2022-23 NBA Season Discussion

[parsnips33]

Who would you peg as the third best player on the Clippers going into next season? They have so many guys at the "strong role player" level it's kinda hard to separate them

[sp6r=underrated]

One thing the Durant trade demand shows is the short contract length (5 yr max) ends up giving leverage to elite players while giving teams leverage over marginal players. Notice in the case of Durant who has multiple years remaining Brooklyn finds it much easier to say no trade unless we get a huge haul.

The over thing having strict contract length limits does is make it much easier for players to try to form superteams in bigger cities.

I don't particularly care about superteams but if you do max contract lengths are not your friends.

I had the opposite thought.

Players making trade demands when they haven’t even begun their 4 year extension to me tells us that Durant doesn’t care in the slightest how much time he has left under contract.

He wants what he wants. He’s a god. So everyone else should rush to accommodate whatever whim he has all the time.

I don't think you need more leverage for Durant. Durant as you said thinks he is a god. In other words he is the classic irrational actor who is making demands without any leverage. Quite similar to Ben Simmons last year. As long as Ben doesn't get paid, I doubt you'll see another player sit out without pay on a huge contract length.

For Durant, Nets have all the leverage necessary. Durant's giving them the okay to trade em so if Memphis/Toronto or some other city makes a godfather offer they should send him there. They have no reason to limit themselves to Miami/Phoenix and it doesn't seem like they are. And once the trade is done or they don't get an offer just Ben Simmons em and don't pay him if they won't play.

The reason short contract lengths make it easy for form superteams is that a high level of superstars will always have contract lengths in alignment. But if you could offer 10 yr contracts like MLB/NFL, that wouldn't nearly be the case.

Were I an NBA owner thinking about the next CBA I’d be less focused on the lengths of contracts and more focused on giving teeth to contract to make sure that any players who do this have as little leverage as possible.

A player can always decide to sit out and not get paid, and if he’s willing to do that, he’ll always have leverage, but I’m sure they can do things to box a KD in better.

Of course there’s always a question of what you can get the player union to accept, but I’d expect the union will understand that because of the actions of Kyrie/Harden/KD/Simmons the owners will be out for blood in a way they haven’t been this century, and if the non-superstars can properly leverage themselves, they ought to be able to agree to a contract that helps them while hurting the superstars.

That said, traditionally the players have been remarkably naive about letting superstars have key roles in the union, so maybe they’ll got to the mat for superstars who treat their peers like dirt.

I've often wondered whether a team will try to use video tracking stats to get away with not paying a player who pulls a Vince/Harden. Vince/Harden move is to show up but blatantly not try. With new video tracking stats you can easily document the player isn't putting in sufficient effort. I do think this would be something the owners should fight for, and obviously you need to get union buy in.


If I were a rank and file owner I want to raise or eliminate the max individual contract which will require dividing the union and siding with superstars against rank/file. Reason being for a lot of teams cap space only gets you access to the third tier free agents. With Max Salaries you get paid the same in Minneapolis as LA. I loved Minneapolis, but overwhelmingly people will prefer LA. If you eliminate max salaries these markets can try to sign top superstars. With max individual salaries you're stuck giving max deals to the 2nd rate free agents.

[Dr Positivity]

Who would you peg as the third best player on the Clippers going into next season? They have so many guys at the "strong role player" level it's kinda hard to separate them

I feel like this version of Batum is a really class role player and may have more impact than the players who score more like Powell.

The Clippers must have their best players concentrated at wing the most of any team in NBA history.

[prolific passer]

Hawks could be a dark horse for Durant as they got Collins, Capela, and Bogdan but i feel they lose out on the picks because they gave up so much for Murray.

[Colbinii]

Hawks could be a dark horse for Durant as they got Collins, Capela, and Bogdan but i feel they lose out on the picks because they gave up so much for Murray.

It would need to be something like Okongwu, Hunter, Collins, Bogdan plus the full arsenal of picks but Atlanta doesn't have the picks.

Ultimately Brooklyn deservedly is going to wait until the right player becomes available but if reports are true they turned down the Minnesota Package for Gobert and instead asked for ANT/KAT, the Nets are in for a rude awakening.

[falcolombardi]

Hawks could be a dark horse for Durant as they got Collins, Capela, and Bogdan but i feel they lose out on the picks because they gave up so much for Murray.

If nets are blowing it up, picks make mote sense than capela and bogdan (collins fits a rebuilding team timeline tho)

[prolific passer]

Hawks could be a dark horse for Durant as they got Collins, Capela, and Bogdan but i feel they lose out on the picks because they gave up so much for Murray.

If nets are blowing it up, picks make mote sense than capela and bogdan (collins fits a rebuilding team timeline tho)

Nets want picks more than players it seems and hawks gave up all their picks for Murray. So they have nothing for Durant. Collins and Bogdan would give them a young forward and a young guard though.

[CKRT]

Harden taking such a massive paycut so the 76ers can sign more players is certainly flying in the face of the drama queen/selfish narrative. Dude wants to win.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Can durant just go to the suns already lol it feels inevitable that’s where he’ll end up

[Colbinii]

Harden taking such a massive paycut so the 76ers can sign more players is certainly flying in the face of the drama queen/selfish narrative. Dude wants to win.

He was a super-duper team away from winning in 2018.

Look at players like Kobe Bryant who were clearly inferior players comparing the span of 2000-2002 versus 2018-2020 and won 3 titles when Harden wins 0.

Harden is definitely at the point of his career where he has everything an NBA superstar would want minus the ring.

[penbeast0]

Hey, maybe the Sixers could get Durant! At least we know the Philly fans will be kindler and gentler than the Brooklyn ones.

