(LOCK THREAD) The LeBron James - 22-23 NBA Season Thread -NBA's All-Time Scoring Leader!

[DatAsh]

I have no idea how Lebron is still averaging 30ppg in his 20th year. This is insane. I have no idea how people still don't have him as the GOAT. While I can admit Jordan had a better prime, Jordan's prime was like 6 years (88-93). Lebron's prime was like 09-20, and 3 years later he's still averaging 30 a game.

Jordan was better at his best 1,3,6, arguably 9 seasons. Averaging 30ppg today its not the same, its more like averaging 30ppg in Wilt era.

Sure, 30ppg is not the same today as it was back then, a few counterpoints:

1. Lebron is not really a player of the current era. The first part of his career was in the toughest defensive era.
2. While I'll admit that 88-93 Jordan is better than any Lebron stretch, Lebron was 95% as good, and has lasted twice as long. It's honestly no contest. Unless you just completely ignore longevity, Lebron is the best ever, by a lot at this point.

IMO, Lebron surpassed Jordan in 2016, 7 years ago

[AEnigma]

Eh, I would take 2012-17 Lebron over 1988-93 Jordan without much consternation, bad back in 2015 and all. Jordan never showed me anything like what Lebron did on those Cavaliers teams, and even at his defensive best was not seeing the game and coaching against set plays the way Lebron was — who did all that while going up against some of the best teams and defences in league history. No one has come closer to “solving” basketball on an individual level. Ultimately a team sport, but Jordan is not grabbing three titles and six title appearances in his place.

[TroubleS0me]

The saddest Durant vs Westbrook playoff series

lol just realized its possible for them to have that series now that they are in the west

[homecourtloss]

The very first thread started as "LeBron's athletic decline from Cleveland to Miami" I think in like early 2012. Some comments that he looked like he was on the wrong side of his career and the decline was starting.

Imagine telling the people in that thread picking nits with his ability that he'd hit like 4 more peaks after that and still be averaging 30 ppg 11 years later

I don't think any player EVER in ANY sport (besides Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo) have surpassed their already high career expectations by THIS much.

June 1, 2011.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1116453&start=60

5 years after this thread, he comes back down 3-1 against Golden State.

7 years after this thread, he goes on his absurd 2018 playoff run.

9 years after this thread, he wins FMVP.

12 years after this thread, averaging 30/8/7 on 59% TS.

Some absolute gold from the thread:

He ALREADY is in decline, considering he's 26 yet not even as good as he was at 24 & 25. His body has completely fallen off. Now, he's improved significantly as a jump shooter to compensate for some of that, not to mention form a team where he doesn't have to carry a HUGE burden, so he'll still manage to be a great player for a few more years. But his prime is done and over with.

Malone's final appearance on the All-NBA First team was 1998-1999. He had logged 41662 minutes up until that time. So if Lebron is like Malone, he will have about five elite seasons left if he continues to log 3000 minutes a year. But Malone had an insane work ethic which played a major role in the man being so durable and in tip-top shape late into his career. I don't know if Lebron has that kind of work ethic.

When he hits 29 or 30, I think we'll see him tail off a bit. His game is far too dependent upon his athleticism for him to maintain this level of play into his early and mid thirties.

i think the karl malone comparison is the closest one because of weight and strenght

that would be sick

but lets say he is at 60% of his athletic and jumping abbility's when he turns 32 wich would be at the rate Kobe is at

a lebron at 60% jumping would still be like a prime Paul Pierce witch way better defence and passing

he is just too strong to "hope" he will fall of fast before he's 34 so i would say he has 6/7 Superstar seasons in him after that he could be around 21 , 6 ,8 (he won't lose his passing)

Nothing I said there was based on stats. The difference in LeBron's athleticism this season compared to the previous 7 seasons is night and day. People just can't accept it because they can't wrap their heads around a 26 year old regressing this significantly. More importantly, they associate winning with playing BETTER.

LeBron's not even 90% the player he was the last 2 seasons impact-wise.

