2013-14 Official POY Voting (LeBron wins for the 5th time)

[Doctor MJ]

Very cool Sideshow, thanks!

Adding one last vote from our fallen comrade - and to be clear, this isn't something I'll do repeatedly, but I can do it once:

mysticbb votes:

1. LeBron James
2. Chris Paul
3. Kevin Durant
4. Kevin Love
5. Stephen Curry

I'm now going to convert the raw score into POY shares.

[Doctor MJ]

Code: Select all

Player              1   2   3   4   5   Raw   Shares
1. LeBron James    26   4   0   0   0   288   0.960
2. Kevin Durant     4  25   1   0   0   220   0.733
3. Chris Paul       0   1  10  10   6    93   0.310
4. Blake Griffin    0   0   8   6   3    61   0.203
5. Stephen Curry    0   0   3   9   8    50   0.167
6. Kevin Love       0   0   4   4   3    35   0.117
7. Paul George      0   0   1   1   1     9   0.030
8. L.Aldridge       0   0   1   0   0     5   0.017
(tie) Tim Duncan    0   0   1   0   0     5   0.017
10. Dwight Howard   0   0   0   0   3     3   0.010
11. Dirk Nowitzki   0   0   0   0   2     2   0.007
12. Andre Iguodala  0   0   0   0   1     1   0.003
(tie) James Harden  0   0   0   0   1     1   0.003
(tie) R. Westbrook  0   0   0   0   1     1   0.003

[Doctor MJ]

Contrats to LeBron James on his 5th Player of the Year award!

[RSCD3_]

Is that a record for most players receiving votes there's about 15 in total


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Doctor MJ]

Is that a record for most players receiving votes there's about 15 in total


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

It is. 14 this year, with 13 being the old record.

The distribution of votes in "live" years is definitely more in line with the high variance you see in actual MVP voting (though not quite as extreme).

[mopper8]

where is Lebron now on the all-time vote share list? he must be getting up there.

[ThaRegul8r]

where is Lebron now on the all-time vote share list? he must be getting up there.

I was actually curious about that myself.

[mopper8]

where is Lebron now on the all-time vote share list? he must be getting up there.

I was actually curious about that myself.

He's up to #3 in career MVP shares, and probably only 1 year away from passing KAJ and moving into #2 all-time, which is pretty nuts by 30. 3 more strong years and he's just about guaranteed to pass Jordan for #1. And I expect him to fare better in these rankings than in those...

[Doctor MJ]

where is Lebron now on the all-time vote share list? he must be getting up there.

I've PM'ed semi-sentient to update his site, and I haven't updated my spreadsheets in full yet, but let's see what I can do quickly:

LeBron will go from 9th to 6th. With a unanimous win next year, he'd go up to 5th.
Durant will go from 28th to 22nd. With a unanimous win next year, he'd go up to 19th.
Paul despite finishing 3rd will drop 1 spot to 27th due to Durant passing him up.
Curry will go from 65th to 57th. Griffin will enter the list at 63rd, and Love will be 68th.

Top ranked active players:

6. LeBron James
7. Tim Duncan
14. Kobe Bryant
17. Kevin Garnett
19. Dwyane Wade
21. Dirk Nowitzki
22. Kevin Durant
27. Chris Paul
31. Steve Nash
34. Dwight Howard
57. Stephen Curry
63. Blake Griffin
68. Kevin Love
73. Derrick Rose
74. James Harden
81. Paul George
82. Amare Stoudemire
83. Russell Westbrook
84. Tony Parker
85. Vince Carter
87. Manu Ginobili

[mopper8]

where is Lebron now on the all-time vote share list? he must be getting up there.

I've PM'ed semi-sentient to update his site, and I haven't updated my spreadsheets in full yet, but let's see what I can do quickly:

LeBron will go from 9th to 6th. With a unanimous win next year, he'd go up to 5th.
Durant will go from 28th to 22nd. With a unanimous win next year, he'd go up to 19th.
Paul despite finishing 3rd will drop 1 spot to 27th due to Durant passing him up.
Curry will go from 65th to 57th. Griffin will enter the list at 63rd, and Love will be 68th.

Top ranked active players:

6. LeBron James
7. Tim Duncan
14. Kobe Bryant
17. Kevin Garnett
19. Dwyane Wade
21. Dirk Nowitzki
22. Kevin Durant
27. Chris Paul
31. Steve Nash
34. Dwight Howard
57. Stephen Curry
63. Blake Griffin
68. Kevin Love
73. Derrick Rose
74. James Harden
81. Paul George
82. Amare Stoudemire
83. Russell Westbrook
84. Tony Parker
85. Vince Carter
87. Manu Ginobili

It's pretty crazy how close some of these guys are to precisely where I'd peg them on my top-100 list. KD seems way high, kinda bananas actually, though it's not surprising when I think about it.

