2024-25 NBA Season Discussion

[jalengreen]

He's already comparable to Tatum (the most recent best player on a title team) imo and while we never really know what'll happen, the Spurs *should* be operating under the assumption that he'll improve even further - I know I am. Fans can wait around to form their own opinions ofc, but I do not think the Spurs should be sitting around on a true generational talent. That's how you end up being remembered as the team that didn't build around LeBron.

Sure. But Tatum also fell right apart in consecutive Finals, and relied heavily on Dallas collapsing to win that title. AND the Boston D was electric, and they had all kinds of roleplayers on the team. And Wemby isn't rocking an efficient 27 just yet, either.

Obviously, the Spurs should be trying to add talent and gear up to win, but adding a one-year rental of Durant probably isn't the right way to do it.

EDIT: I realize Wemby was rocking 24 pretty efficiently, but he bombs threes and has little in between the rim and the arc right now. He needs to flesh out the rest of his scoring game before I'm really ready to shift my personal opinion on him, because we've seen a fairly large number of guys struggling with that problem the past stretch.

Don't really understand the "relied heavily on Dallas collapsing to win that title." They dispatched Dallas with relative ease in a gentleman's sweep even with it being an inefficient series for Tatum. I'd understand the reliant angle if it was a competitive series despite Dallas playing poorly, but it really wasn't. I don't think they were reliant on anything. [And despite the RS numbers, Tatum in the 2024 playoffs averaged 25 on 55% TS% fwiw]

There's also the other side of the ball. Yeah we should be critical of Wemby's offensive game for sure, it's certainly not a finished product, but we also shouldn't overly focus on a scoring comparison and lose sight of the fact that he would have been a 21-year-old DPOY if not for blood clots. If he wasn't the best defensive player in the league, I certainly wouldn't be saying that he projects to be good enough to be the best player on a title team in 2026.

Would be surprised if there wasn't a short extension for KD.

[sp6r=underrated]

Durant will be 3 years older than PG when PHI got him. Pretty dangerous. I think Towns for Durant is an interesting idea since if it doesn't work they get the capspace anyway. But Bridges may have to be traded for a C.

Please don't make me have to root for Durant.

[tsherkin]

Don't really understand the "relied heavily on Dallas collapsing to win that title." They dispatched Dallas with relative ease in a gentleman's sweep even with it being an inefficient series for Tatum. I'd understand the reliant angle if it was a competitive series despite Dallas playing poorly, but it really wasn't. I don't think they were reliant on anything. [And despite the RS numbers, Tatum in the 2024 playoffs averaged 25 on 55% TS% fwiw]

60.4% in the RS, 54.9% in the PS, 50.5% in the Finals. Playoff average was 56.6%, just to throw that into perspective.

Also, Dallas shot 31.6% from 3 in that series, and they had four guys in volume under 28%. That was a problem for them, and a large part of why the series went as it did. They got blown out in Game 1, no doubt, but otherwise it was -7, -7, they blew Boston out in Game 4, and then -18 when they shot 11/37 (29.7%) from 3 in the close-out game. Kyrie, DJJ, PJ, all terrible.

Maybe Boston still wins that series without the huge shooting variance. They certainly did a good job taking away the lob threat. But I don't think so.

Yeah we should be critical of Wemby's offensive game for sure, it's certainly not a finished product, but we also shouldn't overly focus on a scoring comparison and lose sight of the fact that he would have been a 21-year-old DPOY if not for blood clots. If he wasn't the best defensive player in the league, I certainly wouldn't be saying that he projects to be good enough to be the best player on a title team in 2026.

Would be surprised if there wasn't a short extension for KD.

Yeah, Wemby's a very good player, we aren't arguing over that as a baseline. But being the best defensive player in the league has not generally been the goods for leading a team to a title. You still need to manage your offense. And I think he will eventually get to the point of being there.