Physically he's already in the early stages of declining but thats nothing out of the ordinary as a player he still has about 4 to 5 years left.

What’s absolutely hilarious is that the very same people who made the argument that he only does what he does because of his athletic abilities were the same people who said that when those athletic abilities go in decline (and they have—burst, speed, leaping, explosiveness, etc.) that he would rapidly fall off a cliff because he “didn’t have the same skills as Jordan or Kobe,” “no footwork,” “no moves,” etc., etc.

Now, a decade+ after that athletic decline, in a completely different league that values different things, he’s still a top 10+ player averaging 30 on 59% TS while being top 3/top 6/top 8/top 12 in RPM/RAPTOR WAR/EPM/Luck adjusted RAPM.

Those people who made those arguments have moved away from them and now try to portray this as LeBron simply playing “lots of games and step padding.“

When he hits 29 or 30, I think we'll see him tail off a bit. His game is far too dependent upon his athleticism for him to maintain this level of play into his early and mid thirties.

He ALREADY is in decline, considering he's 26 yet not even as good as he was at 24 & 25. His body has completely fallen off. Now, he's improved significantly as a jump shooter to compensate for some of that, not to mention form a team where he doesn't have to carry a HUGE burden, so he'll still manage to be a great player for a few more years. But his prime is done and over with.

2-3 years before his athleticism isn't extremely explosive anymore.

It's about habit, If he starts drinking, eating poorly and practicing less he's not gonna last as long as he can. But since he's a beast, he can play until he's 38 like It's nothing. Jerry Rice is the example to follow.

Doesn't matter if he does healthy things you can't stop your body from declining. But LeBron is more than a crash and bash athleticism player anyone who thinks otherwise is dumb.

Literally the memes

[AEnigma]

June 1, 2011.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1116453&start=60

5 years after this thread, he comes back down 3-1 against Golden State.

7 years after this thread, he goes on his absurd 2018 playoff run.

9 years after this thread, he wins FMVP.

12 years after this thread, averaging 30/8/7 on 59% TS.

Some absolute gold from the thread:

When he hits 29 or 30, I think we'll see him tail off a bit. His game is far too dependent upon his athleticism for him to maintain this level of play into his early and mid thirties.

2-3 years before his athleticism isn't extremely explosive anymore.

Literally the memes

“No real feel for the game, broken shot, will wash out in his early 30s as soon as he loses his athleticism.” People thought Lebron was tall Westbrook. And they wonder why their eye tests are not respected.

[parapooper]

As of ASG 2023:

list of all current players who have at least 2/3 of LeBron's RS+PS minutes:
Chris Paul (71.5% of LeBron's minutes)
Andre Iguodala (69%)

list of all current players who have at least 1/2 of LeBron's RS+PS minutes
Chris Paul
Andre Iguodala
Kevin Durant
Russell Westbrook
James Harden
Kyle Lowry
DeMar DeRozan
Al Horford
Rudy Gay
Stephen Curry
Mike Conley
Thaddeus Young
Jeff Green

list of all current players who have at least 1/2 of LeBron's RS+PS minutes and played more minutes than LeBron this season:
DeMar DeRozan (who has 57% of Lebron's minutes)

[xb3at band1tx]

Genuinely don't know what the Clips are doing. They were on fire WITHOUT Russ and now they have to figure out 20 or so games how to fit him in. Fit wise and on paper, I understand it but you can't fix his BBIQ and decision making. Every min. he takes from Mann or Bones or their other shooters is a massive win for the west imo

[nzahir]

get ready

Read on Twitter

Schedule loss. Clippers gonna play like it's their finals

Ehh its almost always a scheduled loss now in my head, but Russ' volatility could give us a chance

If its a close game and he wants to take over in the 4th, he may shoot the Clippers in the foot

Russ signing could be quite good for them, I am a bit scared of the backlash if Russ works out there

It is a much better fit and the clippers have more spacing

But Russ' awful defense, especially off ball, won't be fixed

Nor will his shooting (so sag off him and Zubac)

And the biggest thing is he will likely try to take over late in a close playoff game in the 4th and cost them

