2019-20 NBA Season Discussion

[Doctor MJ]

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?s=19

Oh ****. I thought Kawhi was fully behind Doc and he was one of the reasons he came to the Clippers?

I said after the Denver series that keeping Doc wouldn't necessarily be a mistake, because it might mean bringing in new assistants. I have to say though, this was always gut feeling about what they should do.

You've got Jerry West on board as well as the sharp Lawrence Frank. They should be able to find someone more in line with Spo/Stevens/Nurse.

[MisterHibachi]

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?s=19

Oh ****. I thought Kawhi was fully behind Doc and he was one of the reasons he came to the Clippers?

I said after the Denver series that keeping Doc wouldn't necessarily be a mistake, because it might mean bringing in new assistants. I have to say though, this was always gut feeling about what they should do.

You've got Jerry West on board as well as the sharp Lawrence Frank. They should be able to find someone more in line with Spo/Stevens/Nurse.

I think it's going to end up being Lue.

[Doctor MJ]

Read on Twitter

?s=19

Oh ****. I thought Kawhi was fully behind Doc and he was one of the reasons he came to the Clippers?

I said after the Denver series that keeping Doc wouldn't necessarily be a mistake, because it might mean bringing in new assistants. I have to say though, this was always gut feeling about what they should do.

You've got Jerry West on board as well as the sharp Lawrence Frank. They should be able to find someone more in line with Spo/Stevens/Nurse.

I think it's going to end up being Lue.

That doesn't fill me with confidence. I don't think of him primarily as a tactician.

[Clyde Frazier]

I wonder how much of a shot cassell has at the job. He's been an assistant for 11 years, 6 with the clips. Maybe if the stakes weren't so high he'd have a better chance? Seems like his rep has mainly been player development with guards.

[Orin]

It's crazy to think that Doc Rivers only managed to win 3 playoffs series in 7 years (since 2013-2014) with the Clippers and never managed to get out of the second round. I know injuries played a factor in 2016/2017 but still. For reference, Portland won 4 series in the same timeframe.

[MyUniBroDavis]

I said after the Denver series that keeping Doc wouldn't necessarily be a mistake, because it might mean bringing in new assistants. I have to say though, this was always gut feeling about what they should do.

You've got Jerry West on board as well as the sharp Lawrence Frank. They should be able to find someone more in line with Spo/Stevens/Nurse.

I think it's going to end up being Lue.

That doesn't fill me with confidence. I don't think of him primarily as a tactician.

I like lue but id assume if you promote someone from the same staff your gonna run into the same problems to an extent

[E-Balla]

Lue is definitely getting the job and it's insane to me. I mean I respect him as a coach but I struggle to see him being anything other than a worse, less well respected, not already HOFer Doc. I mean they had to do something after that collapse (and they can't dump PG13 or Kawhi) but I think it's not a good move. The team has serious professionalism issues as we saw with all their problems in the early bubble with 3 different players leaving the bubble (including leaving to hit up Magic City with Jack Harlow).

[RCM88x]

Yeah, there is no way in my mind that Lue is an upgrade. Though I feel the majority of the motivation here is not actually about basketball and is instead about relationships, perception and power within the organization.

Perhaps the 2016 Cavs situation fills the Clippers with confidence in Lue, for some reason... To me the personality/ego makeup of this team is completely different though.

Curious to see how this works out regardless.

[RSCD3_]

How yall feeling about jeff van gundy coaching the clips

[ShotCreator]

I said after the Denver series that keeping Doc wouldn't necessarily be a mistake, because it might mean bringing in new assistants. I have to say though, this was always gut feeling about what they should do.

You've got Jerry West on board as well as the sharp Lawrence Frank. They should be able to find someone more in line with Spo/Stevens/Nurse.

I think it's going to end up being Lue.

That doesn't fill me with confidence. I don't think of him primarily as a tactician.

His entire thing is X’s and O’s. Safety deposit box with thousands of plays and realistically has an insane offensive track record. Especially in the playoffs.

