2024-25 NBA Season Discussion

[eminence]

How many of those guys won MVP+Finals MVP in the same season?

Finals MVP starting '69, MVP '56 (I think Mikan/Russell/Wilt would join these ranks, chance for '55 Schayes)

'70 Reed
'71 KAJ
'83 Moses
'84/'86 Bird
'87 Magic
'91/'92/'96/'98 MJ
'94 Hakeem
'00 Shaq
'03 Duncan
'12/'13 LeBron

You forgot Step-

oh right

Yeah...

Also, I forgot Cousy won the '57 MVP, he would've had a pretty decent chance at the FMVP too I imagine.

[falcolombardi]

Nba championship lets go!!!

[EmpireFalls]

Finals MVP starting '69, MVP '56 (I think Mikan/Russell/Wilt would join these ranks, chance for '55 Schayes)

'70 Reed
'71 KAJ
'83 Moses
'84/'86 Bird
'87 Magic
'91/'92/'96/'98 MJ
'94 Hakeem
'00 Shaq
'03 Duncan
'12/'13 LeBron

You forgot Step-

oh right

Yeah...

Also, I forgot Cousy won the '57 MVP, he would've had a pretty decent chance at the FMVP too I imagine.

I’d imagine Mikan, Cousy, Wilt in ‘67, and Russell all would’ve done this

[lessthanjake]

I know this is an uncomfortable thought for many, but a modern and more talented Jordan seeing their team fall off in the playoffs this way carries implications for the era-portability of the original article.

Especially when SGA only shot 28.3% from three in the playoffs, and just 35.6% in RS+playoffs combined this year (the latter of which is right in line with Jordan’s 3P% in the playoffs in the years before the three-point line was moved in, and a bit below what Jordan averaged in the two regular seasons in the non-moved-in-three-point-line years in which he actually shot threes with any real volume)..

How does Shai, who shoots more at a higher clip while facing significantly more defensive coverage on a wider variety of three-types, being brought down to 28% in the playoffs, help Jordan, the far worse 3-point shooter who wasn't even above average during his own playing period?

You’ll find that many (and maybe even most) players—Jordan included—tend to shoot better from three when they increase their volume. It’s surely because they get in a better rhythm from shooting them more and because a smaller percent of them are grenades or heaves. Jordan tended to shoot more threes in the playoffs, and he shot 35.2% from three in the playoffs before the three-point-line was moved in, and he shot 35.2% and 37.6% from three in the two non-shortened-line regular seasons in which he actually shot threes with any real volume. So yeah, I’d say SGA shooting 28% from three in the playoffs and winning the title is pretty strong evidence that Jordan’s three-point shooting would be very much fine in this era. The three-point shot diet for Jordan would be a bit different these days (likely more off-the-dribble threes), so we can’t say for sure how he’d shoot today, but the fact that Jordan shot similar or better from three than SGA did this year (similar if we look at RS+Playoffs for SGA and better than SGA if we just look at playoffs) in times when he upped his volume is pretty strong evidence in his favor, and you’re left having to make some pretty cynical assumptions to get to a different conclusion (i.e. for instance, that a guy who was incredible at taking shots off the dribble and didn’t have a set shot would somehow crumble if his three-point shot diet moved more towards off-the-dribble threes).

[falcolombardi]

Cannot wait for next season now, we playing with house money now

[CKRT]

Haliburton's injury took the air out of the game for me personally. Horribly sad way to end the season and will haunt those players forever.

OKC were dominant all year and pulled it out after a mostly good, sometimes lackluster playoff run, be interesting to see if that poise improves as the CBA starts forcing Presti to make some tough decision. I absolutely do not believe this OKC team to be the juggernaut I expected them to entering the playoffs. When I think back on this playoff run, I'll be thinking about the Pacers more than the champs which feels weird.

[Peregrine01]

They should shorten the season imo.

[cpower]

They should shorten the season imo.

why? Hali playing through bad injury...it was going to happen - 2019 KD was the same.

[TheGOATRises007]

They should shorten the season imo.

Less money for everyone involved, so they'll never do it.

[GSP]

They should shorten the season imo.

Yeah back to backs and stretches where teams play 7 games in 10 days has to end. Too much strain even tho a lot of them load manage now

[GSP]

They should shorten the season imo.

Less money for everyone involved, so they'll never do it.