[Doctor MJ]

where is Lebron now on the all-time vote share list? he must be getting up there.

I've PM'ed semi-sentient to update his site, and I haven't updated my spreadsheets in full yet, but let's see what I can do quickly:

LeBron will go from 9th to 6th. With a unanimous win next year, he'd go up to 5th.
Durant will go from 28th to 22nd. With a unanimous win next year, he'd go up to 19th.
Paul despite finishing 3rd will drop 1 spot to 27th due to Durant passing him up.
Curry will go from 65th to 57th. Griffin will enter the list at 63rd, and Love will be 68th.

Top ranked active players:

6. LeBron James
7. Tim Duncan
14. Kobe Bryant
17. Kevin Garnett
19. Dwyane Wade
21. Dirk Nowitzki
22. Kevin Durant
27. Chris Paul
31. Steve Nash
34. Dwight Howard
57. Stephen Curry
63. Blake Griffin
68. Kevin Love
73. Derrick Rose
74. James Harden
81. Paul George
82. Amare Stoudemire
83. Russell Westbrook
84. Tony Parker
85. Vince Carter
87. Manu Ginobili

It's pretty crazy how close some of these guys are to precisely where I'd peg them on my top-100 list. KD seems way high, kinda bananas actually, though it's not surprising when I think about it.

I see several places where it just looks like a GOAT list with particularly low emphasis placed on longevity...which is kind of what it is.

LeBron passed Duncan here, but I still have him below Duncan and Garnett.
Paul's ahead of Nash here but I rank Nash ahead.
Durant's ahead of both Paul and Nash, but I rank him below both.

Seeing these youngins rank ahead of Parker & Ginobili is no surprise given how they're Spur career has played out (as HOFers but not really MVP candidates), but isn't it amazing to see how quickly guys pass up Vince Carter?

[JordansBulls]

where is Lebron now on the all-time vote share list? he must be getting up there.

I've PM'ed semi-sentient to update his site, and I haven't updated my spreadsheets in full yet, but let's see what I can do quickly:

LeBron will go from 9th to 6th. With a unanimous win next year, he'd go up to 5th.
Durant will go from 28th to 22nd. With a unanimous win next year, he'd go up to 19th.
Paul despite finishing 3rd will drop 1 spot to 27th due to Durant passing him up.
Curry will go from 65th to 57th. Griffin will enter the list at 63rd, and Love will be 68th.

Top ranked active players:

6. LeBron James
7. Tim Duncan
14. Kobe Bryant
17. Kevin Garnett
19. Dwyane Wade
21. Dirk Nowitzki
22. Kevin Durant
27. Chris Paul
31. Steve Nash
34. Dwight Howard
57. Stephen Curry
63. Blake Griffin
68. Kevin Love
73. Derrick Rose
74. James Harden
81. Paul George
82. Amare Stoudemire
83. Russell Westbrook
84. Tony Parker
85. Vince Carter
87. Manu Ginobili

It's pretty crazy how close some of these guys are to precisely where I'd peg them on my top-100 list. KD seems way high, kinda bananas actually, though it's not surprising when I think about it.

I think a lot had to do with Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, KG, Dirk all battling one another in there primes

[Colbinii]

I think a lot had to do with Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, KG, Dirk all battling one another in there primes

Ehh, the biggest thing in my opinion is that when you vote in the present, there are a lot more knee-jerk reactions to playoffs (Aldridge) and fan favorites. When you re-visit history, it seems like there are fewer players that stick out compared to living in the present.

[O_6]

LeBron fell short of the title this year but he continues to be the best player in the league and he is marching towards 1st place on the RealGM POY list. Here is a list of the Top 9 players according to the RealGM POY project (using semi-sentient's site + Doc's figures above), the only 9 players above 5.50 shares...

First 11 full years in league (not including '86, '95 for MJ, '81 for Magic, '89 for Bird):
Jordan ----- 9.58 RGM POY shares --- 0.00 rest of career
Russell ----- 9.34 RGM POY shares --- 1.62 rest of career
Kareem ---- 8.98 RGM POY shares --- 1.24 rest of career

Magic ------- 7.11 RGM POY shares --- 0.00 rest of career
LeBron ----- 6.65 RGM POY shares
Wilt --------- 6.38 RGM POY shares --- 1.44 rest of career
Bird --------- 6.15 RGM POY shares --- 0.00 rest of career
Duncan ----- 6.13 RGM POY shares --- 0.12 rest of career
Shaq -------- 5.22 RGM POY shares --- 0.69 rest of career

LeBron has had a fantastic 11 year start to his career. He has the 5th highest RGM POY score after 11 years. I didn't include a couple of seasons from MJ/Bird/Magic where none of them even came close to approaching even half the team games played on the year. These seasons basically eliminated those guys from contending for a POY award. So this is basically a player's first 11 "FULL seasons" not first 11 "years".