All of his former players pretty much go out of their way to praise his skills as a tactician. Especially Kevin Love:

With Ty Lue, it was like, 'Okay, we were an underachieving regular season team.' But when it came time for the playoffs, he was like, 'I got this.' Everything he set up for us, he just had a brilliant mind for his schemes, and his Xs and Os, his ATOs, everything that he did. It just made more sense moving forward when it came to playoff time.

The guy coached the best playoff offenses ever, and people thinks he’s what, a dummy?

He pretty much overachieved every year he coached in Cleveland.

Doc gets all the blame for Kawhi and PG stinking, Lue gets none of the credit for a dynastic offense and rosters that really overachieved from 16-18.

This is just all playing into narratives that shouldn’t have even survived 2016.

You could visibly see the structure Lue brought to Cleveland. Especially in 2016/17. That was really his masterpiece.

They had a dominant offense with LeBron OFF that playoff run. He had Deron Williams looking god-level with all these tricky sets with LeBron.

Innovated with the super small lineups before they really took off.

Defensive schemes on guys like PG and Derozan with no real defensive talent.

If Kyrie didn’t try and sabotage everything it would’ve been even better.

[E-Balla]

I think it's going to end up being Lue.

That doesn't fill me with confidence. I don't think of him primarily as a tactician.

His entire thing is X’s and O’s. Safety deposit box with thousands of plays and realistically has an insane offensive track record. Especially in the playoffs.

All of his former players pretty much go out of their way to praise his skills as a tactician. Especially Kevin Love:

With Ty Lue, it was like, 'Okay, we were an underachieving regular season team.' But when it came time for the playoffs, he was like, 'I got this.' Everything he set up for us, he just had a brilliant mind for his schemes, and his Xs and Os, his ATOs, everything that he did. It just made more sense moving forward when it came to playoff time.

The guy coached the best playoff offenses ever, and people thinks he’s what, a dummy?

He pretty much overachieved every year he coached in Cleveland.

Doc gets all the blame for Kawhi and PG stinking, Lue gets none of the credit for a dynastic offense and rosters that really overachieved from 16-18.

This is just all playing into narratives that shouldn’t have even survived 2016.

You could visibly see the structure Lue brought to Cleveland. Especially in 2016/17. That was really his masterpiece.

They had a dominant offense with LeBron OFF that playoff run. He had Deron Williams looking god-level with all these tricky sets with LeBron.

Innovated with the super small lineups before they really took off.

Defensive schemes on guys like PG and Derozan with no real defensive talent.

If Kyrie didn’t try and sabotage everything it would’ve been even better.

Ty Lue's sets weren't why all the Cleveland players got hot and couldn't miss a shot. Unless Lue got the secret juice to make JR shoot 50% from deep I find it hard crediting him for the Cavs players being absolutely on fire from deep.

No part of the Cavs overachieved, if anything they underachieved so much under him in the regular season it took those postseasons for use to remember exactly how insanely talented those squads were on paper. Shump and JR were the 2nd and 3rd best players on the 9th seed Knicks (and the 2nd and 4th best players on the 2nd seed 2013 Knicks) and weren't even top 4 in Cleveland.

And defensive schemes on PG? The same PG that lit them up for 28/9/7 on 55 TS% while Indy had a 115.5 ORTG? Schemes on Demar Derozan, the same Demar Derozan that played worse against basically every other team he ever faced in the playoffs before going to San Antonio? Like come on... No one was saying this **** in 2017 when it was fresh in our minds, if anything the genius of Lue was in motivating them to play hard and getting out of the way in a way Blatt didn't.

Also he didn't innovate nothing with super small lineups. Like seriously what games and teams were you watching? This sounds more like a description of Kerr than Lue.

[E-Balla]

How yall feeling about jeff van gundy coaching the clips

JVG's been the best coach without a job for over a decade. I don't see him getting picked up now, ESPN pays him too much. No one in their right mind will give up $16 million a year to work for ESPN to make $12 million (I picked $12 mil because it'd make him the highest paid coach in the league) to coach.

