Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP

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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#381 » by 70sFan » Mon May 20, 2024 2:08 pm

OhayoKD wrote:SGA was better in the first round than Jokic was.

No, I don't agree with that at all.

You also shouldn't ignore SGA faced better two better offenses and wasn't the biggest defensive liablity in the playoffs (Granted if you take the "absolute value" instead of "value over replacement" approach you can maybe argue jokic's defense is better).

OK, but Jokic wasn't a liability on defense. He was targeted at times, but liability is too strong of a word. I do like SGA defense though, he's getting better on that end with time.

We can also say Murray had a terrible all-time series or whatever but no one on OKC was drawing away defensive attention to the degree Jamal did.

True, but OKC offense was built different - they had more creators in their roster and were not nearly as dependable on two guys doing everything on offense except for finishing. OKC supporting cast also disappointed, but not to the degree of Murray.
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#382 » by TroubleS0me » Wed May 22, 2024 10:23 pm

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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#383 » by Colbinii » Wed May 22, 2024 10:26 pm

SGA was not better against a terrible New Orleans team without Zion than Jokic was against a good Lakers team with healthy AD/LeBron.
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#384 » by GSP » Thu May 23, 2024 12:03 am

Colbinii wrote:SGA was not better against a terrible New Orleans team without Zion than Jokic was against a good Lakers team with healthy AD/LeBron.


Pels had a +5 net rating w/o Zion this season in 12 games (7-5). Terrible is wrong..... They still had All defense Herb Jones on him too but life was easier for Sga on defense w/o Zion. La was a better team than Pels minus Zion but not like they had the personnel to guard Jokic anyways
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#385 » by Colbinii » Thu May 23, 2024 12:06 am

GSP wrote:
Colbinii wrote:SGA was not better against a terrible New Orleans team without Zion than Jokic was against a good Lakers team with healthy AD/LeBron.


Pels had a +5 net rating w/o Zion this season in 12 games (7-5). Terrible is wrong..... They still had All defense Herb Jones on him too but life was easier for Sga on defense w/o Zion. La was a better team than Pels minus Zion but not like they had the personnel to guard Jokic anyways


AD with Rui is one of the best teams to guard the Nuggets.
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#386 » by Special_Puppy » Thu May 23, 2024 3:43 am

Colbinii wrote:
GSP wrote:
Colbinii wrote:SGA was not better against a terrible New Orleans team without Zion than Jokic was against a good Lakers team with healthy AD/LeBron.


Pels had a +5 net rating w/o Zion this season in 12 games (7-5). Terrible is wrong..... They still had All defense Herb Jones on him too but life was easier for Sga on defense w/o Zion. La was a better team than Pels minus Zion but not like they had the personnel to guard Jokic anyways


AD with Rui is one of the best teams to guard the Nuggets.


Lakers had the 17th best defense in the league this year.
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#387 » by rk2023 » Thu May 23, 2024 4:15 am

Special_Puppy wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
GSP wrote:
Pels had a +5 net rating w/o Zion this season in 12 games (7-5). Terrible is wrong..... They still had All defense Herb Jones on him too but life was easier for Sga on defense w/o Zion. La was a better team than Pels minus Zion but not like they had the personnel to guard Jokic anyways


AD with Rui is one of the best teams to guard the Nuggets.


Lakers had the 17th best defense in the league this year.


According to Jemele Hill, the Rui on Jokic defensive matchup was great for LA too
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#388 » by Mickey8 » Tue Jun 18, 2024 4:12 am

Switch Jokic with Doncic and Dallas would have won the title. Luka is not that guy. His playing style of the basketball is not the winning style.
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#389 » by bigboi » Tue Jun 18, 2024 4:33 am

Mickey8 wrote:Switch Jokic with Doncic and Dallas would have won the title. Luka is not that guy. His playing style of the basketball is not the winning style.


Yet Jokic couldn’t even make it out the second round
tlee324 wrote:
Lebron made it to the finals with that cleveland team.

Bird would have won 4 rings with that team, in this weak ass era of basketball.
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#390 » by One_and_Done » Tue Jun 18, 2024 4:38 am

Celtics, Mavs and OKC would all have beaten Denver too.
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#391 » by bigboi » Tue Jun 18, 2024 4:44 am

One_and_Done wrote:Celtics, Mavs and OKC would all have beaten Denver too.


