2023-24 NBA Season Discussion

[LukaTheGOAT]

ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE

[eminence]

Strong end to a strong season from the Celtics, really enjoy all the guys on their squad and how they play.

[Texas Chuck]

Strong end to a strong season from the Celtics, really enjoy all the guys on their squad and how they play.

Was thinking the same thing. Not an unlikeable guy among the guys who play anyway. I wanted to drum up some sports hate while the series was going on, but it felt very Spurs like in that when they were the constant obstacle for Dallas in the 00's, it was hard to dislike any of them either.

[EmpireFalls]

It’s hilarious that Tatum didn’t win either ECFMVP or FMVP. Despite leading his team in points rebounds and assists, they don’t view him as the straw that stirs the drink. It’s disrespectful, but also such a good representation of his place in the superstar hierarchy, that ultimately I think it’s perfect.

[eminence]

Interested to see if there will be any real FA power shifts this year, Sixers/Magic/Thunder the squads to watch imo.

OG/Siakam/George/Harden/LeBron the clear top 5 non-restricted free agents. Claxton/Hartenstain a pair of solid young bigs, could see OKC going that route at a bit more affordable price. Buddy is elite in his role, if somebody can get him on an exception I'd love that deal.

KCP may be able to squeeze a pretty penny out of the Nuggets, or may blow up a contender, can't see them taking another serious depth hit if he goes elsewhere.

Hope Utah at least calls OG, wouldn't mind DLo either, but more likely we'll have to find our guys in the draft/trades.

[TheGOATRises007]

Most loaded team since the KD Warriors

Well deserved title

[Special_Puppy]

Pretty unfortunate that the Timberwolves defeated the team that had the best chance of beating the Celtics (the Phoenix Suns)

[Hoopstar23]

Most loaded team since the KD Warriors

Well deserved title

I don't know about that I think the 2023 Nuggets can beat this Celtics team...even the 2019 Raptors can challenge this team... 2021 Bucks might challenge this team... I don't think this Celtics team is on the 17 Warriors realm

[OhayoKD]

Joe Mazulla as a champion is going to lead to peak content next season

[OhayoKD]

Why would Shai take it over Jokic though? Jokic was by far the MVP, and I don't think played demonstrably worse against Minnesota than Shai did against Dallas. The gap in the RS just seems too big to overcome, and Jokic didn't play poorly in the playoffs at all.

Shai was the better RS player, won more in the same conference, and was clearly better in the playoffs on a team that also did better. Wierd take. Are you forgetting defense and ball-handling as aspects of basketball?

I haven’t been following the thread that closely, so if it was posted and discussed in more real time, then I’m not familiar, but what would be your case for SGA over Jokic in the RS?

As for your question at the end, dude stop with the condescension.

You, 2 days ago:

Ranking LeBron’s 2011 Finals over Kobe’s 2011 vs the Mavs is indefensible. Literally no case for it.

LeBron was better overall that year, but that series isn’t anywhere close to the reason why, he failed worse than Kobe did. I think you really need to stop arguing things that you never watched or don’t remember and are clearly just depending on BBR at this point.

Jokic being far ahead of shai or luka over the regular season is a terrible, or as you might say, indefensible, take imo.

The "why can't we be civil' from people who drop those standards the second it gets convenient is also a terrible approach, but to each their own.

[rk2023]

Strong end to a strong season from the Celtics, really enjoy all the guys on their squad and how they play.

I don’t like to see it, but credits’ due where it’s due. At least all of them seem like class acts and outstanding team players as well (and at that, I’m very ecstatic to see Al Horford not retire ringless )

[The-Power]

Congrats to Boston! Incredible season and very deserved title. I'm happy for this group of players to have won a championship.

On a side note: Any one of Tatum, Brown and Holiday could have won the FMVP. I would have preferred (thinking about it holistically) they had handed it to someone other than Brown considering he already won the ECF MVP and it would have been more fitting for this Celtics team to have the recognition spread out. I just hope the discussion around Tatum doesn't turn too toxic (who am I kidding, though).