[MartinToVaught]

I'm convinced that JVG's agent just puts his name in these rumors to get more money from ESPN. He's always a candidate for every head coaching job and never gets hired.

It's hard to think of a worse fit for the modern NBA than JVG and his system, anyway. He was already a dinosaur 13 years ago when the Rockets fired him.

[Doctor MJ]

I think it's going to end up being Lue.

That doesn't fill me with confidence. I don't think of him primarily as a tactician.

His entire thing is X’s and O’s. Safety deposit box with thousands of plays and realistically has an insane offensive track record. Especially in the playoffs.

All of his former players pretty much go out of their way to praise his skills as a tactician. Especially Kevin Love:

With Ty Lue, it was like, 'Okay, we were an underachieving regular season team.' But when it came time for the playoffs, he was like, 'I got this.' Everything he set up for us, he just had a brilliant mind for his schemes, and his Xs and Os, his ATOs, everything that he did. It just made more sense moving forward when it came to playoff time.

The guy coached the best playoff offenses ever, and people thinks he’s what, a dummy?

He pretty much overachieved every year he coached in Cleveland.

Doc gets all the blame for Kawhi and PG stinking, Lue gets none of the credit for a dynastic offense and rosters that really overachieved from 16-18.

This is just all playing into narratives that shouldn’t have even survived 2016.

You could visibly see the structure Lue brought to Cleveland. Especially in 2016/17. That was really his masterpiece.

They had a dominant offense with LeBron OFF that playoff run. He had Deron Williams looking god-level with all these tricky sets with LeBron.

Innovated with the super small lineups before they really took off.

Defensive schemes on guys like PG and Derozan with no real defensive talent.

If Kyrie didn’t try and sabotage everything it would’ve been even better.

I love this post. Glad for the strong rebuttal and believe me when I say I'm pulling for the Clippers to break through. Calling that fanbase "long suffering" is an understatement.

I'll say though that I think it's really dang clear that Xs and Os had nothing to do with why Blatt was fired and Lue was promoted.

[Doctor MJ]

How yall feeling about jeff van gundy coaching the clips

I think there's a lot of uncertainty to it. What we know about JVG is that he knows a lot about basketball. In the broadcasts, he's the only one on his team worth listening to.

To the notion of him being a dinosaur, I always remember his commentary on James Harden before his breakout season. Harden kept making playing that left Van Gundy gushing. It was Van Gundy who made me first think "Could Harden actually be a star?" I find that noteworthy because Harden was never an "old school star prospect". He was something new, and Van Gundy was the one who seemed to see it first well before the OKC Thunder demonstrated that they didn't see it and trade him.

But being able to see special talent and being able to coach again after all of these paradigm shifts is not the same thing.

I will say this: If JVG comes back and ends up seeming one of the smartest coaches in the league, that's going to be something iconic. Would be cool to see.

My advice though to both Van Gundy bros is to stay on TV and eventually do something together.

[E-Balla]

I'm convinced that JVG's agent just puts his name in these rumors to get more money from ESPN. He's always a candidate for every head coaching job and never gets hired.

It's hard to think of a worse fit for the modern NBA than JVG and his system, anyway. He was already a dinosaur 13 years ago when the Rockets fired him.

JVG made his name with his defensive system and no part of it is outdated. Thibs is proof enough of that.

[MyUniBroDavis]

That doesn't fill me with confidence. I don't think of him primarily as a tactician.

His entire thing is X’s and O’s. Safety deposit box with thousands of plays and realistically has an insane offensive track record. Especially in the playoffs.

All of his former players pretty much go out of their way to praise his skills as a tactician. Especially Kevin Love:

With Ty Lue, it was like, 'Okay, we were an underachieving regular season team.' But when it came time for the playoffs, he was like, 'I got this.' Everything he set up for us, he just had a brilliant mind for his schemes, and his Xs and Os, his ATOs, everything that he did. It just made more sense moving forward when it came to playoff time.