[The-Power]

Hawks could be a dark horse for Durant as they got Collins, Capela, and Bogdan but i feel they lose out on the picks because they gave up so much for Murray.

If nets are blowing it up, picks make mote sense than capela and bogdan (collins fits a rebuilding team timeline tho)

Nets want picks more than players it seems and hawks gave up all their picks for Murray. So they have nothing for Durant. Collins and Bogdan would give them a young forward and a young guard though.

Bogdan turns 30 next month. Nothing young about him.

[ShotCreator]

Who would you peg as the third best player on the Clippers going into next season? They have so many guys at the "strong role player" level it's kinda hard to separate them

Covington. Not even close. A truly elite defender with a strong shot making game off the catch and while contested.

Covington has some of the greatest hands at his size ever.

[yoyoboy]

It’s so confusing to me why so many people (not necessarily here) seem to view Garland’s contract as some gross overpay. I thought it was basically expected.

Steph Curry at the same age was a rookie putting up 18/6 on a 26 win team.

Kyrie put up 21/6 with below average efficiency on a 33 win team.

Lillard at half a year older was a rookie putting up 19/6.5 on a 33 win Blazers team.

Garland averaged nearly 22/9 on a 44 win team with above average scoring efficiency, a +6.7 on-court, a + 12.1 on-off, and an RAPM ranking 6th in the league. And given the starting lineup consisted of three bigs (only one of whom can shoot) and Okoro, it’s not like he was in extremely beneficial offensive circumstances either. This is also after showing continued huge improvement every year in the league so far.

I would think in the open market, a 22 year old PG who will most likely be one of the best off the dribble shooters in the league, one of the best playmakers, and a master in the PnR who can also play effectively off the ball and really isn’t even that bad on defense would fetch max money from most teams.

[MartinToVaught]

Can durant just go to the suns already lol it feels inevitable that’s where he’ll end up

IDK, more and more it seems like a failed trade demand and KD will have to make peace with being a Net. The offers just aren't there and he has too much time left on his contract.

[Max123]

Not terribly impressed with Banchero's SL performance against the Kings although he showed some flashes on defense which surprised me positively. Offensively lots of subpar decisions albeit some of them are understandable considering the circumstances.

Edit: Just want to say that there were some very nice flashes offensively as well like some passes and few nice drives where his fluid athleticism really showed up. Just expected a little more consistency. Keegan Murray showed lots of potential as an off-ball player: cuts and movement threes into open space.

[Colbinii]

Not terribly impressed with Banchero's SL performance against the Kings although he showed some flashes on defense which surprised me positively. Offensively lots of subpar decisions albeit some of them are understandable considering the circumstances.

Edit: Just want to say that there were some very nice flashes offensively as well like some passes and few nice drives where his fluid athleticism really showed up. Just expected a little more consistency. Keegan Murray showed lots of potential as an off-ball player: cuts and movement threes into open space.

Banchero's first game really showed off his passing pedigree and helped support the idea that he does have potential to be a real #1 option, which you can't have in todays NBA unless you can be a good passing bigman.

Chet has been super impactful. Ridiculous +/- and I expect the Thunder to be a Top 12 defense this year which takes them out of the running for the Top Pick(s) next year.

[falcolombardi]

Not terribly impressed with Banchero's SL performance against the Kings although he showed some flashes on defense which surprised me positively. Offensively lots of subpar decisions albeit some of them are understandable considering the circumstances.

Edit: Just want to say that there were some very nice flashes offensively as well like some passes and few nice drives where his fluid athleticism really showed up. Just expected a little more consistency. Keegan Murray showed lots of potential as an off-ball player: cuts and movement threes into open space.

Banchero's first game really showed off his passing pedigree and helped support the idea that he does have potential to be a real #1 option, which you can't have in todays NBA unless you can be a good passing bigman.

Chet has been super impactful. Ridiculous +/- and I expect the Thunder to be a Top 12 defense this year which takes them out of the running for the Top Pick(s) next year.

Thunder was a +0.8, 18th ranked defense last season, could definetely surprise defensively next season with the new additions amd growth of the young players

The real issue is developing a nba level offense

[prolific passer]

It’s so confusing to me why so many people (not necessarily here) seem to view Garland’s contract as some gross overpay. I thought it was basically expected.

Steph Curry at the same age was a rookie putting up 18/6 on a 26 win team.

Kyrie put up 21/6 with below average efficiency on a 33 win team.

Lillard at half a year older was a rookie putting up 19/6.5 on a 33 win Blazers team.

Garland averaged nearly 22/9 on a 44 win team with above average scoring efficiency, a +6.7 on-court, a + 12.1 on-off, and an RAPM ranking 6th in the league. And given the starting lineup consisted of three bigs (only one of whom can shoot) and Okoro, it’s not like he was in extremely beneficial offensive circumstances either. This is also after showing continued huge improvement every year in the league so far.

I would think in the open market, a 22 year old PG who will most likely be one of the best off the dribble shooters in the league, one of the best playmakers, and a master in the PnR who can also play effectively off the ball and really isn’t even that bad on defense would fetch max money from most teams.

Can't wait Lebron to go back the cavs after next season and ruin all that young talent.

[sp6r=underrated]

That said, traditionally the players have been remarkably naive about letting superstars have key roles in the union, so maybe they’ll got to the mat for superstars who treat their peers like dirt.


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This hits me as quite wrong. I think the median vet, working with the owners have done a great job redistributing money to the typical player who belongs to the union (veteran with some status)

1. They supported the rookie scale which shifts some of the money from the rookies to veterans with the other part going to the owners.
2. They supported max salaries which have superstars grossly underpaid, even with supermax deals. Some of the money that would go to the superstars goes to the owners but a lot ends up in the veteran players pockets.