Switch LeBron with Durant, do both teams get better?

[kasino]

Idk i think they would be better and worst for it
Heat currently have 2 top 5 players and seperating them would mean less talent on the team
but giving Wade a weapon(shooter) like Durant would work wonders for spacing for slashing and easy assists when Wade draws multiples.

Lebron is Lebron we know he is great but losing Wade is losing his closer and I while a think Lebron is many things a closer isn't one of them. His OKC would still be dominant and Westbrook would find alot more time as an off-guard and who knows what an athlete/player like West could do without the focus on him from the ball in his hand.

hmm guess OKC kinda guess worst

[mopper8]

I really don't see how the Thunder don't get better. People are acting as if Lebron still can't shoot. Welcome to 2011. The only Durant is better than Lebron at is 3 point shooting (slightly). Lebron is better or at least equal at everything else.

People are also forgetting that the Thunder would be much much much better in the open court.

Lebron is becoming underrated. lol

I pretty much agree. You have to really consider the serious upgrade in ability and folks are too focused on blend.

Now consider the downgrade in production that is guaranteed from Westbrook and Harden.

...and now think about how much better the defense will be with Lebron.

[Laimbeer]

It wasn't blindly, they took who was available. If Dwight had been willing and able to come, and they took LeBron over him, then you could question them. It seems to me signing James and Bosh, while maybe not perfect, is a marvelous use of cap space.

And let's give them the playoffs and maybe another year before we draw conclusions about the team.

I'm obviously talking about you blindly taking Lebron over Durant for OKC in this hypothetical situation where both of them are availabe...not the Heat in real life.

You chopped your post off - "Haven't the Heat taught you that you can't just blindly take top talents?"

Sure seemed like you were referring to the Heat.

[Rapcity_11]

Idk i think they would be better and worst for it
Heat currently have 2 top 5 players and seperating them would mean less talent on the team
but giving Wade a weapon(shooter) like Durant would work wonders for spacing for slashing and easy assists when Wade draws multiples.

Lebron is Lebron we know he is great but losing Wade is losing his closer and I while a think Lebron is many things a closer isn't one of them. His OKC would still be dominant and Westbrook would find alot more time as an off-guard and who knows what an athlete/player like West could do without the focus on him from the ball in his hand.

hmm guess OKC kinda guess worst

You say Lebron's not a closer?

http://www.backpicks.com/wp-content/upl ... clutch.jpg

Wrong.

[Rapcity_11]

...and now think about how much better the defense will be with Lebron.

Yup. Defense gets better, offense gets worse. Net is pretty much the same.

[Rapcity_11]

It wasn't blindly, they took who was available. If Dwight had been willing and able to come, and they took LeBron over him, then you could question them. It seems to me signing James and Bosh, while maybe not perfect, is a marvelous use of cap space.

And let's give them the playoffs and maybe another year before we draw conclusions about the team.

I'm obviously talking about you blindly taking Lebron over Durant for OKC in this hypothetical situation where both of them are availabe...not the Heat in real life.

You chopped your post off - "Haven't the Heat taught you that you can't just blindly take top talents?"

Sure seemed like you were referring to the Heat.

Haven't the Heat taught YOU that YOU can't just blindly take top talents...

You, as in you know...YOU.

[drza]

Interesting case of talent vs blend. Ultimately, though, I do think LeBron makes the Thunder better. I agree with those that point out the current Thunder with LeBron instead of Durant could make a case for the best defense in the NBA. And while the offensive spacing isn't ideal, let's not act like the offense would just be terrible. The logical move would be for them to pick up a role-player 3-point shooting wing (pretty much a dime a dozen) and put him in the wing rotation. But even without that, they're still going to be in the top-half of offenses just based on talent. A #1 defense and a top-12 offense is the formula that the Celtics have been riding to so much success recently.

