Wilt vs Shaq

[LascelleL]

Dipper do you always have to use newsclippings?

[34Dayz]

Wilt on several noteworthy occasions rose for a dunk with a helpless defender clinging to the ball — and lifted both the ball and his opponent with ease.

This made me laugh.

[JordansBulls]

Wilt was never able to average 30 ppg in any finals series despite doing it for his career.

[Dipper 13]

But let's stop acting like Wilt couldn't be rivaled by one Shaquille O'Neal.

Never have I said this. To me it would be a tremendous matchup, both bringing their A game.

[Dipper 13]

Please don' forget that there like 35 years between the two, in that time there have been huge improvements as far as nutrition and training methods (and chemical help...).
Wilt had the bodytype to carry as uch weight as Shaq, but it's very hard to mantain it during the season and, anyway, he couldn' afford so many pounds in league running so much up and down.

Yes he may have bulked up even more after retirement.

[34Dayz]

[FuShengTHEGreat]

You're absolutely right. It seemed like he had a particular lust for embarrasing the Admiral. I remember how he would take pride in destroying players like DRob, Sabas, Vlade, and Deke. He did elevate his game against Akeem, but he didn't seem to want to hurt him- just play great against him. And I think it was because he had the ultimate respect for Dream.

LOL....more Shaq lover revisionism as usual. Before age and injury set in where exactly did Shaq embarrass DRob? Please don't post some nonsensical link of Shaq dunking him through the rim because that's to be expected when you give away 60-70 lbs and athleticism to someone younger than you. Show me proof instead of Shaq dominating these matchups when you talk of "embarrassing". Drob/spurs gave Shaq all he could handle his first few years in the league when they met.

Deke, divac, Sabs......? None of these guys proved capable of being a matchup problem for any elite Center in NBA history, but you seem to feel it's some sort of achievement to embarrass these guys.

And Hakeem....Shaq didn't want to hurt him? HAHAHA. He repeatedly dunked Dream through the rim at will and barreled his way over him and Hakeem still had 30+ point games despite this. I don't see "prime" Shaq being anymore of a matchup dilemma than 95 Shaq. Shaq even said himself: "He was the only guy I ever faced in my career that I couldn't mentally break or get under his skin."

[jaypo]

Hey, jackhole. Why don't you quit seeking me out and posting crap. I'm trying to have a civil discussion about 2 great athletes with intelligent people, and you come in here and lower the average IQ in the place!

Let me refer you to the ASG the year that Shaq posted one of the most memorable facials of all time. A time where even MJ was in awe. And after MJ won the ASG MVP, he said he'd give it to Shaq so Shaq wouldn't take his anger out on the league. Does that ring a bell? Or let's look at head to head- Shaq- 26.1 ppg on 54%, 12.1 rpg, and 2.7 bpg. DRob- 18.6 ppg, 10.0 rpg, 1.6 bpg on 47%.

And as for your last nonsense paragraph, you proved my point. So thank you!

[jaypo]

Fusheng- serious question. It's clear that your only purpose on these threads is to bash Shaq and belittle his accomplishments (even though most of the civilized world has him listed at #7 all time). Why is that? Why do you hate him so much? Did he run over your dog or something?? But seriously, why do you dump on him so much? I hated Dennis Rodman when he played, but I don't dump on him. I actually respect his contributions to the game. I hated the Showtime Lakers while they were playing, but I love their historical significance. So tell me why you hate him so much?

[FuShengTHEGreat]

^^
Wrong....nobody hates Shaq. Actually I prefer him to Wilt because he was more nastier of a player vs. His opponents and did not regress for the most part in the playoffs.

IN your haste to heap praise on your hero you fail to address the overall picture.

-No Shaq did not embarrass DRob before his back injury. Go re-watch the games and/or check the boxscores. DC dunked on Shaq....was Shaq totally overall embarrassed by DC as a result of this play by your logic?

