For the next top 100 project, all people who live in reality, please convene here

[clyde21]

"Guys be realistic"

"Any list without Kobe in the top-10 is not realistic"

Okay bro.

[andrewww]

When u look at the whole body of work...or have consistant criteria for there rankings...its a further reach to exclude Kobe out of the top 10 rather than in it...certainly at this point imo. But i do want to hear what case people have to say otherwise...

I can see a case for Magic being out of top 5 (i personally dont)...especially if we include Russell and older players in the argument

With KG....i can see a case being just in the top 12 (tho i personally dont).

I dont think ppl with left field opinions should be excluded....reason and common sense most often than not prevails in a proper open forum where properly managed discussion takes place

The typical arguments are that he got lucky playing with Shaq and no other ATG has had more help, even though he was option 1a or 1 for 4 out of 5 title winning teams, and made 3+ appearances with two separate casts in the toughest western conference competition ever (no other ATG has more playoff wins against 50 win teams than Kobe).

Like you said, if people are being consistent (and I'm talking about peak which Kobe's is never captured properly imo, offensive peak, defensive peak, how he played in championship runs), there's no way he should be any lower than 11th (Jordan Kareem Russell Wilt Magic Bird Lebron Shaq Duncan Kobe) and there's much more to support a top 10 resume than there is to argue against that.

Like if Lebron's TEAM (with two other all stars) can beat the Warriors, people are already ready to annoint him as the GOAT but if CLE loses its because they were just outmatched? Its the inconsistent narratives that people use to prop up their guy but then theyre using the same argument AGAINST a similar caliber player.... its infuriating.

[RCM88x]

When u look at the whole body of work...or have consistant criteria for there rankings...its a further reach to exclude Kobe out of the top 10 rather than in it...certainly at this point imo. But i do want to hear what case people have to say otherwise...

I can see a case for Magic being out of top 5 (i personally dont)...especially if we include Russell and older players in the argument

With KG....i can see a case being just in the top 12 (tho i personally dont).

I dont think ppl with left field opinions should be excluded....reason and common sense most often than not prevails in a proper open forum where properly managed discussion takes place

The typical arguments are that he got lucky playing with Shaq and no other ATG has had more help, even though he was option 1a or 1 for 4 out of 5 title winning teams, and made 3+ appearances with two separate casts in the toughest western conference competition ever (no other ATG has more playoff wins against 50 win teams than Kobe).

Like you said, if people are being consistent (and I'm talking about peak which Kobe's is never captured properly imo, offensive peak, defensive peak, how he played in championship runs), there's no way he should be any lower than 11th (Jordan Kareem Russell Wilt Magic Bird Lebron Shaq Duncan Kobe) and there's much more to support a top 10 resume than there is to argue against that.

Like if Lebron's TEAM (with two other all stars) can beat the Warriors, people are already ready to annoint him as the GOAT but if CLE loses its because they were just outmatched? Its the inconsistent narratives that people use to prop up their guy but then theyre using the same argument AGAINST a similar caliber player.... its infuriating.

Can people please stop using All-Stars as a mark of quality players? Like that having a star next to your name puts you on the same field as all other AS players?

Also, could people please stop evaluating teams past their 2-3 best players? That would be great.

[Reservoirdawgs]

This may very well be the single worst thread in the history of the Player Comparison Board.


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[Bruh Man]

This may very well be the single worst thread in the history of the Player Comparison Board.


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You must be new, even then I just saw a Draymond vs Shaq thread on here yesterday

[The_Hater]

We need to make sure the results reflect reality. Garnett simply cannot be voted into the top 12, Kobe has to be in the top 10, we cannot have Magic outside the top 5, players like Baylor, Oscar, and West need to be given respect.

I want to make this a strategy thread for us guys who know these things to make sure the project turns out the way it needs to and we can vote accordingly.

Why is Kobe so clearly in the top 10 and any other ranking doesn't reflect reality? I've got him 12th on my list.

[therealbig3]

It's a terrible thread because you're openly trying to sabotage the top 100 project with the rankings YOU want to see, when the rankings aren't even the point, it's the conversation.

And if your argument against the rankings you don't like is "you guys don't live in reality", you can GTFO, because that's not a counter argument, that's whining.