[trickshot]

Genuinely don't know what the Clips are doing. They were on fire WITHOUT Russ and now they have to figure out 20 or so games how to fit him in. Fit wise and on paper, I understand it but you can't fix his BBIQ and decision making. Every min. he takes from Mann or Bones or their other shooters is a massive win for the west imo

All these stars campaigning for WB need drug testing. They think they are getting a hardnosed, playmaking, high motor pg. First thing you notice is how close the negatives are to the positives. It's not like the good are coming in waves, they are coming with the bad sprinkled into every other play. Just how many bad decisions can be crammed into a good boxscore

[Gregoire]

I have no idea how Lebron is still averaging 30ppg in his 20th year. This is insane. I have no idea how people still don't have him as the GOAT. While I can admit Jordan had a better prime, Jordan's prime was like 6 years (88-93). Lebron's prime was like 09-20, and 3 years later he's still averaging 30 a game.

Jordan was better at his best 1,3,6, arguably 9 seasons. Averaging 30ppg today its not the same, its more like averaging 30ppg in Wilt era.

Sure, 30ppg is not the same today as it was back then, a few counterpoints:

1. Lebron is not really a player of the current era. The first part of his career was in the toughest defensive era.
2. While I'll admit that 88-93 Jordan is better than any Lebron stretch, Lebron was 95% as good, and has lasted twice as long. It's honestly no contest. Unless you just completely ignore longevity, Lebron is the best ever, by a lot at this point.

IMO, Lebron surpassed Jordan in 2016, 7 years ago

1. All of LeBron "longevity" is actually from this era. Inflated era.
2. Jordan was clearly better at peak, prime ect. Its not so close actually. Even if we assume that Lebron at his peak and prime (2007-2018) was 95% as good as MJ (87-98), which I dont think is the case, 90% more likely, I dont think its enough for Lebron to surpass MJ with 2019-2022 "longevity" in the inflated era. And this assuming we take additive approach, which I dont use in GOAT conversations, because In this case Kareem also is better than LeBron and Jordan.
I like holistic approach, where Peak and prime weighted significantly more than longevity without titles, much impact and in the inflated era. Basically who was the best at their best, when they "dominated" the league.

This board consists of huge amount of Lebron fanboys and nuthuggers, its obvious (you are not one of them), so its nonsentical to talk with them, its my last message in this thread, but I just admit, that all the people, casual and analytical minds, more or less have consencus who is the GOAT. And its not LeChoke.
Casual:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2267491&start=300
Analytics :
https://iswetha522.medium.com/jordan-vs-lebron-a-data-analytics-challenge-e4aa6d0fb095

A curtain!

[zimpy27]

Jordan was better at his best 1,3,6, arguably 9 seasons. Averaging 30ppg today its not the same, its more like averaging 30ppg in Wilt era.

Sure, 30ppg is not the same today as it was back then, a few counterpoints:

1. Lebron is not really a player of the current era. The first part of his career was in the toughest defensive era.
2. While I'll admit that 88-93 Jordan is better than any Lebron stretch, Lebron was 95% as good, and has lasted twice as long. It's honestly no contest. Unless you just completely ignore longevity, Lebron is the best ever, by a lot at this point.

IMO, Lebron surpassed Jordan in 2016, 7 years ago

1. All of LeBron "longevity" is actually from this era. Inflated era.
2. Jordan was clearly better at peak, prime ect. Its not so close actually. Even if we assume that Lebron at his peak and prime (2007-2018) was 95% as good as MJ (87-98), which I dont think is the case, 90% more likely, I dont think its enough for Lebron to surpass MJ with 2019-2022 "longevity" in the inflated era. And this assuming we take additive approach, which I dont use in GOAT conversations, because In this case Kareem also is better than LeBron and Jordan.
I like holistic approach, where Peak and prime weighted significantly more than longevity without titles, much impact and in the inflated era. Basically who was the best at their best, when they "dominated" the league.

