RealGM 2017 Top 100 List: #25

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Re: RealGM 2017 Top 100 List: #25 

Post#41 » by trex_8063 » Tue Aug 8, 2017 6:50 pm

Pablo Novi wrote:I've got a question (essentially the same one as a few threads ago).
For people (like myself) who have already voted in a thread BUT whose vote has clearly no chance of winning; is it "ethical" under our system to late-change such a vote to one of the seriously contending candidates?

IF SO, I'd change my Cousy (Vote) and Baylor (Alt) TO: Mikan (vote), no (Alt).

The more general question: SHOULD our system here allow (even encourage) people to late-switch their votes based on viable-candidate issues?


As I'd stated previously, I don't have a problem with you voting for someone other than your genuine top preferred pick (if your top preferred pick doesn't have any other support or traction).

However, I'm going to ask that you not change your vote in this manner. "This manner" I'm referring to is: at the 11th hour (with potentially only minutes remaining on this thread), and leap-frogging Mikan (who is one of the top vote recipients in what appears a VERY close race) over both your primary and alternate picks........It just doesn't look good, and is certainly a manner in which people could manipulate the results.
I'm not saying manipulation is your intent, but I need to set precedent. If I allow you to change your vote literally at the last minute like this (and in such a close race), I'm on shaking ground for denying anyone else that right later on (which could open the flood-gates to a whole bunch of strategic manipulation).

I realize you might ask "how can I know if my candidate has traction UNLESS I wait till near the end?" But one can largely tell who has traction and who doesn't based on previous threads.

I know this is still a bit of a grey area, but hopefully that helps clear it up. I'd prefer we leave your votes as is for now, but don't have a problem with you being a somewhat more "strategic" in who you vote for in the next thread. You can always campaign hard for your preferred pick while not casting a vote for him, too.
"The fact that a proposition is absurd has never hindered those who wish to believe it." -Edward Rutherfurd
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
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Re: RealGM 2017 Top 100 List: #25 

Post#42 » by Pablo Novi » Tue Aug 8, 2017 6:58 pm

trex_8063 wrote:
Pablo Novi wrote:I've got a question (essentially the same one as a few threads ago).
For people (like myself) who have already voted in a thread BUT whose vote has clearly no chance of winning; is it "ethical" under our system to late-change such a vote to one of the seriously contending candidates?

IF SO, I'd change my Cousy (Vote) and Baylor (Alt) TO: Mikan (vote), no (Alt).

The more general question: SHOULD our system here allow (even encourage) people to late-switch their votes based on viable-candidate issues?


As I'd stated previously, I don't have a problem with you voting for someone other than your genuine top preferred pick (if your top preferred pick doesn't have any other support or traction).

However, I'm going to ask that you not change your vote in this manner. "This manner" I'm referring to is: at the 11th hour (with potentially only minutes remaining on this thread), and leap-frogging Mikan (who is one of the top vote recipients in what appears a VERY close race) over both your primary and alternate picks........It just doesn't look good, and is certainly a manner in which people could manipulate the results.
I'm not saying manipulation is your intent, but I need to set precedent. If I allow you to change your vote literally at the last minute like this (and in such a close race), I'm on shaking ground for denying anyone else that right later on (which could open the flood-gates to a whole bunch of strategic manipulation).

I realize you might ask "how can I know if my candidate has traction UNLESS I wait till near the end?" But one can largely tell who has traction and who doesn't based on previous threads.

I know this is still a bit of a grey area, but hopefully that helps clear it up. I'd prefer we leave your votes as is for now, but don't have a problem with you being a somewhat more "strategic" in who you vote for in the next thread. You can always campaign hard for your preferred pick while not casting a vote for him, too.

EXCELLENT - exactly the kind of guidance I was asking for.

In particular, this: "You can always campaign hard for your preferred pick while not casting a vote for him, too." - is what I needed to understand.

Thanx.

P.S. CHEAP THRILL OF THE DAY: I've busted into the ranks of "Senior" with my 500th post just moments ago. Whoppee!
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Re: RealGM 2017 Top 100 List: #25 

Post#43 » by andrewww » Tue Aug 8, 2017 7:09 pm

penbeast0 wrote:
Baylor/Pettit was close in the 60s with a small but reasonably clear edge to Pettit in terms of stats (and Baylor in terms of style). Pettit in the 50s was Curry level of impact in terms of warping defenses and being the best offensive players.


