2023-24 NBA Season Discussion

[LukaTheGOAT]

I still think Denver would have beaten us if they had made it to the Finals. I think it was prior to the series, I wrote the only hope of stopping Den was Minnesota with their length, and well that's what happened.

[parsnips33]

Complete hoops aesthete victory, dancing on heliocentrism's grave & Ben Taylor is DJing

(don't mind me, just trying to spice up a somewhat boring Finals)

[penbeast0]

Complete hoops aesthete victory, dancing on heliocentrism's grave & Ben Taylor is DJing

(don't mind me, just trying to spice up a somewhat boring Finals)

Aesthetic disaster; next season even more teams will be spamming even more 3's while post play is even more neglected. It's not aesthetically pleasing when every team does the same 2 or 3 things every play.

[Special_Puppy]

Complete hoops aesthete victory, dancing on heliocentrism's grave & Ben Taylor is DJing

(don't mind me, just trying to spice up a somewhat boring Finals)

Aesthetic disaster; next season even more teams will be spamming even more 3's while post play is even more neglected. It's not aesthetically pleasing when every team does the same 2 or 3 things every play.

I mean most teams don't have 6 viable 3 point shooters in their top 6.

[parsnips33]

Complete hoops aesthete victory, dancing on heliocentrism's grave & Ben Taylor is DJing

(don't mind me, just trying to spice up a somewhat boring Finals)

Aesthetic disaster; next season even more teams will be spamming even more 3's while post play is even more neglected. It's not aesthetically pleasing when every team does the same 2 or 3 things every play.

At least there's ball movement and off-ball play, but yeah 5 out has it's own aesthetic deficiencies

[sp6r=underrated]

Aside, I hate the term heliocrentrism.

[Texas Chuck]

I'm okay with all kinds of basketball. Watching Luka or Harden do their work is something to behold. Watching an undersized high school team run Princeton is cool too. 40 minutes of Hell was fun. Loyola Marmount speeding up the game and spamming 3's decades before it was cool was fun. I liked when the Heat and Knicks used to play first team to 70.

But I get not every style is for everyone. So yeah I see why a Warriors guy is enjoying Boston over Dallas. Reminds them of beating Lebron/Kyrie.

[itsxtray]

I think Caitlin Clark kinda proves that spamming deep threes is what the masses find most entertaining. Women's basketball has a chance to break into the mainstream because of it. This is intuitive to me because there was nothing like Curry hitting four or five threes back-to-back; it would leave my jaw on the floor, and I'm not even a Warriors fan.

[sp6r=underrated]

I think Caitlin Clark kinda proves that spamming deep threes is what the masses find most entertaining. Women's basketball has a chance to break into the mainstream because of it. This is intuitive to me because there was nothing like Curry hitting four or five threes back-to-back; it would leave my jaw on the floor, and I'm not even a Warriors fan.

It seems fairly clear little players spamming 3s and super athletics wings relentlessly attacking the hoop are popular with fans and that bigs, groundbound "pure" point guards are not.

[parsnips33]

I'm okay with all kinds of basketball. Watching Luka or Harden do their work is something to behold. Watching an undersized high school team run Princeton is cool too. 40 minutes of Hell was fun. Loyola Marmount speeding up the game and spamming 3's decades before it was cool was fun. I liked when the Heat and Knicks used to play first team to 70.

But I get not every style is for everyone. So yeah I see why a Warriors guy is enjoying Boston over Dallas. Reminds them of beating Lebron/Kyrie.

I'm mostly being tongue-in-cheek. Luka and Kyrie are both showstoppers, to say nothing of how effective they are. I couldn't see myself actually getting bored watching them, they're just capable of doing too much crazy ****

But yeah I'll happily admit that I find a more egalitarian spread the love offense more fun to watch in general

[ronnymac2]

The league needs to step in and do something about this. Boston doesn't have any true superstars (commercials, movies, all-star voting, etc.), and they play just an awful brand of basketball that is going to be rewarded because they won a war or attrition in their conference. Fair play on that from the competitive side of things, but it's bad for the game/league going forward.

I'm not calling for his job, but I think Bert Stevens needs to be at least investigated. Much as I dislike the Celtics, their lineage of all-time basketball minds is legendary. They may have deployed the three greatest on-court minds of all time in Bill Russell, Larry Bird, and Kevin Garnett. Now...look at them. Nearly every possession is just jump chucking.

