Re: Who is a better finisher than LeBron?
Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:02 am
Wait, how could I forget about Artis Gilmore He's definitely up there, might be the best inside finisher ever to be honest.
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Brooklyn_Ball33 wrote:RCM88x wrote:
He might have been compared to 97, 98 Jordan. But probably not peak Jordan, Curry's peaked around 70% which is very good but Jordan was probably around there in his prime, likely in a tougher environment so I'd give him an edge and the benefit of the doubt. Would I give him the edge over a guy in the 76-78 range (assuming he was around 70), probably not.
(Emphasis mine)That being said, Curry is probably one of the best finishing guards of all time. He uses the glass probably better than anyone in the game currently and has absolutely elite handles, better than Jordan certainly better than Jordan ever did. I don't think him being in the high 60s and breaking 70 is some indictment of the current era, he's an elite player an ATG talent. Someone like Dion Waiters shooting 70% at the rim would be.
Because he plays today in the videogame numbers era. Curry is "one of the best finishing guards of all time" for the same reason that Russell Westbrook averaged a triple double for 3 years, for the same reason that Harden had a 37/8 season, for the same reason that Isiah Thomas averaged 30 ppg, for the same reason that like 11 players this past postseason had more 50+ point playoff games than Kobe/Dirk (hyperbole but the point stands), for the same reason that Lebron somehow magically has a 10 year prime with little dip in his numbers into his mid-30's, for the same reason that a limited player like Kawhi was averaging like 36 ppg until the Finals last year. People really believe that what they are seeing is real, but it isn't. Take '20 Lebron and put him in the 2003 or 1998 or 1993 NBA and he doesn't put up the numbers he just did.
MyUniBroDavis wrote:I mean it depends on what you mean by finisher, lebrons prolly the most effective finisher ever but there are guys with better touch than him
tone wone wrote:MyUniBroDavis wrote:I mean it depends on what you mean by finisher, lebrons prolly the most effective finisher ever but there are guys with better touch than him
That doesn't make much sense. If no one is more effective how can the be those with better touch?
Brooklyn_Ball33 wrote:Again, anyone who thinks that Twink Curry is shooting 60-65% inside in, say, 1990 is deluded. Sorry. There's a reason why you've seen an explosion of high scoring short guards (6'-6'3") the last several years, and it's not because of "talent."
Arrow wrote:I don't see how Jordan has a case over LeBron. We don't have the stats for his 0-3 feet shooting numbers during his physical prime, but based on what we do have from '97 and '98 seasons, I just don't see how he has any case. Jordan was 33/34 yo in '97/'98 and shot 51%/62% from 0-3 feet in those seasons. LeBron at the same age, but with a lot more mileage, shot 77%/76%.
IG2 wrote:Arrow wrote:I don't see how Jordan has a case over LeBron. We don't have the stats for his 0-3 feet shooting numbers during his physical prime, but based on what we do have from '97 and '98 seasons, I just don't see how he has any case. Jordan was 33/34 yo in '97/'98 and shot 51%/62% from 0-3 feet in those seasons. LeBron at the same age, but with a lot more mileage, shot 77%/76%.
And the "wide open lanes" of today is a recent phenomenon (2017-current). LeBron's been in the league for 17 years and from 2004-2016, ORTGs on average are notably lower than what they were during MJ's era (1985-1998). Watch a random game from say....2014....and you won't be seeing the spaced out offenses that we see today at all. Yet LeBron was still posting interior percentages in the mid to high 70's. MJ simply wasn't on that level. A basic eye test will back this up too.
Goudelock wrote:DQuinn1575 wrote:Spoiler:
Okay, this is going to sound sacrilegious, but I don't think Erving is in the same tier as MJ and LeBron and Giannis when it comes to finishing around the rim. He was AMAZING close to the basket, don't get me wrong. But when I watch his games, it seems like Erving had a habit of getting too "cute" around the basket and blew some layups that a guy like LeBron or even Barkley wouldn't, possibly because he didn't have the raw strength the others did. Now this didn't happen very often, but it seemed to happen more to Erving than the other top-echelon guys. I actually think Dominique was better around the rim than Dr. J.
D.Brasco wrote:Goudelock wrote:DQuinn1575 wrote:Spoiler:
Okay, this is going to sound sacrilegious, but I don't think Erving is in the same tier as MJ and LeBron and Giannis when it comes to finishing around the rim. He was AMAZING close to the basket, don't get me wrong. But when I watch his games, it seems like Erving had a habit of getting too "cute" around the basket and blew some layups that a guy like LeBron or even Barkley wouldn't, possibly because he didn't have the raw strength the others did. Now this didn't happen very often, but it seemed to happen more to Erving than the other top-echelon guys. I actually think Dominique was better around the rim than Dr. J.
That sort of sounds like VC to me. He may have been the best technical dunker but he was far from an all-time finisher.
70sFan wrote:D.Brasco wrote:Goudelock wrote:
Okay, this is going to sound sacrilegious, but I don't think Erving is in the same tier as MJ and LeBron and Giannis when it comes to finishing around the rim. He was AMAZING close to the basket, don't get me wrong. But when I watch his games, it seems like Erving had a habit of getting too "cute" around the basket and blew some layups that a guy like LeBron or even Barkley wouldn't, possibly because he didn't have the raw strength the others did. Now this didn't happen very often, but it seemed to happen more to Erving than the other top-echelon guys. I actually think Dominique was better around the rim than Dr. J.
That sort of sounds like VC to me. He may have been the best technical dunker but he was far from an all-time finisher.
I'm sure that Julius was much better finisher than Vince.
D.Brasco wrote:70sFan wrote:D.Brasco wrote:
That sort of sounds like VC to me. He may have been the best technical dunker but he was far from an all-time finisher.
I'm sure that Julius was much better finisher than Vince.
Oh yeah I'm quite sure of that as well. How would you compare Dr. J to MJ as a finisher? I saw in another comment you put him in a tier with MJ but both of them below LeBron and Giannis.
Brooklyn_Ball33 wrote:RCM88x wrote:
Maybe at his peak. But certainly not over the course of his whole career which is shorter, atleast IMO.
The data we have on Jordan in 97 and 98 (tho 97 is suspect) paints Jordan as a roughly %56 shooter from 0-3 FT. For reference Lebron's worst season, his rookie year, he was at 60%. Next season he was at 73%, and over the next 8-9 seasons worked all the way up to 80%.
We can make all the hypothetical situations up that we want cross-era, but the difference between %60 and %80 is a lot.
If you believe your own line of reasoning (namely, that variations in defensive climate/rules can't possibly affect finishing rates to an extreme degree), then you also have to say that '15-'20 Curry was a better finisher than '96-'98 Jordan. And that, to anyone sensible, is risible.
ShotCreator wrote:HM to Dwight Howard and surely somebody from the 80’s I don’t know enough about.