[Reservoirdawgs]

I find it more interesting to read the research of material that people come up with than the ranking itself. I have a deeper appreciation of Hakeem and D-Rob because of the last top 100 project, and I look forward to reading more of those and maybe do some digging on my own to join the discussion.

^^^^^

I learned so much three years ago thanks to the amazing work brought about by so many posters. I gained much more appreciation for Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Kevin Garnett, and Julius Erving thanks to reading the discussion and all of the stats/context that people provided. Many of my preconceived notions were challenged which was great! I'm glad to get out of my comfort zone and be intellectually challenged by people who understand advanced stats and basketball much more than me. It leads me to broadening my love and understanding of basketball so I can do a better job enjoying and partaking in this sport. Hell, I still re-read the Top 15 when I'm bored at work because the discussions were so amazing.

Three years ago, Hoopsworld also did a Top 100 list because some of the posters were upset at Kobe not being in the Top 10 over here so the person who organized it rigged the voting to put Kobe over Lebron. Given his agenda, I would recommend that the OP simply start a Top 100 and try to organize factions over at Hoopsworld so he can get the desired outcome he wants instead of sabotaging the Top 100 over here.

[ardee]

This may very well be the single worst thread in the history of the Player Comparison Board.


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All I'm trying to do is create an alliance against insanity.

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[SactoKingsFan]

This may very well be the single worst thread in the history of the Player Comparison Board.


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You must be new, even then I just saw a Draymond vs Shaq thread on here yesterday

That Draymond v Shaq thread was most likely created to mock those that consider Draymond a superstar.

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[therealbig3]

This may very well be the single worst thread in the history of the Player Comparison Board.


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All I'm trying to do is create an alliance against insanity.

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And I find it highly insulting that you're gonna label all of us that have different opinions than you "insane".

I personally find it insane to be so emotionally invested in a player ranking on an Internet forum, but whatever floats your boat, I guess.

[Reservoirdawgs]

All I'm trying to do is create an alliance against insanity.

No, you're throwing a temper tantrum because the rankings didn't go the way you wanted so now you are openly campaigning and trying to sabotage the project before it has even began. If you think something is insane then put together a reasonable and competent argument and people will listen to it and debate it. Stuff like this completely goes against the spirit of the project. I'm honestly amazed that you thought this was a good enough idea to actually make a thread on it.

[The_Hater]

This may very well be the single worst thread in the history of the Player Comparison Board.


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All I'm trying to do is create an alliance against insanity.

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Based on nothing more than your opening post here, your own personal bias appears to have blurred the line between people having differing opinions and insanity.

[PaulieWal]

Pretty pathetic to see you doubling down ardee. If pen or doc or another mod wants to open this thread then by all means but for now I'm locking down this thread which is only meant to insult other posters.

[Doctor MJ]

Pretty pathetic to see you doubling down ardee. If pen or doc or another mod wants to open this thread then by all means but for now I'm locking down this thread which is only meant to insult other posters.

I agree with you call here, and with the responses of others.

The point of these projects is to learn and build community. Yes we get passionate about what we argue about, and yes we do try to influence other people, but that's just supposed to be a bit of sugar to facilitate the creation of something that's actually meaningful.

I'm not looking to damn people who lose perspective on this, because I think we all do at times, but if people are really only participating to manipulate the rankings they are only making the meaningful stuff worse.

I'll add this:

We've had variations of Top 100 that aren't done a vote at a time but instead just adding up people's existing ranked lists - in fact it tends to make a great precursor to the official Top 100 project. These lists may actually be BETTER than what we come up with vote by vote, but no one really cares about them. Why? Because it's the weight of these massive iterative projects that makes them care, and these projects are only able to be sustained with the right balance of community participation.

If I get the impression that everyone just cares about winning by any means possible, that might galvanize me to fight them..for a while. But not 100 spots. No one really cares who is 83rd, but if a project is going well, people will participate simply because the process pushes them to understand every player better.

So yeah folks, I'm not going to be running the project. Things will not be my call. But I would request that everyone who plans to participate make sure they understand WHY it is we do projects, and do projects well, here. You're going to get into intellectual battles with people, you're going to feel emotion and want to win. That's fine. Go a little too far? Apologize and move on. But there's more going on on this board than that, whether you know it or not, and that's why it has the depth of thought that it does.