[therealbig3]

Shai was the better RS player, won more in the same conference, and was clearly better in the playoffs on a team that also did better. Wierd take. Are you forgetting defense and ball-handling as aspects of basketball?

I haven’t been following the thread that closely, so if it was posted and discussed in more real time, then I’m not familiar, but what would be your case for SGA over Jokic in the RS?

As for your question at the end, dude stop with the condescension.

You, 2 days ago:

Ranking LeBron’s 2011 Finals over Kobe’s 2011 vs the Mavs is indefensible. Literally no case for it.

LeBron was better overall that year, but that series isn’t anywhere close to the reason why, he failed worse than Kobe did. I think you really need to stop arguing things that you never watched or don’t remember and are clearly just depending on BBR at this point.

Jokic being far ahead of shai or luka over the regular season is a terrible, or as you might say, indefensible, take imo.

The "why can't we be civil' from people who drop those standards the second it gets convenient is also a terrible approach, but to each their own.

Honestly asking, what is the case for SGA over Jokic in the RS? I'm curious to know if I'm missing something, or if there's a perspective I didn't consider.

Also, an equally terrible approach is to say "see, you did it too" as if that absolves you of doing the same. Meh.

[therealbig3]

Congrats to Boston! Incredible season and very deserved title. I'm happy for this group of players to have won a championship.

On a side note: Any one of Tatum, Brown and Holiday could have won the FMVP. I would have preferred (thinking about it holistically) they had handed it to someone other than Brown considering he already won the ECF MVP and it would have been more fitting for this Celtics team to have the recognition spread out. I just hope the discussion around Tatum doesn't turn too toxic (who am I kidding, though).

Tatum sucks, obvi.

[therealbig3]

It’s hilarious that Tatum didn’t win either ECFMVP or FMVP. Despite leading his team in points rebounds and assists, they don’t view him as the straw that stirs the drink. It’s disrespectful, but also such a good representation of his place in the superstar hierarchy, that ultimately I think it’s perfect.

I'd argue it's not really disrespectful, but a reflection of reality. He wasn't the singular best player in either the ECF or Finals. And that's ok. He's still their best player overall, but someone else shined brighter in those two respectful series.

[ardee]

Gotta be honest, that turned into a fairly boring season by the end. And I don't say that because the Celtics won, I don't even really consider myself a Lakers fan anymore, I'm more of a Kobe fan if anything and now a LeBron fan which is mainly why I root for the Lakers.

Just very few storylines by the end, compare it to last season when you had the upstart Heat slicing through the East even with their star man playing injured or the grizzled veteran Lakers/Warriors series or Jokic playing at a level we haven't seen since peak LeBron.

This year just really didn't do it for me. Like I said in another thread, maybe it's the fact that all the 2010s stars are on their way out.

I hope the LeBron/Steph/Durant/Russ/Harden/CP3/Kawhi generation gets one last hurrah these next couple years. After that, not sure how much I'll be able to bring myself to care....

[tsherkin]

It’s hilarious that Tatum didn’t win either ECFMVP or FMVP. Despite leading his team in points rebounds and assists, they don’t view him as the straw that stirs the drink. It’s disrespectful, but also such a good representation of his place in the superstar hierarchy, that ultimately I think it’s perfect.

He didnt deserve either, but he especially didnt deserve the Finals MVP. There was nothing disrespectful about it, that's nonsense.

[The-Power]

It’s hilarious that Tatum didn’t win either ECFMVP or FMVP. Despite leading his team in points rebounds and assists, they don’t view him as the straw that stirs the drink. It’s disrespectful, but also such a good representation of his place in the superstar hierarchy, that ultimately I think it’s perfect.

He didnt deserve either, but he especially didnt deserve the Finals MVP. There was nothing disrespectful about it, that's nonsense.