As for Miami...yes, the defense loses a bit. But I think many in this thread have focused too much on the Wade/Durant fit, when in reality Durant fits better with the whole offense. The hierarchy of ball-handling becomes much more traditional, with Wade and whoever is playing PG knowing that will be their role. Wade becomes the full-time crunch-time initiator, a role he has embraced his whole career before struggling to balance this year. Bosh is free to spend more time in the paint without worrying about being in the way of LeBron's drives, and Durant creates more spacing for him to operate when he gets the ball. And he is able to get more touches earlier in the shot-clock because of Durant's ability to dominate off-the-ball. And the Heat would be able to cut back on their role-player shooters, allowing more rounded role players to get more run and maybe help the defense that way. In the end, I do think they'd be a better team.

So, all that said, I'd answer the OP question...yes, both teams get better.

[Rapcity_11]

Interesting case of talent vs blend. Ultimately, though, I do think LeBron makes the Thunder better. I agree with those that point out the current Thunder with LeBron instead of Durant could make a case for the best defense in the NBA. And while the offensive spacing isn't ideal, let's not act like the offense would just be terrible. The logical move would be for them to pick up a role-player 3-point shooting wing (pretty much a dime a dozen) and put him in the wing rotation. But even without that, they're still going to be in the top-half of offenses just based on talent. A #1 defense and a top-12 offense is the formula that the Celtics have been riding to so much success recently.

I can agree with some of this for sure. The offense wouldn't be terrible, no doubt. No offense with Lebron would ever be, really. The thing about this scenario is that we have to take the teams as is. We can't make any roster shuffles even if they make sense. Also consider how much this hurts Westbrook. He's clearly not the most mature guy and he really needs the ball to have success. He's not going to pull a D-Wade and be happy off the ball. Same with Harden? He becomes just a corner shooter. How do you think the offense would work?

Lebron Iso's with Westbrook, Thabo, Ibaka and Perkins would be pretty inneffective a lot of the time I'm thinking as teams would really force the other guys to hit long jumpshots. Add in the fact that Scott Brooks is a pretty terrible offensive X & O guy, I don't like the mix.

How does OKC run the offense in your opinion and how does it work?

[mattg]

I don't think Sefolosha would even play much to be honest. He is the Thunder's weak point IMO. He stinks at everything besides on ball defense and OKC overly relies on him to stop elite wings. They only play him because they have no one else. He really isn't good and has become retardedly overrated since joining okc. Adding LBJ gives them an elite defender who also isn't useless on the other side of the floor. They could afford to play Harden or any other random spot up shooter to help floor spacing without really hurting the defense.

[drza]

Interesting case of talent vs blend. Ultimately, though, I do think LeBron makes the Thunder better. I agree with those that point out the current Thunder with LeBron instead of Durant could make a case for the best defense in the NBA. And while the offensive spacing isn't ideal, let's not act like the offense would just be terrible. The logical move would be for them to pick up a role-player 3-point shooting wing (pretty much a dime a dozen) and put him in the wing rotation. But even without that, they're still going to be in the top-half of offenses just based on talent. A #1 defense and a top-12 offense is the formula that the Celtics have been riding to so much success recently.

I can agree with some of this for sure. The offense wouldn't be terrible, no doubt. No offense with Lebron would ever be, really. The thing about this scenario is that we have to take the teams as is. We can't make any roster shuffles even if they make sense. Also consider how much this hurts Westbrook. He's clearly not the most mature guy and he really needs the ball to have success. He's not going to pull a D-Wade and be happy off the ball. Same with Harden? He becomes just a corner shooter. How do you think the offense would work?

Lebron Iso's with Westbrook, Thabo, Ibaka and Perkins would be pretty inneffective a lot of the time I'm thinking as teams would really force the other guys to hit long jumpshots. Add in the fact that Scott Brooks is a pretty terrible offensive X & O guy, I don't like the mix.

How does OKC run the offense in your opinion and how does it work?

I do see the potential issues, but I figure it like this. Out of the entire NBA, perhaps only three teams (Lakers, Celtics, Magic) have the bigs to prevent LeBron from getting to the rim consistently and finishing even if they pack the lane. I'm not the biggest LeBron fan, but when he decides to go to the rim he's essentially a force of nature. So I think that he would be able to put most team defenses on their heels even despite a lane-clogging philosophy.