-Shaq didn't hurt Hakeem in the manner he did to other players, because he was incapable of doing so at any stage of his career....not because he didn't go as hard against him......Hakeem was made of stronger stuff. You are quite the comedian to insist Shaq would obliterate a fellow top5 center at the zenith of his career. The truth is they'd have great battles back and forth with one outplaying the other one day, and then vice versa the next day. The same goes for Jabbar and Wilt that you always boast of Shaq being unstoppable one on one against.

You have issues with that and want to name call and be upset, well I can't help you there.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Or let's look at head to head- Shaq- 26.1 ppg on 54%, 12.1 rpg, and 2.7 bpg. DRob- 18.6 ppg, 10.0 rpg, 1.6 bpg on 47%.

This H2H is skewed by Robinson getting older and deferring more to Duncan.
What about seasons from 92 to 98, when both are closer to their prime and both first options?

David Robinson 28.44 pts, 12 trb, 4.67 ast, 2.67 stl, 2.44 blk, 2.56 tov, 55.4 ts%
Shaquille O'Neal 26 pts, 12.67 trb, 1.78 ast, 0,67 stl, 2 blk, 3.89 tov, 54 ts%

O'Neal didn't dominate prime Robinson.

[34Dayz]

True but those numbers are incorrect + I dont see why its fair to assume that young Shaq is equal to Prime Shaq, it seems Shaq is the only C in the history of the game who's already in his Prime by his 2nd or 3rd season? How is it fair to assume that 00 Shaq wouldnt or couldnt Dominate 95 Hakeem or Early 90's DRob, I am intelligent enough to admit that its a possibility that he doesnt, but I think its fair to say it could go either way.

[jaypo]

Actually, you're wrong. I don't need to "heap praise" on Shaq. His career speaks for itself, and his career has earned him #7 on the all time list. I know that kills you, but it is what it is. The sky's blue. Water's wet. And Shaq is the 7th greatest player in NBA history. I know it's hard for you to accept. But I don't care about that!

34days is right. You are only wanting to cherry pick years and stats again to take credit away from him. Shaq hit his prime in about 98. You point to DRob's injuries? Well, Shaq had injuries up to that point too. Let's not use that crutch! Sure, DRob was older. Your argument goes back to the Ali vs. Tyson crap.

Anyhow, I can't help it that you hate Shaq. Nor do I really care. If that hatred makes you all upset and your panties wadded, that actually makes me happier!! So dump on him all you like. You won't change history with your whining and hate! So keep it up. By you doing so means I (and Shaq) have already won the battle!!

[34Dayz]

lol GOAT lists are mostly just opinion pieces there is no "set list".

I'd personally only pick Jordan over Shaq to start a franchise, and in todays league I'd probably pick Shaq just because he would own the Center position for 13+ years with the 2nd best Center being no where near as good as him.

People forget that things like winning titles mvps etc.. are often the product of what year you play in and what your supporting cast is etc etc.. Kareem has a better Resume then Shaq for sure but who do I think would be better H2H? Shaq.

[ahonui06]

lol GOAT lists are mostly just opinion pieces there is no "set list".

I'd personally only pick Jordan over Shaq to start a franchise, and in todays league I'd probably pick Shaq just because he would own the Center position for 13+ years with the 2nd best Center being no where near as good as him.

People forget that things like winning titles mvps etc.. are often the product of what year you play in and what your supporting cast is etc etc.. Kareem has a better Resume then Shaq for sure but who do I think would be better H2H? Shaq.

Winning titles and MVPs are a product of a supporting casts and the attraction of the destination, but great players transcend these things. Tim Duncan won 4 titles in San Antonio which is a small market team. Kareem won in Milwaukee which is a small market team.

I would definitely take Kareem over Shaq to start a franchise because of his insane longevity.

[34Dayz]

Fair enough but I'd prefer Shaq who will be better for 13-15 years over Kareems longetivity.

And no great players dont "transcend" needing a good team and luck to win they just give their teams a better chance to win due to increased impact on the offensive + defensive end.. what a silly thing to think. Tim Duncan was great and so were his supporting casts most of the time + he played at the right time to win rings.. if he had played in say the 90's I doubt he wins any rings at all or maybe 1-2 at most.