But he's going into his third season, he's quite young and he has a ways to go on offense before I'm really willing to give him those flowers. They need a lot, and much more than just KD will provide, in order to contend IMHO.

[jalengreen]

Don't really understand the "relied heavily on Dallas collapsing to win that title." They dispatched Dallas with relative ease in a gentleman's sweep even with it being an inefficient series for Tatum. I'd understand the reliant angle if it was a competitive series despite Dallas playing poorly, but it really wasn't. I don't think they were reliant on anything. [And despite the RS numbers, Tatum in the 2024 playoffs averaged 25 on 55% TS% fwiw]

60.4% in the RS, 54.9% in the PS, 50.5% in the Finals. Playoff average was 56.6%, just to throw that into perspective.

Also, Dallas shot 31.6% from 3 in that series, and they had four guys in volume under 28%. That was a problem for them, and a large part of why the series went as it did. They got blown out in Game 1, no doubt, but otherwise it was -7, -7, they blew Boston out in Game 4, and then -18 when they shot 11/37 (29.7%) from 3 in the close-out game. Kyrie, DJJ, PJ, all terrible.

Maybe Boston still wins that series without the huge shooting variance. They certainly did a good job taking away the lob threat. But I don't think so.

Not sure how compelling I find this argument to be when it seems to ignore the Celtics shooting poorly.

The "huge shooting variance" is a series where, to be exact:

- The Mavs shot 31.6% from 3 (-5.3% from their regular season clip)
- The Celtics shot 33.8% from 3 (-5.0% from their regular season clip)

If you calculate each player's expected 3s made in the series based on their actual 3PA and their regular season 3P% and used that as an estimate of each team's expected 3P%, then it's -5.60% for Dallas and -5.14% for Dallas. So we're talking about the difference between one three pointer made over the course of the series.

The -18 close-out game loss where the Mavs shot 29.7% from 3? The Celtics shot 33.3%, again below their season average. Two extra made threes from Dallas would have put them at 35.1%, above the Celtics clip, and for my money I don't think it swings that game at all.

Yeah, if we assume that the Mavericks shoot well from 3 but the Celtics continue not to, I guess the series probably leans Dallas' way. I just struggle to see why that's meaningful. Both teams shot poorly from 3, and one fairly comfortable put away the other. I don't think the correct analysis is that the the winning team was reliant on the losing team's collapse.

Yeah we should be critical of Wemby's offensive game for sure, it's certainly not a finished product, but we also shouldn't overly focus on a scoring comparison and lose sight of the fact that he would have been a 21-year-old DPOY if not for blood clots. If he wasn't the best defensive player in the league, I certainly wouldn't be saying that he projects to be good enough to be the best player on a title team in 2026.

Would be surprised if there wasn't a short extension for KD.

Yeah, Wemby's a very good player, we aren't arguing over that as a baseline. But being the best defensive player in the league has not generally been the goods for leading a team to a title. You still need to manage your offense. And I think he will eventually get to the point of being there.

But he's going into his third season, he's quite young and he has a ways to go on offense before I'm really willing to give him those flowers. They need a lot, and much more than just KD will provide, in order to contend IMHO.

So what is the baseline for 'managing your offense' such that it makes Wemby good enough to be the best player on a title team? I assume the baseline is lower than Tatum, if we allow that Wemby's a more impactful defensive player than Tatum.

I do think he needs to get better offensively so don't really disagree there, but I don't think that we're *that* far from saying that the first team All-NBA / DPOY level guy is at that level. And I do expect it to be clear in 2026.

[tsherkin]

So what is the baseline for 'managing your offense' such that it makes Wemby good enough to be the best player on a title team? I assume the baseline is lower than Tatum, if we allow that Wemby's a more impactful defensive player than Tatum.

I do think he needs to get better offensively so don't really disagree there, but I don't think that we're *that* far from saying that the first team All-NBA / DPOY level guy is at that level. And I do expect it to be clear in 2026.

