Magic vs. Bird :: year-by-year

[JordansBulls]

Bird's Celtics got upset 7 times. 1980, 1982, 1983, 1985, 1988, 1990 and 1991.

I consider an upset when you lose with HCA.

And is there a context to some of those "upsets"? Were some of the teams perhaps better than their records indicated, just like the 2003 or 2010 Lakers for instance... were some of those teams only a handful of games ahead, an amount so small you'd be unsurprised if it didn't necessarily reflect which team was better, factors like "injuries one expects in the course of the regular season" and other trivial variables.

Come on, let's have a little honesty here... Bird was not a choker whose team got beaten by inferior teams that many times... a few maybe, but there's a context here you're intentionally ignoring by just saying "7 times". It's annoying, and makes you look biased.

He lost more series with HCA than any other superstar and also never won any playoffs series without it.

[JordansBulls]

1990 - Old/injured Bird loses in deciding game to Knicks. Bird misses a critical reverse in the 4th Q because he can't even jump -- typical of that season. Yet people cite this as a knock against Bird (as if it has anything to do with Bird the player from 80 to 88.)

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=943052

Celtics were 52-30 that year while the Knicks were 45-37.


Mchale, Bird, Parish, Lewis and DJ all played 75+ games that year.


In the 1st round series the Celtics were up 2-0 and then lost 3 in a row including the last game of the series at home.

In that playoffs:

Bird averaged 24/9/9 on 44% with a PER of 21
Mchale averaged 22/9/3 on 61% with a PER of 20
Parish averaged 16/10/3 on 57% with a PER of 19
Lewis averaged 20/5/5 on 60% with a PER of 18
DJ averaged 14/3/6 on 48% with a PER of 12


For the Knicks Ewing averaged 28/10/3 on 52% with a PER of 25 and then Wilkins was the next highest scorer at 15/4/5 on 46% FG with a PER of 16.

[Reasonable Fan]

Bird's Celtics got upset 7 times. 1980, 1982, 1983, 1985, 1988, 1990 and 1991.

I consider an upset when you lose with HCA.

And is there a context to some of those "upsets"? Were some of the teams perhaps better than their records indicated, just like the 2003 or 2010 Lakers for instance... were some of those teams only a handful of games ahead, an amount so small you'd be unsurprised if it didn't necessarily reflect which team was better, factors like "injuries one expects in the course of the regular season" and other trivial variables.

Come on, let's have a little honesty here... Bird was not a choker whose team got beaten by inferior teams that many times... a few maybe, but there's a context here you're intentionally ignoring by just saying "7 times". It's annoying, and makes you look biased.

He lost more series with HCA than any other superstar and also never won any playoffs series without it.

So you feel no compunction about being intellectually dishonest here... there is no need to go into more detail about any of these series he lost, particularly in light of the above post by Jordan23forever...

Funny story... the Spurs lost in the first round with HCA in 2000... what chokers.

[Zeitgeister]

Bird's Celtics got upset 7 times. 1980, 1982, 1983, 1985, 1988, 1990 and 1991.

I consider an upset when you lose with HCA.

And is there a context to some of those "upsets"? Were some of the teams perhaps better than their records indicated, just like the 2003 or 2010 Lakers for instance... were some of those teams only a handful of games ahead, an amount so small you'd be unsurprised if it didn't necessarily reflect which team was better, factors like "injuries one expects in the course of the regular season" and other trivial variables.

Come on, let's have a little honesty here... Bird was not a choker whose team got beaten by inferior teams that many times... a few maybe, but there's a context here you're intentionally ignoring by just saying "7 times". It's annoying, and makes you look biased.

He lost more series with HCA than any other superstar and also never won any playoffs series without it.

You are so firmly entrenched in the HCA argument that you'd cut off your own hand before straying away from it!

[Shot Clock]

He discovered Jordan didn't lose with HCA which is rather unique so he's strapped himself on that horse and is riding it until it dies.

[JordansBulls]

So you feel no compunction about being intellectually dishonest here... there is no need to go into more detail about any of these series he lost, particularly in light of the above post by Jordan23forever...

Funny story... the Spurs lost in the first round with HCA in 2000... what chokers.

And Duncan didn't play even 1 game in that series.

Fact is is that you win 80-90% of the series you have HCA and 20-50% of the series you don't.

So let's say you had 15 series with HCA you will probably win 12 or 13 of those 15. But if you had 10 series where you did not have HCA you may win from 2-5 of those series.

[KING JAMES1978]

I can't understand why some people continue to use HCA as a parameter when compare who player is the best.
It's really idiotic.
Let's say Jordan's team had lost with Home court advantage 5-6 times.That's would make him a worst player??BS.
Deserve Kobe more credit because he won last year with Home court when at last game had 6-24 and because of his teammates won the ring?
So idiotic parameter really.
Bird at his best was better than Magic at his best.I'm fan of both players but the reality is this.

[JordansBulls]

I can't understand why some people continue to use HCA as a parameter when compare who player is the best.
It's really idiotic.
Let's say Jordan's team had lost with Home court advantage 5-6 times.That's would make him a worst player??BS.
Deserve Kobe more credit because he won last year with Home court when at last game had 6-24 and because of his teammates won the ring?
So idiotic parameter really.
Bird at his best was better than Magic at his best.I'm fan of both players but the reality is this.

I just want to know why people downplay it as if it meant nothing. The HCA is applies when guy are fairly close overall in the all time list.

So Iverson being 4-0 with it or Dumars 12-0 with it doesn't apply when asking if they are better than Bird.

But a guy like Duncan who is close to Bird or Shaq and Bird, that is where you can use the HCA argument. Or in this case Magic and Bird.

[Reasonable Fan]

So you feel no compunction about being intellectually dishonest here... there is no need to go into more detail about any of these series he lost, particularly in light of the above post by Jordan23forever...

Funny story... the Spurs lost in the first round with HCA in 2000... what chokers.

And Duncan didn't play even 1 game in that series.

Fact is is that you win 80-90% of the series you have HCA and 20-50% of the series you don't.

So let's say you had 15 series with HCA you will probably win 12 or 13 of those 15. But if you had 10 series where you did not have HCA you may win from 2-5 of those series.

Oh my god, I had no idea Duncan missed the 2000 series, I was 100% serious is making that claim... I was not at all trying to suggest that sometimes you need to look a little deeper at things.

[Ginobili]

Bump.

Interesting thread.

[Shot Clock]

Bump a 2010 thread?

[Not Bias]

He discovered Jordan didn't lose with HCA which is rather unique so he's strapped himself on that horse and is riding it until it dies.

dat dere attachment

[DrProphet]

I especially liked the "1985 is a wash" comment.

Oh, you mean the other year where Magic was better in the playoffs and won the championship (over Bird).

Funny how Jordan fans are usually the ones harping about playoff dominance, excellence and winning...

I'd take Magic over Bird. In fact, I voted Magic #1 in 1985 because he won the title over Bird without HCA.

I agree with having Magic over Bird in '85, but that's such a stupid reason for it.

[JordansBulls]

Bump.

Interesting thread.

Why would you bump this unless you were adding some more criteria or explanation to the thread?

[acrossthecourt]

I only consider guys GOAT-worthy when they've won without HCA and the other arena was at least 800 miles away. Honestly. I think that's pretty obvious.

Whoops. Forgot the font color. Anyway, I'm surprised at how unanimous it is that Magic is ahead of Bird on all-time lists, and how wide the separation is sometimes (like number 4 versus number 8.) Is there anyone who takes Bird over Magic? Why or why not?