These finals ratings were the lowest in decades and 3 stars (Dame, Jayson, Hali) including 2 Olympians tore their achilles this run. Nba interest domestically has already been declining not fixing this along with lack of true American superstars in 20s era could be bad for the league long term. Nfl already started taking over normally Nba dominated events and schedules and they could do it for anything Nba puts out

[lessthanjake]

I know it’s not much of a hot take, but I really think this OKC team is probably a major dynasty. Chet and Jalen Williams are in their age-22 and age-23 seasons. They’re almost certain to improve in the next few years, and maybe significantly. Meanwhile, SGA is young enough that he’s probably got at least half a decade more at a pretty similar level to this, maybe even more. They’ll have to pay Chet and Jalen Williams a lot in a couple years, but they’re so deep with good players (none of which are old—and some of which are young enough that they’ll probably improve) that they can lose people and really be fine. That’ll probably mitigate the effect of Chet and Jalen Williams improving, but OKC doesn’t actually need to improve on this year in order to be a dynasty. They were incredibly good this year and would’ve beaten every team the vast majority of times they’d play them IMO.

I would think that the Celtics could maybe be a counterweight to OKC. But Tatum will be out next year and may never be the same, and it’s not clear to me that Boston won’t blow the team up a bit in the meantime. So I just don’t know that we’ll ever get something from them that’s anywhere near as good as the 2024 team. If we did, then they could definitely compete with this Thunder team.

Overall, it just feels like 1991 Bulls or 2015 Warriors to me.

[GSP]

With Jayson and Hali out there is a chance we could see the Orlando Magic or Detroit Pistons in the Nba finals.................this 20s era is gonna be remembered for its parity and how many different teams won or made the finals for the 1st time ever or in decades

If im Giannis im staying in the East.....Pacers Imo were Bucks roughest matchup. I was scared to see them in a series. Theyll still be dangerous but assuming they have something for Dame issue or Giannis to Miami or something staying East guarantees an easy path to the finals

[LukaTheGOAT]

I know this is an uncomfortable thought for many, but a modern and more talented Jordan seeing their team fall off in the playoffs this way carries implications for the era-portability of the original article.

Shai hasn't even lapped Kobe in terms of talent to be talking like this.

[CKRT]

With Jayson and Hali out there is a chance we could see the Orlando Magic or Detroit Pistons in the Nba finals.................this 20s era is gonna be remembered for its parity and how many different teams won or made the finals for the 1st time ever or in decades

Yeah, if you're an East team you gotta swing for the fences right now and hope whoever comes out of the West is banged up.

[GSP]

I know it’s not much of a hot take, but I really think this OKC team is probably a major dynasty. Chet and Jalen Williams are in their age-22 and age-23 seasons. They’re almost certain to improve in the next few years, and maybe significantly. Meanwhile, SGA is young enough that he’s probably got at least half a decade more at a pretty similar level to this, maybe even more. They’ll have to pay Chet and Jalen Williams a lot in a couple years, but they’re so deep with good players (none of which are old—and some of which are young enough that they’ll probably improve) that they can lose people and really be fine. That’ll probably mitigate the effect of Chet and Jalen Williams improving, but OKC doesn’t actually need to improve on this year in order to be a dynasty. They were incredibly good this year and would’ve beaten every team the vast majority of times they’d play them IMO.

I would think that the Celtics could maybe be a counterweight to OKC. But Tatum will be out next year and may never be the same, and it’s not clear to me that Boston won’t blow the team up a bit in the meantime. So I just don’t know that we’ll ever get something from them that’s anywhere near as good as the 2024 team. If we did, then they could definitely compete with this Thunder team.

We dont know how much Chet and Jalen will improve tho. They should but by how much? Jalen was All Nba and All Defense and had a brief Finals Mvp push. He outplayed Ant in Wcf. Hes already really **** good. Is he gonna get much better? We'll see. For Chet he doesnt have the handles do expand his offensive game too much and hes already one of the best defenders. I think he'll improve but dunno by how much on offense. Then theres Chets injury history. Missed whole rookie season and missed 50 games this season.

Even w/ how great Sga, Jalen and Chet were this year, the depth w/ Dort, Ihart, Cason, Keinrich, Wiggins they straight up lose in the 2nd round if they dont make the Caruso trade who was arguably their 2nd most valuable playoff performer. Caruso himself has injury issues too missed 30 this season and has missed half or most the season a few times in his career

[lessthanjake]

I know it’s not much of a hot take, but I really think this OKC team is probably a major dynasty. Chet and Jalen Williams are in their age-22 and age-23 seasons. They’re almost certain to improve in the next few years, and maybe significantly. Meanwhile, SGA is young enough that he’s probably got at least half a decade more at a pretty similar level to this, maybe even more. They’ll have to pay Chet and Jalen Williams a lot in a couple years, but they’re so deep with good players (none of which are old—and some of which are young enough that they’ll probably improve) that they can lose people and really be fine. That’ll probably mitigate the effect of Chet and Jalen Williams improving, but OKC doesn’t actually need to improve on this year in order to be a dynasty. They were incredibly good this year and would’ve beaten every team the vast majority of times they’d play them IMO.

