Best defenders among SHOOTING GUARDS CANDIDATES LIST- The Ten Best Defenders in each Position Project

[Gibson22]

Hi guys, we are doing this project, which is basically a ranking of the best 10 players in each position. We already did the first 9 of the ten best defensive point guards, and now we are going to move on to the next spot, the SG. Before doing it we make a candidates list. I would be happy if you guys decided to partecipate. If I quoted you more than once, please tell me.
Btw, if you would express your vote to decide the position of these players here viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1755227 it would be appreciated

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[zimpy27]

My top 10

Jordan
Moncrief
Cooper
Alvin Robertson
Andre Roberson
Dennis Johnson
Kobe
Dumars
Tony Allen
Wade

[trex_8063]

Marcus Smart?

He's a good inclusion. I can't see myself supporting him in this project based on the skimpy number of years; but for those who are less longevity-oriented than me, he may be a valid pick at some point.

[trex_8063]

Positions to decide: Andre Roberson, Butler, Sefolosha, Paul Pressey.

Guys that I'm not sure if we should put them: Klay (I say yes), Raja Bell, Jo jo White, Manu, Sprewell if he's a SG, Aaron McKie, stacey augmon, Larry hughes, bobby phills, Lionel Hollins.

I think Raja Bell, Klay Thompson, Stacey Augmon, and Aaron McKie are good inclusions. Maybe Manu, Hollins, and Spree, too. I'm a bit more skeptical about Phills and Hughes.

Jo Jo White I'd definitely call more of a PG (but his one-time teammate Don Chaney is a "must have" for the candidate list, imo).

[trex_8063]

So, even if we are not done yet with the point guard top ten list, to be ready to keep it going and start with this list when we are done with the PGs, we should start listing candidates for the Shooting guards list.

Not much to say, just start throwing out candidates, and, most important, we should settle the position for possible candidates who are between SG/SF

I haven't read every post itt (or necessarily remember each and every player suggested in the posts I have read), but I'm gonna throw a few more names out there, just in case they've not been mentioned (though most probably have).....

Avery Bradley
Danny Green--->he's a really good inclusion, imo
Victor Oladipo
John Starks
Doug Christie

[LivingLegend]

Delonte West end of story

[HeartBreakKid]

Marcus Smart?

He's a good inclusion. I can't see myself supporting him in this project based on the skimpy number of years; but for those who are less longevity-oriented than me, he may be a valid pick at some point.

I don't know, he's been all defense caliber for about 4 years now - Avery Bradley and Klay Thompson (kinda absurd...he's a good defender but not one of the best elite defenders of all time) aren't even in his tier as defenders (especially Bradley). Seems like Smart's defense getting slept on around here again.

4 years of elite defense versus say 7 years of okay-good defense? Longevity doesn't seem to be that big of a factor

I guess people here are really, really, big on Klay Thompson - but as I can't ever recall anyone thinking he's ever been an elite defender. Or perhaps the perception is that Smart isn't an elite defender, I guess with his lack of accolades that makes sense as well.

[penbeast0]

Positions to decide: Andre Roberson, Butler, Sefolosha, Paul Pressey.

Guys that I'm not sure if we should put them: Klay (I say yes), Raja Bell, Jo jo White, Manu, Sprewell if he's a SG, Aaron McKie, stacey augmon, Larry hughes, bobby phills, Lionel Hollins.

I think Raja Bell, Klay Thompson, Stacey Augmon, and Aaron McKie are good inclusions. Maybe Manu, Hollins, and Spree, too. I'm a bit more skeptical about Phills and Hughes.

Jo Jo White I'd definitely call more of a PG (but his one-time teammate Don Chaney is a "must have" for the candidate list, imo).

Hughes has no business on this list. He wasn't a consistent defender, but a gambler who made an All-D team basically for volume of steals.

[trex_8063]

Marcus Smart?

He's a good inclusion. I can't see myself supporting him in this project based on the skimpy number of years; but for those who are less longevity-oriented than me, he may be a valid pick at some point.

I don't know, he's been all defense caliber for about 4 years now - Avery Bradley and Klay Thompson (kinda absurd...he's a good defender but not one of the best elite defenders of all time) aren't even in his tier as defenders (especially Bradley). Seems like Smart's defense getting slept on around here again.

4 years of elite defense versus say 7 years of okay-good defense? Longevity doesn't seem to be that big of a factor

If you want to support him, do so. Though fwiw, it's not just 4 vs 7 (or whatever). Smart's also only averaged 28.7 mpg in those four seasons (vs 31-33+ for most other [major] candidates), and also been a bit injury prone (missing 15-28 games in THREE of his four seasons). So his impact per season is limited by those factors.
To put his playing time into perspective against Thompson, for example, Smart's still just shy of 7,500 minutes, whereas Thompson's at nearly 17,700 (about 2.4x as many minutes). And fwiw, I'm skeptical I'll be supporting Klay Thompson within this project either.

[Gibson22]

So apparently the poll is saying that dan majerle, andre roberson, butler and sefolosha are all sgs.

[Dr Positivity]

Locks in my opinion (they are a lot)

Starks
Ginobili
Tr Dunn
Dumars
Fast Eddie
Fat Lever
Jimmy Butler if he's SG
Sidney Moncrief
Michael Jordan
Tony allen
Avery Bradley
THABO SEFOLOSHA
Michael cooper
Alvin Robertson
Wade
Doug Christie
Danny Green
Klay
Jerry Sloan
Kobe
Tom Gola
Don Chaney
Nick Anderson
Mitch Richmond
Raja Bell
Bobby Phills
Vernon Maxwell
Bill Sharman

Then
maybes:
Sprewell , Aaron McKie, stacey augmon, Larry hughes, Lionel Hollins + the players that we have to decide their position (jimmy b thabo andre roberson majerle)

Stephen Jackson not on candidates list? I mean I'm probably not voting for him top 10 but if the long list is that long then...