It's too late to adjust this series without making it too obvious, but something needs to be done going into next season after this result. With the new TV deal incoming, maybe Silver and the powers that be experiment further in terms of regulating how refs call games. Maybe some rule changes? I don't know, but I would hope that we hardcore fans would act as stewards of the game, not cheerlead for boneheaded "strategy" that is obviously bad for the health of the league going forward.

[Special_Puppy]

The league needs to step in and do something about this. Boston doesn't have any true superstars (commercials, movies, all-star voting, etc.), and they play just an awful brand of basketball that is going to be rewarded because they won a war or attrition in their conference. Fair play on that from the competitive side of things, but it's bad for the game/league going forward.

I'm not calling for his job, but I think Bert Stevens needs to be at least investigated. Much as I dislike the Celtics, their lineage of all-time basketball minds is legendary. They may have deployed the three greatest on-court minds of all time in Bill Russell, Larry Bird, and Kevin Garnett. Now...look at them. Nearly every possession is just jump chucking.

It's too late to adjust this series without making it too obvious, but something needs to be done going into next season after this result. With the new TV deal incoming, maybe Silver and the powers that be experiment further in terms of regulating how refs call games. Maybe some rule changes? I don't know, but I would hope that we hardcore fans would act as stewards of the game, not cheerlead for boneheaded "strategy" that is obviously bad for the health of the league going forward.

What would Brad Stevens be investigated for.

[ronnymac2]

What would Brad Stevens be investigated for.

I don't know, could be for whatever. I'm not saying can the guy or find him guilty of anything, but the message would be to not create a roster based around this "strategy."

[Colbinii]

Once again the easy fix is eliminating the corner "short" 3.

[itsxtray]

I think Caitlin Clark kinda proves that spamming deep threes is what the masses find most entertaining. Women's basketball has a chance to break into the mainstream because of it. This is intuitive to me because there was nothing like Curry hitting four or five threes back-to-back; it would leave my jaw on the floor, and I'm not even a Warriors fan.

It seems fairly clear little players spamming 3s and super athletics wings relentlessly attacking the hoop are popular with fans and that bigs, groundbound "pure" point guards are not.

Yep. Women's basketball only really had one viable option for popularity since women can't replicate what people like about the super athletic slashers' playstyle; bombing 3's had to be it.

[ronnymac2]

Once again the easy fix is eliminating the corner "short" 3.

I think this would be the most reasonable place to start. There is precedent with the league manipulating the placement of the 3-point line (1995-1997).

Much more radical would be fiddling with the value of certain shots within the arc. Maybe paint shots are 3 points. Or maybe shots under the arc and outside the paint - typically called midrange shots - increase in value. This would be such a deviation from the past 75+ years that it would almost certainly necessitate an asterisk in stat/record books.

Manipulating some aspect of the 3-point line itself is A.) realistic, and B.) likely enough to curtail the issue.

[OverAndOut]

I know the Celtics are getting a lot of hate for this style, but wasn’t it the 2017 Rockets that really started this? I think they were the first team to ever average attempting 40+ 3s in a season (40.3, jumped to 42.3 in 2018)

I’ve seen some people blame the Warriors, but I don’t think so:

2015 Warriors: 27.0 3PA/G
2016 Warriors: 31.6 3PA/G
2017 Warriors: 31.2 3PA/G
2018 Warriors: 28.9 3PA/G

[mstat13shuh]

While there are at least a few asterisks attached to the recent scoring surge(& I admittedly haven't participated in awhile for personal reasons, nor have I read this forum in it's entirety yet)I have a few notes I feel the need to mention:

1) Indiana was the 1st NBA/ABA team since the 71-72 Lakers(if 1 factors in the 3pt line)to average at least 123.2ppg in the regular season & advance to the Conference Finals(yes, injuries to top Milwaukee & New York stars, admittedly, ARE significant factors; nonetheless, this accomplishment, I feel, should be recognized for what it is, as high scoring offensive players & teams have been underrated defensively over the years by much of the public & press).

2) The NBA boasted 3 teams averaging at least 120ppg for an entire season, the last season this occurred was in 69-70, where an NBA record 8 teams averaged that many(if 1 factors in the 3pt line).

