RSCD3_]

Obviously can't get ahead of ourselves with the Raps and won't 100% count out GS yet (though TBH, it looks about over), but what do we think about the CLE-OKC matchup?

My quick thoughts would be that 2012 framework shows up again. Cleveland is worse defensively than Miami but has GOAT 3P spacing w/Smith/Shump/Frye/Love/Irving/Delly and you run the offense with Lebron in the mid/low-post all night long (his scoring is way more polished and his playmaking IQ from the post is far above 2012) and he'll pick them apart with ball reversal or interior passing if they're shading and no OKC guy is going to contain him in single coverage. PLUS Cleveland's iso game is just in general better than GS (outside of Steph really) with Kyrie/Love plus I expect Love to revert to the mean with his post game (which GS lacks even more). GS's movement is amazing and Steph has crazy gravity on the perimeter but I think Cleveland's offense is deeper/more dynamic.

They'll lose a couple for sure because Russ is going to abuse their lack of secondary lane/rim rotation and OKC will wreck them on the boards (Lebron should have another >10 TRB/G Finals if he's being serious about this) and inside in general , but I think they can out offense OKC over the course of 6-7 games.

I agree with most parts, interesting to see how lue will decide how many minutes Delly/Frye get vs Irving/Love. I think there's a defense possibility of delly starting at the 2 to guard westbrook. That's probably the cavs best bet at defending him. Lot of tough decisions for both teams honestly.