Not sure I agree with that assessment. If so, that means he would have been considered the premier offensive talent in the 60s meaning he was superior to guys like Wilt/West/Oscar.
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Re: RealGM 2017 Top 100 List: #25 

Post#44 » by trex_8063 » Tue Aug 8, 2017 7:15 pm

A bit of a sluggish turnout in this thread, but I'm going to do the count now because I otherwise won't be able to get back to it for several hours.

Thru :( post #43 (25 votes, requiring 13 for true majority):

George Mikan - 7 (wojoaderge, penbeast0, JordansBulls, JoeMalburg, Joao Saraiva, janmagn, Bad Gatorade)
Steve Nash - 5 (ardee, dhsilv2, Doctor MJ, Dr Positivity, micahclay)
Patrick Ewing - 4 (trex_8063, drza, Hornet Mania, Clyde Frazier)
Kevin Durant - 2 (andrewww, pandrade83)
Stephen Curry - 2 (oldschooled, twolves97)
Scottie Pippen - 2 (SactoKingsFan, RCM88x)
Bob Cousy - 2 (Pablo Novi, euroleague)
John Havlicek - 1 (scabbarista)


No majority, so Hondo is eliminated. Vote transfers to Durant.

Mikan - 7
Nash - 5
Ewing - 4
Durant - 3
Curry/Pippen/Cousy - 2 each


Still no majority, so Curry, Pippen, and Cousy are all eliminated. Two votes become ghost votes (were for Hondo and Baylor); otherwise have two votes transferring to Nash, two votes to Mikan.

Mikan - 9
Nash - 7
Ewing - 4
Durant - 3


Still no majority, so Durant is eliminated. This transfers one vote to Ewing, one to Nash.

Mikan - 9
Nash - 8
Ewing - 5


Ewing is next on chopping block. Two more become ghost votes (had been for Durant and Baylor). Two votes transfer to Mikan.....

Mikan - 11
Nash - 8



So Mikan finally gets in! (ready a new statement, penbeast0! :D).
I'll have the next thread up in moments.

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"The fact that a proposition is absurd has never hindered those who wish to believe it." -Edward Rutherfurd
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
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Re: RealGM 2017 Top 100 List: #25 

Post#45 » by penbeast0 » Tue Aug 8, 2017 9:32 pm

Pablo Novi wrote:I don't get your comment about Baylor/Pettit. During the 60s, Petti was ALL-NBA 1st-Team the first 5 years, then, 2nd-Team in 1965; Baylor was ALL-NBA 1st-Team for NINE of those ten seasons.


Their careers overlapped in the sixties from 60-64 and the first half of 65 before Pettit was injured and retired. In that time, Pettit was equal or slightly superior in stats, had a better defensive rep, and missed less games though it was not Baylor's fault that his draft number came up which caused him to miss a number of games. Baylor continued to be 1st team in the second half of the 60s despite his numbers sliding rather than going up (Pettit's went up from the 50s to the 60s) but I was talking about the overlap in the 60s which is a significant part of Baylor's prime.
“Most people use statistics like a drunk man uses a lamppost; more for support than illumination,” Andrew Lang.
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Re: RealGM 2017 Top 100 List: #25 

Post#46 » by penbeast0 » Tue Aug 8, 2017 9:33 pm

andrewww wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:
Baylor/Pettit was close in the 60s with a small but reasonably clear edge to Pettit in terms of stats (and Baylor in terms of style). Pettit in the 50s was Curry level of impact in terms of warping defenses and being the best offensive players.


Not sure I agree with that assessment. If so, that means he would have been considered the premier offensive talent in the 60s meaning he was superior to guys like Wilt/West/Oscar.


50s, not 60s. And yes, Bob Pettit was considered the premier offensive talent of the 50s.
“Most people use statistics like a drunk man uses a lamppost; more for support than illumination,” Andrew Lang.
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Re: RealGM 2017 Top 100 List: #25 

Post#47 » by andrewww » Tue Aug 8, 2017 10:25 pm

penbeast0 wrote:
50s, not 60s. And yes, Bob Pettit was considered the premier offensive talent of the 50s.


Sure, that's an absolutely reasonable stance.

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