The guy coached the best playoff offenses ever, and people thinks he’s what, a dummy?

He pretty much overachieved every year he coached in Cleveland.

Doc gets all the blame for Kawhi and PG stinking, Lue gets none of the credit for a dynastic offense and rosters that really overachieved from 16-18.

This is just all playing into narratives that shouldn’t have even survived 2016.

You could visibly see the structure Lue brought to Cleveland. Especially in 2016/17. That was really his masterpiece.

They had a dominant offense with LeBron OFF that playoff run. He had Deron Williams looking god-level with all these tricky sets with LeBron.

Innovated with the super small lineups before they really took off.

Defensive schemes on guys like PG and Derozan with no real defensive talent.

If Kyrie didn’t try and sabotage everything it would’ve been even better.

Ty Lue's sets weren't why all the Cleveland players got hot and couldn't miss a shot. Unless Lue got the secret juice to make JR shoot 50% from deep I find it hard crediting him for the Cavs players being absolutely on fire from deep.

No part of the Cavs overachieved, if anything they underachieved so much under him in the regular season it took those postseasons for use to remember exactly how insanely talented those squads were on paper. Shump and JR were the 2nd and 3rd best players on the 9th seed Knicks (and the 2nd and 4th best players on the 2nd seed 2013 Knicks) and weren't even top 4 in Cleveland.

And defensive schemes on PG? The same PG that lit them up for 28/9/7 on 55 TS% while Indy had a 115.5 ORTG? Schemes on Demar Derozan, the same Demar Derozan that played worse against basically every other team he ever faced in the playoffs before going to San Antonio? Like come on... No one was saying this **** in 2017 when it was fresh in our minds, if anything the genius of Lue was in motivating them to play hard and getting out of the way in a way Blatt didn't.

Also he didn't innovate nothing with super small lineups. Like seriously what games and teams were you watching? This sounds more like a description of Kerr than Lue.

Ehh lue did run that strong iso 5 out system earlier than anyone else did in the playoffs and his Xs and Os on offense were pretty good. I think as an offensive coach hes solid, prolly better than doc. He prolly runs a 5 out better than most, alot of mismatch hunting comes from scheme as well, nuances of how screens are set and players are positioned

Hes not top tier and overall i wouldnt say hes better than any of the coaches in the final 4, but hes a solid offensive coach

That being said if they didnt adjust with lue at the bench idk why they would with him at the head

Idk about defense tho he had a good gameplan against the warriors in 2016 but thats about it i feel.

[MyUniBroDavis]

How yall feeling about jeff van gundy coaching the clips

Stans alot better lol

[RSCD3_]

:evil:

How yall feeling about jeff van gundy coaching the clips

Stans alot better lol

His last stint was a but uhhhhh tbh though

[E-Balla]

Ehh lue did run that strong iso 5 out system earlier than anyone else did in the playoffs and his Xs and Os on offense were pretty good. I think as an offensive coach hes solid, prolly better than doc. He prolly runs a 5 out better than most, alot of mismatch hunting comes from scheme as well, nuances of how screens are set and players are positioned

Hes not top tier and overall i wouldnt say hes better than any of the coaches in the final 4, but hes a solid offensive coach

That being said if they didnt adjust with lue at the bench idk why they would with him at the head

Idk about defense tho he had a good gameplan against the warriors in 2016 but thats about it i feel.

What you call an iso 5 out system I call playing his guys. I mean Blatt ran mostly the same lineups minus Channing Frye because he wasn't on the team yet. I see that more as a credit to David Griffin getting so many deadly shooters that can run the C position than I do see it as innovation by Lue. I mean he's not terrible with X's and O's but I don't think Doc is either. He's better with his rotations than Doc I'll give you that (Doc's rotations are heavily based on favoritism and it gets in the way more than anything else).