Just because SA in a "small market" (is it really?) didnt stop them from getting a HOF Coach and some great team mates for Duncan.

People act like he had no help in 03, but he did have DRob and an emerging TParker + Rookie ginobli who was a spark of his own, that team was probably alittle better then what Shaq had in 00.

Hakeems 94 cast was very weak but I am not familiar with his competition that year so its hard to say how amazing an accomplishment that was.

[ahonui06]

Fair enough but I'd prefer Shaq who will be better for 13-15 years over Kareems longetivity.

And no great players dont "transcend" needing a good team and luck to win they just give their teams a better chance to win due to increased impact on the offensive + defensive end.. what a silly thing to think. Tim Duncan was great and so were his supporting casts most of the time + he played at the right time to win rings.. if he had played in say the 90's I doubt he wins any rings at all or maybe 1-2 at most.

Just because SA in a "small market" (is it really?) didnt stop them from getting a HOF Coach and some great team mates for Duncan.

People act like he had no help in 03, but he did have DRob and an emerging TParker + Rookie ginobli who was a spark of his own, that team was probably alittle better then what Shaq had in 00.

Hakeems 94 cast was very weak but I am not familiar with his competition that year so its hard to say how amazing an accomplishment that was.

2003 Spurs were a pretty weak supporting cast. David Robinson was 37 years old and a shell of his former self. He only played 26.2MPG in the regular season and averaged 8.5/7.9. In the playoffs he played even less and contributed less as well. Tony Parker got benched for Speedy Claxton and Ginobili was inconsistent.

However, in 2005 and 2007 Duncan did have good supporting casts with Ginobili & Parker coming into their own.

[pancakes3]

True but those numbers are incorrect + I dont see why its fair to assume that young Shaq is equal to Prime Shaq, it seems Shaq is the only C in the history of the game who's already in his Prime by his 2nd or 3rd season? How is it fair to assume that 00 Shaq wouldnt or couldnt Dominate 95 Hakeem or Early 90's DRob, I am intelligent enough to admit that its a possibility that he doesnt, but I think its fair to say it could go either way.

wilt won the MVP his rookie year, hit his career high mark in rebounds by his 2nd season, and his 50ppg season in his 3rd. KAJ was MVP/finals MVP his 2nd year. Hakeem was all-d his rookie year, 2nd team all-nba his sophomore year, and 1st team all-nba/d his 3rd year. i guess when people think "most dominant ever" they usually think of players that hit the ground running.

that, and '00s shaq would have a tough time keeping up with gazelles like DRob and Hakeem defensively.

[FuShengTHEGreat]

Actually, you're wrong. I don't need to "heap praise" on Shaq. His career speaks for itself, and his career has earned him #7 on the all time list. I know that kills you, but it is what it is. The sky's blue. Water's wet. And Shaq is the 7th greatest player in NBA history. I know it's hard for you to accept. But I don't care about that!

Anyhow, I can't help it that you hate Shaq. Nor do I really care. If that hatred makes you all upset and your panties wadded, that actually makes me happier!! So dump on him all you like. You won't change history with your whining and hate! So keep it up. By you doing so means I (and Shaq) have already won the battle!!

LOL.....Yeah rather than admit your myths DRob being embarrased by Shaq have been countered you proceed to go on some unrelated rant about where Shaq sits on all-time lists. Which I find comical because:

a) No one in this thread has attacked Shaq's standing amongst all-time greats,heck no one has even mentioned where he is on a all-time list aside from you. I guess the only one hurting is you to bring up something like this out of nowhere.

b) Where is this "official" list that hails Shaq 7th all time? Who died and laballed Shaq THE 7th greatest player ever? Heck I am reading a basketball publication where Shaq doesn't even crack top10 all time,lol. Is he full of "hate" too? Outside of the great almighty creator saying so, it's merely an subjective opinion and not factual.

[Rapcity_11]

Shaq IS absolutely top 10 all-time, anywhere from 5-9 is arguable. Anything past 9 is most likely "hate" or bias.