Tatum wasn't any less deserving than Brown. Same goes for Holiday. It was a team effort with those three standing out. In an ideal world, Tatum gets recognition for at least one of the two last series because as it currently stands, the awards suggest Brown's primacy and separation in the last two series when this does not reflect reality. Tatum was still their most important player in the aggregate. But I'm sure Tatum and the Celtics can live with the results and it may serve as motivation for Tatum and fuel him as it did Curry. In the end, Tatum's legacy has just started to be built.

[tsherkin]

It’s hilarious that Tatum didn’t win either ECFMVP or FMVP. Despite leading his team in points rebounds and assists, they don’t view him as the straw that stirs the drink. It’s disrespectful, but also such a good representation of his place in the superstar hierarchy, that ultimately I think it’s perfect.

He didnt deserve either, but he especially didnt deserve the Finals MVP. There was nothing disrespectful about it, that's nonsense.

Tatum wasn't any less deserving than Brown. Same goes for Holiday. It was a team effort with those three standing out. In an ideal world, Tatum gets recognition for at least one of the two last series because as it currently stands, the awards suggest Brown's primacy and separation in the last two series when this does not reflect reality. Tatum was still their most important player in the aggregate. But I'm sure Tatum and the Celtics can live with the results and it may serve as motivation for Tatum and fuel him as it did Curry. In the end, Tatum's legacy has just started to be built.

Finals MVP has not reflected just "the focal player on the title team" in any kind of recent memory. And he was so bad at scoring that it was inevitable that he wasnt going to win it.

It's true that he was drawing and kicking well, rebounded well and stuff. He was useful and contributing, but he was also so brutal at scoring that it overwhelms that for the purpose of recognition.

As you say, I'm sure Tatum and Boston dont really care. They achieved the goal and won the title. But Tatum also clearly wasnt the best player in the series and there are MANY examples over the past quarter century of the focal guy not winning it just because he filled that role.

[The-Power]

He didnt deserve either, but he especially didnt deserve the Finals MVP. There was nothing disrespectful about it, that's nonsense.

Tatum wasn't any less deserving than Brown. Same goes for Holiday. It was a team effort with those three standing out. In an ideal world, Tatum gets recognition for at least one of the two last series because as it currently stands, the awards suggest Brown's primacy and separation in the last two series when this does not reflect reality. Tatum was still their most important player in the aggregate. But I'm sure Tatum and the Celtics can live with the results and it may serve as motivation for Tatum and fuel him as it did Curry. In the end, Tatum's legacy has just started to be built.

Finals MVP has not reflected just "the focal player on the title team" in any kind of recent memory. And he was so bad at scoring that it was inevitable that he wasnt going to win it.

It's true that he was drawing and kicking well, rebounded well and stuff. He was useful and contributing, but he was also so brutal at scoring that it overwhelms that for the purpose of recognition.

As you say, I'm sure Tatum and Boston dont really care. They achieved the goal and won the title. But Tatum also clearly wasnt the best player in the series and there are MANY examples over the past quarter century of the focal guy not winning it just because he filled that role.

Certainly Tatum struggled to score for much of the series but I think it's been overblown in comparison to Brown.

Tatum: 22.2 PPG on 50.5% TS
Brown: 20.8 PPG on 53.5% TS

The scoring gap really isn't all that noteworthy. It's a couple bucks give or take in a series that was not close for the most part. So the question to me is who was more valuable in determining the dynamics of the game that led to the considerable difference between these two teams? And I still have to side with Tatum here as the person who was clearly the focus of the Mavs defense, who initiated most of the offense, and whose defensive versatility was key to Boston's scheme on that end (without taking away from Brown's laudable man-defense).

And even if you side with Brown here (fair enough), to say that Tatum “especially didn't deserve Finals MVP” goes much too far and I find it hard to back that kind of statement up when comparing him to his direct competition (rather than the average Finals MVP). But that's just my two cents.