This board consists of huge amount of Lebron fanboys and nuthuggers, its obvious (you are not one of them), so its nonsentical to talk with them, its my last message in this thread, but I just admit, that all the people, casual and analytical minds, more or less have consencus who is the GOAT. And its not LeChoke.
Casual:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2267491&start=300
Analytics :
https://iswetha522.medium.com/jordan-vs-lebron-a-data-analytics-challenge-e4aa6d0fb095

A curtain!

"LeChoke", "nonsentical", "nuthuggers", giving random %'s

Thanks for stopping by to feed the stereotype

[dcstanley]

Jordan was better at his best 1,3,6, arguably 9 seasons. Averaging 30ppg today its not the same, its more like averaging 30ppg in Wilt era.

Sure, 30ppg is not the same today as it was back then, a few counterpoints:

1. Lebron is not really a player of the current era. The first part of his career was in the toughest defensive era.
2. While I'll admit that 88-93 Jordan is better than any Lebron stretch, Lebron was 95% as good, and has lasted twice as long. It's honestly no contest. Unless you just completely ignore longevity, Lebron is the best ever, by a lot at this point.

IMO, Lebron surpassed Jordan in 2016, 7 years ago

1. All of LeBron "longevity" is actually from this era. Inflated era.
2. Jordan was clearly better at peak, prime ect. Its not so close actually. Even if we assume that Lebron at his peak and prime (2007-2018) was 95% as good as MJ (87-98), which I dont think is the case, 90% more likely, I dont think its enough for Lebron to surpass MJ with 2019-2022 "longevity" in the inflated era. And this assuming we take additive approach, which I dont use in GOAT conversations, because In this case Kareem also is better than LeBron and Jordan.
I like holistic approach, where Peak and prime weighted significantly more than longevity without titles, much impact and in the inflated era. Basically who was the best at their best, when they "dominated" the league.

This board consists of huge amount of Lebron fanboys and nuthuggers, its obvious (you are not one of them), so its nonsentical to talk with them, its my last message in this thread, but I just admit, that all the people, casual and analytical minds, more or less have consencus who is the GOAT. And its not LeChoke.
Casual:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2267491&start=300
Analytics :
https://iswetha522.medium.com/jordan-vs-lebron-a-data-analytics-challenge-e4aa6d0fb095

A curtain!

@ the "analytics" you cited

[rk2023]

Jordan was better at his best 1,3,6, arguably 9 seasons. Averaging 30ppg today its not the same, its more like averaging 30ppg in Wilt era.

Sure, 30ppg is not the same today as it was back then, a few counterpoints:

1. Lebron is not really a player of the current era. The first part of his career was in the toughest defensive era.
2. While I'll admit that 88-93 Jordan is better than any Lebron stretch, Lebron was 95% as good, and has lasted twice as long. It's honestly no contest. Unless you just completely ignore longevity, Lebron is the best ever, by a lot at this point.

IMO, Lebron surpassed Jordan in 2016, 7 years ago

1. All of LeBron "longevity" is actually from this era. Inflated era.
2. Jordan was clearly better at peak, prime ect. Its not so close actually. Even if we assume that Lebron at his peak and prime (2007-2018) was 95% as good as MJ (87-98), which I dont think is the case, 90% more likely, I dont think its enough for Lebron to surpass MJ with 2019-2022 "longevity" in the inflated era. And this assuming we take additive approach, which I dont use in GOAT conversations, because In this case Kareem also is better than LeBron and Jordan.
I like holistic approach, where Peak and prime weighted significantly more than longevity without titles, much impact and in the inflated era. Basically who was the best at their best, when they "dominated" the league.

This board consists of huge amount of Lebron fanboys and nuthuggers, its obvious (you are not one of them), so its nonsentical to talk with them, its my last message in this thread, but I just admit, that all the people, casual and analytical minds, more or less have consencus who is the GOAT. And its not LeChoke.
Casual:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2267491&start=300
Analytics :
https://iswetha522.medium.com/jordan-vs-lebron-a-data-analytics-challenge-e4aa6d0fb095

A curtain!