I would think that the Celtics could maybe be a counterweight to OKC. But Tatum will be out next year and may never be the same, and it’s not clear to me that Boston won’t blow the team up a bit in the meantime. So I just don’t know that we’ll ever get something from them that’s anywhere near as good as the 2024 team. If we did, then they could definitely compete with this Thunder team.

We dont know how much Chet and Jalen will improve tho. They should but by how much? Jalen was All Nba and All Defense and had a brief Finals Mvp push. He outplayed Ant in Wcf. Hes already really **** good. Is he gonna get much better? We'll see. For Chet he doesnt have the handles do expand his offensive game too much and hes already one of the best defenders. I think he'll improve but dunno by how much on offense. Then theres Chets injury history. Missed whole rookie season and missed 50 games this season.

Even w/ how great Sga, Jalen and Chet were this year, the depth w/ Dort, Ihart, Cason, Keinrich, Wiggins they straight up lose in the 2nd round if they dont make the Caruso trade who was arguably their 2nd most valuable playoff performer. Caruso himself has injury issues too missed 30 this season and has missed half or most the season a few times in his career

I think the improvement from Jalen will be better consistency rather than becoming way better than the level that he’s able to show now. As for Chet, I think injury issues for him could derail the Thunder being a dynasty (though they played incredibly without him this year). But, absent injury, I do expect him to improve. He’s already amazing defensively, but I think he’ll become even better defensively with more experience in the league. And I think he will learn where/how to assert himself offensively more, though I agree he’s almost certainly not going to become an offensive powerhouse. These don’t sound like big things, but I think those kinds of improvements could end up significant.

I also think it’s worth noting that they’re going to now have championship experience. It’s rare for teams without much playoff experience to win a title. They did it this year anyways, because they’re incredibly good. But, moving forward, they won’t be a team without much playoff experience. Quite the opposite. So I think we’d expect them to handle inferior teams even better in subsequent years.

I do agree, though, that injuries could derail them, and not just to Chet. You make a good point about Caruso. There’s enough injury concerns here that I expect there probably will be a non-zero number of years where they just can’t really win the title because they’re not healthy. But my baseline expectation is that that won’t be all (or even most) years, and that they’ll be able to win titles most of the time when healthy. Which is enough to be a major dynasty. Of course, there could be some catastrophic injury that completely closes their window out of nowhere, but I’m just assuming that won’t happen.

[TheGOATRises007]

OKC is in better position to win multiple titles than Boston last season, but I also thought Boston would easily get back to the NBA finals for 2-3 straight seasons and their entire trajectory changed this season.

A lot can change in 1 year.

[EmpireFalls]

I still find it difficult to parse how much OKC’s weird struggles this playoffs were due to inexperience or were actual flaws due to not having any elite 3 point shooters and general lack of offensive plan. Of course the shooter could be addressed easily (someone like Cam Johnson) but they would get bogged down into the mud way too often with only SGA able to initiate any offense. Daigneault does not run a very creative or fluid offensive system.

It could just be inexperience and I could just be talking out my ass. But I didn’t like their offensive process this playoffs at all, and I think there are real structural questions to be asked of it.

[OhayoKD]

Especially when SGA only shot 28.3% from three in the playoffs, and just 35.6% in RS+playoffs combined this year (the latter of which is right in line with Jordan’s 3P% in the playoffs in the years before the three-point line was moved in, and a bit below what Jordan averaged in the two regular seasons in the non-moved-in-three-point-line years in which he actually shot threes with any real volume)..

How does Shai, who shoots more at a higher clip while facing significantly more defensive coverage on a wider variety of three-types, being brought down to 28% in the playoffs, help Jordan, the far worse 3-point shooter who wasn't even above average during his own playing period?

You’ll find that many (and maybe even most) players—Jordan included—tend to shoot better from three when they increase their volume.

Woah, players take more shots when they're go in at a higher percentage?
The problem of course is that the very next year his percentage plummeted. Actually, in the playoffs, that percentage plummeted. And for his career that percentage is much much lower, even with two years with a shortened line bolstering him.

Jordan didn't shot threes "at volume" in the first place, and that was despite those shots generally being wide-open for him. Shai being able to double Jordan's volume in any year, with a much harder shot-diet, while maintaining a similar percentage as Jordan's best years, tells us he's a much better three-point shooter.

Citing that at an attribute Jordan is far less skilled at, his counterpart was effectively flummoxed, does not support Jordan's status as a "great playoff riser" being "era-portable". If anything it would go against it.