I never thought Nuggets would beat Mavs lol. Idk what people are seeing there
tlee324 wrote:
Lebron made it to the finals with that cleveland team.

Bird would have won 4 rings with that team, in this weak ass era of basketball.
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#392 » by Special_Puppy » Tue Jun 18, 2024 2:20 pm

bigboi wrote:
Mickey8 wrote:Switch Jokic with Doncic and Dallas would have won the title. Luka is not that guy. His playing style of the basketball is not the winning style.


Yet Jokic couldn’t even make it out the second round


Its a team game. Gordon was basically the only non-Jokic Nugget who was above average these playoffs
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#393 » by bigboi » Tue Jun 18, 2024 4:12 pm

Special_Puppy wrote:
bigboi wrote:
Mickey8 wrote:Switch Jokic with Doncic and Dallas would have won the title. Luka is not that guy. His playing style of the basketball is not the winning style.


Yet Jokic couldn’t even make it out the second round


Its a team game. Gordon was basically the only non-Jokic Nugget who was above average these playoffs


Buddy, we don’t care. He LOST in the second round. Get over it, all these excuses
tlee324 wrote:
Lebron made it to the finals with that cleveland team.

Bird would have won 4 rings with that team, in this weak ass era of basketball.
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#394 » by Special_Puppy » Tue Jun 18, 2024 5:27 pm

bigboi wrote:
Special_Puppy wrote:
bigboi wrote:
Yet Jokic couldn’t even make it out the second round


Its a team game. Gordon was basically the only non-Jokic Nugget who was above average these playoffs


Buddy, we don’t care. He LOST in the second round. Get over it, all these excuses


"I don't care about context at all when assessing a player"
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#395 » by tsherkin » Tue Jun 18, 2024 8:55 pm

bigboi wrote:
Special_Puppy wrote:
bigboi wrote:
Yet Jokic couldn’t even make it out the second round


Its a team game. Gordon was basically the only non-Jokic Nugget who was above average these playoffs


Buddy, we don’t care. He LOST in the second round. Get over it, all these excuses



So you grind Jordan for everything before 91 too, right?
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#396 » by TroubleS0me » Tue Jun 18, 2024 10:32 pm

One_and_Done wrote:Celtics, Mavs and OKC would all have beaten Denver too.


no way
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#397 » by One_and_Done » Tue Jun 18, 2024 10:40 pm

TroubleS0me wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:Celtics, Mavs and OKC would all have beaten Denver too.


no way

I'm not even sure they beat a healthy Bucks team, provided it has a competent coach.
Warspite wrote:Billups was a horrible scorer who could only score with an open corner 3 or a FT.
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#398 » by bigboi » Wed Jun 19, 2024 3:47 pm

Special_Puppy wrote:
bigboi wrote:
Special_Puppy wrote:
Its a team game. Gordon was basically the only non-Jokic Nugget who was above average these playoffs


Buddy, we don’t care. He LOST in the second round. Get over it, all these excuses


"I don't care about context at all when assessing a player"


There is no context at all actually. Jokic on the Mavs loses first round against the clippers. Making up hypothetical situations that aren’t based in reality is just silly.
tlee324 wrote:
Lebron made it to the finals with that cleveland team.

Bird would have won 4 rings with that team, in this weak ass era of basketball.
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#399 » by Special_Puppy » Wed Jun 19, 2024 5:13 pm

bigboi wrote:
Special_Puppy wrote:
bigboi wrote:
Buddy, we don’t care. He LOST in the second round. Get over it, all these excuses


"I don't care about context at all when assessing a player"


There is no context at all actually. Jokic on the Mavs loses first round against the clippers. Making up hypothetical situations that aren’t based in reality is just silly.


"Making up hypothetical situations that aren't based in reality is silly"

*Proceeds to say that Jokic would have lost to a Clippers team without Kawhi Leonard*
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#400 » by rk2023 » Wed Jun 19, 2024 6:51 pm

Colbinii wrote:SGA was not better against a terrible New Orleans team without Zion than Jokic was against a good Lakers team with healthy AD/LeBron.


Idk how or why some posters on here (namely one) have tried to begin pushing this narrative. I’d love to see how the process of it plays out too
Mogspan wrote:I think they see the super rare combo of high IQ with freakish athleticism and overrate the former a bit, kind of like a hot girl who is rather articulate being thought of as “super smart.” I don’t know kind of a weird analogy, but you catch my drift.

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