3) The last season 2 teams averaged at least 120ppg for an entire season & faced each other in the conference finals was 67-68, when Boston & Philadelphia faced each other in the Eastern Division Finals(if 1 factors in the 3pt line).

4) The last season the Celtics averaged as many ppg as they did for an entire season & made the playoffs was 66-67, Bill Russell's initial season as player coach(if 1 factors in the 3pt line).

5) The last season the Celtics averaged as many ppg as they did for an entire season & made the Finals was 62-63.
(if 1 factors in the 3pt line)

6) The last season the Celtics averaged as many ppg as they did for an entire season & won the title was 62-63.
(if 1 factors in the 3pt line)

7) This will be the 1st season the Celtics win a title averaging at least 120ppg for an entire season with a so-called Afro-American head coach at the helm.

8) This will be the 1st season an NBA/ABA wins a title averaging at least 120ppg for an entire season with a so-called Afro-American head coach at the helm.

All the above being said, I still must begrudgingly acknowledge the obvious admission that there are critics abound(& understandably so sometimes), who will insist that because of the recent rule changes implemented to foster higher offensive totals(no handchecking, reset of 24 second clock to 14 following an offensive rebound, emphasis on the 3pt line, etc)these achievements should, if nothing else, at least be taken with a few grains of salt or two.

While I do believe some truth exists for this, I will also state equally as emphatically that there are still numerous individuals who will continue to insist(& whom I believe, always will) that the accomplishments of players & teams of the Wilt Chamberlain/Bill Russel era be underemphasized(or even disrespected) because of the pace, average number of FGA, average number of minutes, number of possessions, average number of shots being attempted at the rim creating significantly higher shot-blocking opportunities for the 2 of them(not to mention numerous other big men of that era), rules favoring the defense exponentially more than the offense regardless of pace, etc.

While these assertions do hold at least some reasonable weight, I must also close with the following:

I'd personally like to poll a myriad of NBA players & coaches to see how they would face in an era where:

A) you played 3, 4, 5 & sometimes more, games in as many days
B) you played in Converse shoes with no ankle support
C) you played in an era with no free agency
D) you played in an era with racial quotas on most teams
E) you played in an era with bigoted owners(even some so-called White players)
F) you played in an era with no so-called Black referees until 1966
G) you played in an era with a reserve(really slave)contract
H) you played in an era where the Players Union was struggling for basic rights

(& perhaps additional things which don't immediately come to mind for me)

As a prime example of what I just referenced above, consider the following as a glaring example:

In late January 1967, Oscar Robertson played 6 consecutive games in as many days.

He only missed 2 total minutes the entire 6 games!

All while being President of the Players' Association!

How much rest do you believe HE off all the players received during that span(much less uninterrupted rest)?

Does anybody out there even remotely believe that Michael Jordan of all people could pull off this feat,
all the while enduring the 8 bullet points I mentioned above?

Again, in closing, I'm not in any way attempting to overemphasize the Wilt/Russell era & underemphasize the modern era, as a number of the above situations still do sadly exist to a large degree(Kyrie issue with the elixir & online posts certainly being chief among them).

I'm merely attempting to place all the above issues into what I consider to be their appropriate context as much as possible.



Thank you very much.

[mstat13shuh]

I must make a slight correction here:

"In late January 1967, Oscar Robertson played 6 consecutive games in as many days.

He only missed 2 total minutes the entire 6 games!



All while being President of the Players' Association!"

Oscar actually missed 3 minutes, not 2, for the respective 6 games, upon further review.

Jan 24 '67 vs NYK: 47min
Jan 25 '67 vs NYK: 48min
Jan 26 '67 vs Det: 48min
Jan 27 '67 vs Phi: 48min
Jan 28 '67 vs STL: 48min
Jan 29 '67 vs SFW: 46min

Smh, still astonishing the responsibilities he had to fulfill, not merely for that time span,
but also for that season, as well as numerous additional ones.

Anybody you can think of who could accomplish such a feat today?
(Even Josh Hart & Jimmy Butler, for starters?)

[itsxtray]

This is the best article I've read on the power of the 3 pointer and why nerfing it is a good idea.

https://deanondraft.substack.com/p/its-time-to-nerf-the-3-pointer?r=24q2x6&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&triedRedirect=true