I don’t know if it intrigues me more that you were able to fit “nut huggers” and “LeChoke” a sentence apart or you sent an analytical article showing PPG as some cutting edge breakdown

Thank you for proving what we knew, that Jordan is a better scorer than James

[frica]

Jordan was better at his best 1,3,6, arguably 9 seasons. Averaging 30ppg today its not the same, its more like averaging 30ppg in Wilt era.

Sure, 30ppg is not the same today as it was back then, a few counterpoints:

1. Lebron is not really a player of the current era. The first part of his career was in the toughest defensive era.
2. While I'll admit that 88-93 Jordan is better than any Lebron stretch, Lebron was 95% as good, and has lasted twice as long. It's honestly no contest. Unless you just completely ignore longevity, Lebron is the best ever, by a lot at this point.

IMO, Lebron surpassed Jordan in 2016, 7 years ago

1. All of LeBron "longevity" is actually from this era. Inflated era.
A curtain!

If Longevity is from this era, where are all the other old players?

Average, medium and weighted average age has continuously dropped since Lebron entered the league:
https://www.thehoopsgeek.com/average-age-nba-players/

Share of old men in the league is also down, and has been down for a long while:
https://i0.wp.com/saltcityhoops.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/agedist9713.jpg

MJ was the one playing in an old man's league if anything.

Lebron is way ahead of every other active player by minutes
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/g_active_c.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/mp_active_c.html

If it was his era, where are the others?
The only semi-close ones are either already (practically) retired or having their worst season yet.

[Slava]

get ready

Read on Twitter

I quite honestly don't understand why the Clippers do this, outside of doing a solid to Jeff Schwartz. This clown said all the right things when he met with LeBron and Davis as well and when he gets on the court, he's going to do his own circus.

[Heej]

Jordan was better at his best 1,3,6, arguably 9 seasons. Averaging 30ppg today its not the same, its more like averaging 30ppg in Wilt era.

Sure, 30ppg is not the same today as it was back then, a few counterpoints:

1. Lebron is not really a player of the current era. The first part of his career was in the toughest defensive era.
2. While I'll admit that 88-93 Jordan is better than any Lebron stretch, Lebron was 95% as good, and has lasted twice as long. It's honestly no contest. Unless you just completely ignore longevity, Lebron is the best ever, by a lot at this point.

IMO, Lebron surpassed Jordan in 2016, 7 years ago

1. All of LeBron "longevity" is actually from this era. Inflated era.
2. Jordan was clearly better at peak, prime ect. Its not so close actually. Even if we assume that Lebron at his peak and prime (2007-2018) was 95% as good as MJ (87-98), which I dont think is the case, 90% more likely, I dont think its enough for Lebron to surpass MJ with 2019-2022 "longevity" in the inflated era. And this assuming we take additive approach, which I dont use in GOAT conversations, because In this case Kareem also is better than LeBron and Jordan.
I like holistic approach, where Peak and prime weighted significantly more than longevity without titles, much impact and in the inflated era. Basically who was the best at their best, when they "dominated" the league.

This board consists of huge amount of Lebron fanboys and nuthuggers, its obvious (you are not one of them), so its nonsentical to talk with them, its my last message in this thread, but I just admit, that all the people, casual and analytical minds, more or less have consencus who is the GOAT. And its not LeChoke.
Casual:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2267491&start=300
Analytics :
https://iswetha522.medium.com/jordan-vs-lebron-a-data-analytics-challenge-e4aa6d0fb095

A curtain!

Jeez man, what happened to you lmaooo. Never in my wildest dreams when I first saw you coming in to PC board as a complete noob hungry to learn about basketball did I think you'd become this much of a NPC using all these stereotypical phrases.

Also, those analytics you shared are really rudimentary. The more impact type metrics which better account for defense show LeBron being better. Saying LeBron was at best 90% as good as Jordan is wild lmao. Charles Barkley was probably 90% as good as MJ at his best

[Ian Scuffling]

Jordan was better at his best 1,3,6, arguably 9 seasons. Averaging 30ppg today its not the same, its more like averaging 30ppg in Wilt era.