The amazing thing about LeBron is that his HS-to-NBA jump put him at a disadvantage here compared to some of these other players who were instant impact performers as rookies. But it also puts him in a very good position when it comes to racking up future POY shares. Kobe is probably his most similar comparison as a HS-to-NBA wing. Kobe's '08-'10 run came during years 12-13-14 for him. And then Kobe also put up 3 more very good seasons from '11-'13.

LeBron's peak has been legendary. But the key to LeBron's place in NBA and sports history will ultimately be his longevity. If LeBron can stay dominant in years 12-17 the way Kobe has, he will carve out an incredible argument for GOAT. But that still remains to be seen and the majority of the truly great players in this league have not had dominant year 12-17 stretches.


Durant has had a great 7 year start to his career. He has turned himself into one of the greatest scorers ever and is just a historic offensive force. His 7 year start compared with LeBron's...

Through first 7 years in league:
LeBron ----- 3.07 MVP shares ---- 3.08 RGM POY shares
Durant ----- 3.01 MVP shares ---- 2.24 RGM POY shares

Durant is actually in striking distance of LeBron when it comes to the NBA's MVP shares, but there is more of a distance in RealGM's POY shares. I feel like this is a positive for RealGM POY shares because there was clearly atleast a small gap between LeBron's first 7 years and Durant's first 7 years. Still, Durant has had a fabulous start to his career and is on his way to a historic career. I really hope he can get stronger and maybe add a better post-game to complete his offensive repertoire. Amazing player.

A couple of other thoughts...

- Chris Paul is special, 3rd straight 3rd place finish. He's one of the best non-Magic PGs ever
- Carmelo has had ZERO votes the past 2 years, and ONE 5th place vote in '09 over his career
- Harden's 2014 was almost identical to his 2013, maybe slightly better and yet...
- James Harden finished 6th last year being on 7/23 ballots, this year he was on 1/30 ballots
- 2014 was clearly a deeper year than 2013 for this project imo
- Westbrook was on 1/30 ballots this year, on 1/23 ballots in 2013, on 3/18 ballots in 2012
- Westbrook is my pick to make a Blake Griffin-like leap into Top 5 contention in 2015

[cpower]

where is Lebron now on the all-time vote share list? he must be getting up there.

I've PM'ed semi-sentient to update his site, and I haven't updated my spreadsheets in full yet, but let's see what I can do quickly:

LeBron will go from 9th to 6th. With a unanimous win next year, he'd go up to 5th.
Durant will go from 28th to 22nd. With a unanimous win next year, he'd go up to 19th.
Paul despite finishing 3rd will drop 1 spot to 27th due to Durant passing him up.
Curry will go from 65th to 57th. Griffin will enter the list at 63rd, and Love will be 68th.

Top ranked active players:

6. LeBron James
7. Tim Duncan
14. Kobe Bryant
17. Kevin Garnett
19. Dwyane Wade
21. Dirk Nowitzki
22. Kevin Durant
27. Chris Paul
31. Steve Nash
34. Dwight Howard
57. Stephen Curry
63. Blake Griffin
68. Kevin Love
73. Derrick Rose
74. James Harden
81. Paul George
82. Amare Stoudemire
83. Russell Westbrook
84. Tony Parker
85. Vince Carter
87. Manu Ginobili

I am sorry but this list doesnt make any sense. It's like a random generated list of players who played in all star games. where is pierce and allen, btw?

[Doctor MJ]

I am sorry but this list doesnt make any sense. It's like a random generated list of players who played in all star games. where is pierce and allen, btw?

I see you haven't really thought this through.

This is a project designed to be analogous to the MVP but factoring in the entire season. The MVP has voters pick their top 5 guys, so that's what we did.

As a result Pierce and Allen aren't high on either our POY shares or the NBA's MVP shares. They are great players, but they aren't guys who were typically considered Top 5 by anyone, and so none of this should come as a shock.

If you're not so much shocked as you just see that as clearly a reason not to use these lists for a GOAT list, well I'd say we all agree with you. That doesn't mean the lists don't yield some worthwhile information though.