I think we'll see how it goes. I think Tatum got very lucky with the depth of talent on the Celtics in a way which isn't common and isn't likely to happen in San Antonio, so I think Wemby's individual offense is still pretty distant from where it would need to be for a legit title run once they accumulate the rest of the talent they'd need (even with KD) to get there.

I don't really measure by accolade the level of a player, so I don't really care if he's All-NBA 1st Team or not, I don't think that's relevant at this point.

The Spurs are VERY far from what Boston has in terms of secondary and tertiary supporting cast. And adding KD, even cheaply won't really change that. They were also the 6th-worst defense in the league DESPITE Wemby's presence, and that wasn't far different over the portion of the season where he played, either, so his injury affected that only so much. Like, obviously he lifted them from being 29th or 30th, but they were still ass regardless, so it's an area where they have a LOT of work to do, and KD doesn't particularly help that at all at this stage in his career.

This is what I'm saying. Yeah, if you've got an elite defense and a crapload of shooters, then you can get away with a three-spamming player who has only so much game inside the arc. Wemby CAN play a little more inside the arc, he can be a lob threat and he can slash some and so forth, but he needs something away from the rim and inside the arc before I'll feel really comfortable with that. And then the team needs to not be a dumpster fire on D, and even then still needs to be better on offense. There are just too many pieces missing to really be thinking about contention just yet, so giving up ANY assets for KD seems very short-sighted given his level of impact and his prospects for how much of his career remains (particularly with his health history this decade).

[lessthanjake]

I hate to say it, but I don’t know that you want KD on a team with a young budding superstar. I think you want to make sure Wembanyama develops all the right attitude-related stuff and that there’s not internal drama in the team that pushes him away, and I just would be concerned Durant would be detrimental on those things. And it’d all be in service of probably not actually moving the needle towards a title, since his impact at this point isn’t super high and will only keep declining, and the Spurs are pretty far off. Titles aren’t everything and I don’t think teams should just opt to tank if they can’t contend for a title. Making a move that makes a team relevant and interesting to watch can be a good thing, even if you’re fairly sure your team still won’t be a real title contender. But it’s not like the alternative here is tanking—even without being title contenders, Spurs fans will have a lot to be excited about without Durant being there.

[TheGOATRises007]

Indy on pace for a historic upset

Didn't see this coming

[jalengreen]

Suddenly felt a rush of hope for a long awaited Finals Game 7

[Peregrine01]

So much of OKC’s offense is dependent on them forcing turnovers. They look a lot more mortal without all the fast break points.

[CKRT]

Indiana’s turnover economy against this defense was S tier.

[GSP]

Indy on pace for a historic upset

Didn't see this coming

Really dunno why you thought this wasnt gonna be a series and Okc would cruise.............Everything about Pacers play in the new year including playoffs said theyd be the best team Okc played. And Okc hasnt been good on the road all playoffs

[tone wone]

Really impressive defense in the 4th (and 2nd) from Indy. Just smothered them.

[Texas Chuck]

Okay Indiana. No matter what happens in the next 2-4 games, you've proven you absolutely belonged in a series few(including me btw) thought you had a real chance in.

Still miss old grumpy Rick Carlisle too. Once again, he's outcoaching the latest hot name as he's done time and again throughout his career. Old guy still has something.

[GSP]

Really impressive defense in the 4th (and 2nd) from Indy. Just smothered them.

Speaks more to how unimpressive Okcs offense is Imo. Denver had quarters and halves where they defended them like that too and Denvers roster should not be capable of anything like that

[Special_Puppy]

Read on Twitter

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[IlikeSHAIguys]

you know it would be cool if we could stop going down 2-1

[IlikeSHAIguys]

Also how dare you Catlin.

[eminence]

0 FTA for Haliburton through 3 games.

[penbeast0]

0 FTA for Haliburton through 3 games.

Led Indiana in rebounds as well as points and assists though.

[Peregrine01]

0 FTA for Haliburton through 3 games.

Ethical hoops