Do you have Eddie Jones as SF?

[Gibson22]

It seems like the poll results is going to give us butler, andre rob, dan and thabo as sg, I think that I should open another poll for stephen jackson, Should I?

Anyway, tell me if I missed somebody:

Starks
Ginobili
Tr Dunn
Dumars
Eddie Johnson
Eddie Jones
Fat Lever
Jimmy Butler
Sidney Moncrief
Michael Jordan
Tony allen
Avery Bradley
THABO SEFOLOSHA
Michael cooper
Alvin Robertson
Wade
Doug Christie
Danny Green
Klay
Jerry Sloan
Kobe
Tom Gola
Don Chaney
Nick Anderson
Mitch Richmond
Raja Bell
Bobby Phills
Vernon Maxwell
Bill Sharman
Oladipo
Marcus Smart
Dan Majerle
Andre Roberson
Stacey Augmon
Aaron McKie
Sprewell
Lionel Hollins


That's a very long list, but in my opinion: A) It doesn't matter B) If I had to think at guys that in my opinion are weaker candidates, it would be more a thing about guys that I know less, well I could find like 5 guys than in my opinion are worse than the real candidates. And Kobe absolutely belongs in a list that big

[trex_8063]

Love the inclusion of Tom Gola and Bill Sharman; forgot about them, but they should at least get the mention.

[Dr Positivity]

It seems like the poll results is going to give us butler, andre rob, dan and thabo as sg, I think that I should open another poll for stephen jackson, Should I?

SG pretty easy for me. He played beside Bowen, Artest, and Gerald Wallace in 3 of the most important parts of this career, think he played SG for Hawks as well. Nellieball isn't indicative even though Dirk 07 playoffs defense is probably highlight of his career on that end

Edit - Nvm, he lined up with Artest less than I thought, I forgot he wasn't on 04 team. I guess he was as much SF in Indiana. Though it was by necessity

[Dr Positivity]

He's a good inclusion. I can't see myself supporting him in this project based on the skimpy number of years; but for those who are less longevity-oriented than me, he may be a valid pick at some point.

I don't know, he's been all defense caliber for about 4 years now - Avery Bradley and Klay Thompson (kinda absurd...he's a good defender but not one of the best elite defenders of all time) aren't even in his tier as defenders (especially Bradley). Seems like Smart's defense getting slept on around here again.

4 years of elite defense versus say 7 years of okay-good defense? Longevity doesn't seem to be that big of a factor

If you want to support him, do so. Though fwiw, it's not just 4 vs 7 (or whatever). Smart's also only averaged 28.7 mpg in those four seasons (vs 31-33+ for most other [major] candidates), and also been a bit injury prone (missing 15-28 games in THREE of his four seasons). So his impact per season is limited by those factors.
To put his playing time into perspective against Thompson, for example, Smart's still just shy of 7,500 minutes, whereas Thompson's at nearly 17,700 (about 2.4x as many minutes). And fwiw, I'm skeptical I'll be supporting Klay Thompson within this project either.

I'm ok with having Smart on the list. I think he has a good argument against someone like Klay

[Gibson22]

Do you guys agree that Stephen Jackson is a SG? I don't wanna open another poll ahah

[Owly]

It seems like the poll results is going to give us butler, andre rob, dan and thabo as sg, I think that I should open another poll for stephen jackson, Should I?

Anyway, tell me if I missed somebody:

Starks
Ginobili
Tr Dunn
Dumars
Eddie Johnson
Eddie Jones
Fat Lever
Jimmy Butler
Sidney Moncrief
Michael Jordan
Tony allen
Avery Bradley
THABO SEFOLOSHA
Michael cooper
Alvin Robertson
Wade
Doug Christie
Danny Green
Klay
Jerry Sloan
Kobe
Tom Gola
Don Chaney
Nick Anderson
Mitch Richmond
Raja Bell
Bobby Phills
Vernon Maxwell
Bill Sharman
Oladipo
Marcus Smart
Dan Majerle
Andre Roberson
Stacey Augmon
Aaron McKie
Sprewell
Lionel Hollins

Bill Hanzlik (yes he played with Dunn, but Denver just had guards - fwiw Dunn is the one closer to a point though neither was one really).

Jaren Jackson Sr maybe based on his DRAPM. Mario Elie and Darrell Walker if they're 2s.

I'm fine either way on Stephen Jackson, fwiw bkb-Ref has him 2:1 ratio as small forward (58 to 29 plus 12% PF).

[trex_8063]

Do you guys agree that Stephen Jackson is a SG? I don't wanna open another poll ahah

More SF, imo.

[SkyHookFTW]

Yes, I'd call Stephan Jackson a SG.

[penbeast0]

Stephen Jackson not on candidates list? I mean I'm probably not voting for him top 10 but if the long list is that long then...

Do you have Eddie Jones as SF?

Eddie was a SG but Stephen Jackson is pretty clearly a SF for the great majority of his career.

If you are including Hanslick (not that he's making many top 10s), it's definitely SF; for that matter Doug Moe used to use him to defend centers and power forwards because his legs were so strong for the rest of his body (and some of Moe's centers were so bad).