Sure, 30ppg is not the same today as it was back then, a few counterpoints:

1. Lebron is not really a player of the current era. The first part of his career was in the toughest defensive era.
2. While I'll admit that 88-93 Jordan is better than any Lebron stretch, Lebron was 95% as good, and has lasted twice as long. It's honestly no contest. Unless you just completely ignore longevity, Lebron is the best ever, by a lot at this point.

IMO, Lebron surpassed Jordan in 2016, 7 years ago

1. All of LeBron "longevity" is actually from this era. Inflated era.
2. Jordan was clearly better at peak, prime ect. Its not so close actually. Even if we assume that Lebron at his peak and prime (2007-2018) was 95% as good as MJ (87-98), which I dont think is the case, 90% more likely, I dont think its enough for Lebron to surpass MJ with 2019-2022 "longevity" in the inflated era. And this assuming we take additive approach, which I dont use in GOAT conversations, because In this case Kareem also is better than LeBron and Jordan.
I like holistic approach, where Peak and prime weighted significantly more than longevity without titles, much impact and in the inflated era. Basically who was the best at their best, when they "dominated" the league.

This board consists of huge amount of Lebron fanboys and nuthuggers, its obvious (you are not one of them), so its nonsentical to talk with them, its my last message in this thread, but I just admit, that all the people, casual and analytical minds, more or less have consencus who is the GOAT. And its not LeChoke.
Casual:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2267491&start=300
Analytics :
https://iswetha522.medium.com/jordan-vs-lebron-a-data-analytics-challenge-e4aa6d0fb095

A curtain!

Did this idiot just say, "LeChoke" and expects anyone to take him seriously? As I said these people are caricatures of caricatures. To be pointed and laughed at.

[Heej]

Sure, 30ppg is not the same today as it was back then, a few counterpoints:

1. Lebron is not really a player of the current era. The first part of his career was in the toughest defensive era.
2. While I'll admit that 88-93 Jordan is better than any Lebron stretch, Lebron was 95% as good, and has lasted twice as long. It's honestly no contest. Unless you just completely ignore longevity, Lebron is the best ever, by a lot at this point.

IMO, Lebron surpassed Jordan in 2016, 7 years ago

1. All of LeBron "longevity" is actually from this era. Inflated era.
2. Jordan was clearly better at peak, prime ect. Its not so close actually. Even if we assume that Lebron at his peak and prime (2007-2018) was 95% as good as MJ (87-98), which I dont think is the case, 90% more likely, I dont think its enough for Lebron to surpass MJ with 2019-2022 "longevity" in the inflated era. And this assuming we take additive approach, which I dont use in GOAT conversations, because In this case Kareem also is better than LeBron and Jordan.
I like holistic approach, where Peak and prime weighted significantly more than longevity without titles, much impact and in the inflated era. Basically who was the best at their best, when they "dominated" the league.

This board consists of huge amount of Lebron fanboys and nuthuggers, its obvious (you are not one of them), so its nonsentical to talk with them, its my last message in this thread, but I just admit, that all the people, casual and analytical minds, more or less have consencus who is the GOAT. And its not LeChoke.
Casual:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2267491&start=300
Analytics :
https://iswetha522.medium.com/jordan-vs-lebron-a-data-analytics-challenge-e4aa6d0fb095

A curtain!

Did this idiot just say, "LeChoke" and expects anyone to take him seriously? As I said these people are caricatures of caricatures. To be pointed and laughed at.

Yea I'm sorry but if you're unironically using the phrase "LeChoke" in your posts then you need to go back to General Board or even Twitter. Nobody does that childish stuff here when it comes to talking about players. This guy makes that Dutchball97 dude look reasonable in comparison lol

[Ian Scuffling]

Especially, when the childish pejorative isn't factual in the least. He's one of the most clutch performers in the association's history. Just goofy stuff.

[magicman1978]

I wish the ignore feature would include the quoted posts as well. The people I have on ignore are always ones that get quoted and replied to way, way too often.