Second, I agree with the previous post that Sefolosha would sit more. While it wouldn't be kosher for us to assume trades, there's no reason we couldn't start Harden or that former 3-point shootout winner Daequan Cook (and his 42% shooting from 3-point range) couldn't become a larger part of the rotation as well.

And I do acknowledge the weakness of moving Westbrook off the ball more, especially the psychological part. On the other hand, Westbrook played fewer than 35 minutes/game this year. I'd make sure 10 of those minutes are the 10 that LeBron was off the court, and in the other 24 they could make it work. Westbrook isn't a natural PG, but he's more of one than Wade is which I think would allow him to do a bit more ball-handling than Wade while still allowing LeBron to be in position to attack instead of just standing in the corner without the ball. They might even be able to run some pick-and-roll (I've never really figured out why the Heat don't run more of that). Either way, though, I don't think it would really be an ISSUE per se. There are enough touches for LeBron and Westbrook to both be effective, especially since there's no third (Bosh) figure to also take touches. Perkins is an offensive garbage-man only, and even Ibaka isn't calling for the ball in the post, so a line-up with 2 primary initiators isn't so awful.

Harden is a secondary player anyway, so I'm not really worried about him. He's getting a "raise", so to speak, by moving into the starting line-up anyway. I probably make him the first sub anyway, letting Daequan come in for him. Or maybe I even start Cook, and let the Harden/Thabo unit be my 2-piece off the bench that gets to feature more with Westbrook when LeBron's on the bench.

Either way, I don't think the offense would really struggle. Two dynamic on-ball perimeter players isn't awful, especially given the lack of other players that need touches. And by working more of the shooters already on the team into the mix, I think their offense would be fine. But with an improved defense.

[Don Draper]

It has nothing to do with underrating Lebron. He's still the best player in the game, but that doesn't mean you can throw him in any lineup and the team is automatically a favorite to win a ring. I don't think anyone said he can't shoot. His improved his stroke but he's still at 33% behind the stripe. You're putting him on the floor where your best lineup highlights him as the teams best shooter. Teams are going to pack the paint, and take their chances with Lebron winning the game from behind the arc.

That lineup also forces Westbrook off the ball, which is going to take away a lot of his scoring opportunities, and he also won't be able to facilitate the way he would with Durant. Passing the ball to Durant off of curls is not the same as passing the ball to Bron off one. Then as Rapcity said, that takes away from Harden's game as well. To maximize shooting he'll have to take on the Jame Jones role. Go stand in the corner and wait for a kick out. There's more to consider here than just talent.
OKC would still be strong, but I don't see them really improving.

Durant is a SLIGHTLY better 3pt shooter. Let's not act as if he has some huge advantage.

So do we ignore the fact that Lebron is one of the best playmakers in the game? You do really think his teammates wouldn't get better looks than with Durant? Be serious. You guys are acting like Bosh and Dwayne Wade aren't getting their numbers on great efficiency. Wade isn't a great three point shooter but he seems to be doing well with LeBron.

[GreenHat]

I think many of the people in this thread are just looking at the offensive side of the ball

Put Lebron on the Thunder and they would win more games because of Lebron's defense and playmaking.

Durant fits better in the offense next to Wade and Bosh because Lebron's playmaking is somewhat redundant but the Heat already have a top 3 offense anyway and their defense would take a hit.

The Heat's offense would get better but their defense would get worse. OKC's offense would be about the same but their defense would get better with lebron.

Those OKC teammates are way better than Lebron's teammates in Clevland and he wins 60+ with them pretty easily.

[JordansBulls]

As for Miami...yes, the defense loses a bit. But I think many in this thread have focused too much on the Wade/Durant fit, when in reality Durant fits better with the whole offense.

The Heat would have much more balance IMO with Durant there because he is more of a scorer and shooter than ball handler. That leaves Wade to make the plays which he is accustomed to doing.