Greatest Peaks Project (2022): #28 - 2014-15 Chris Paul

Moderators: penbeast0, PaulieWal, Clyde Frazier, Doctor MJ, trex_8063

trex_8063
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 12,502
And1: 8,139
Joined: Feb 24, 2013
     

Re: Greatest Peaks Project (2022): #28 

Post#41 » by trex_8063 » Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:12 pm

LA Bird wrote:
trex_8063 wrote:Otherwise when LABird tabulates the results, as I understand it, he will count your ballot [trelos6] as '15 Paul losing to absolutely everyone else who got a vote: that's a H2H loss to '90 Barkley, '22 Embiid, '03 TMac, '18 Harden, '19 Harden, '20 Harden, '17 Westbrook, '94 Pippen, '90 Ewing, '11 Howard, '50 Mikan, '51 Mikan, '59 Pettit, '61 Baylor, and '97 Karl Malone.

He does not assume your vote carries over to a different Chris Paul season. So....like A LOT of losses.

Just to clarify, in this example, 15 Paul only loses H2H to the seasons already included in trelos6's vote (08 Paul, 19 Harden, 90 Barkley, 93 Barkley, 03 McGrady). 15 Paul doesn't lose to say 50 Mikan because he didn't vote for either of those seasons at all.



Thank you for clarifying. I thought I had that a bit wrong (numbers from prior threads didn't add up).
Still was worth underscoring the importance of stipulating other similar-level seasons (not just for Paul's sake, but moving forward, too).
"The fact that a proposition is absurd has never hindered those who wish to believe it." -Edward Rutherfurd
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
Lost92Bricks
Veteran
Posts: 2,551
And1: 2,485
Joined: Jul 16, 2013

Re: Greatest Peaks Project (2022): #28 

Post#42 » by Lost92Bricks » Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:15 pm

No-more-rings wrote:Chris Paul likely has this spot, but I gotta say his peak and prime is still one of the more polarizing on this board. Some people think he’s like barely better than guys like Kidd or Stockton, while others think he’s basically as good as Magic Johnson. I think this is a fair enough spot for his peak, although I thought his spot for careers was overrated in the past 2 career projects.

Because for some reason people keep saying his peak is 2015 on here when he was clearly a more limited player than before. It's like saying Kevin Garnett's peak was in 2008.

His real peak is 2008 and 2009.

2015 isn't even one of his best Clippers years. 2012-2014 were all objectively better.
No-more-rings
Head Coach
Posts: 7,101
And1: 3,910
Joined: Oct 04, 2018

Re: Greatest Peaks Project (2022): #28 

Post#43 » by No-more-rings » Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:48 pm

Lost92Bricks wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:Chris Paul likely has this spot, but I gotta say his peak and prime is still one of the more polarizing on this board. Some people think he’s like barely better than guys like Kidd or Stockton, while others think he’s basically as good as Magic Johnson. I think this is a fair enough spot for his peak, although I thought his spot for careers was overrated in the past 2 career projects.

Because for some reason people keep saying his peak is 2015 on here when he was clearly a more limited player than before. It's like saying Kevin Garnett's peak was in 2008.

His real peak is 2008 and 2009.

2015 isn't even one of his best Clippers years. 2012-2014 were all objectively better.

Eh this has been discussed plenty already, you can disagree but no need to act like your opinion is fact. Also, find me 1 let alone 5 people who have 2008 as Kg’s peak.

Peak Paul isn’t clear. His best regular season was 2009 sure, but you can’t just sweep the playoffs under the rug because it suits your argument.
Lost92Bricks
Veteran
Posts: 2,551
And1: 2,485
Joined: Jul 16, 2013

Re: Greatest Peaks Project (2022): #28 

Post#44 » by Lost92Bricks » Sun Sep 18, 2022 7:47 am

There is no indication that 2015 is his peak at all.

Nothing statistically shows it, it's an average year for him.

Not by team success, it's actually his most disappointing season aside from 2019.

He wasn't in any serious MVP conversation either.
User avatar
AEnigma
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,051
And1: 5,856
Joined: Jul 24, 2022
 

Re: Greatest Peaks Project (2022): #28 

Post#45 » by AEnigma » Sun Sep 18, 2022 2:01 pm

Lost92Bricks wrote:There is no indication that 2015 is his peak at all.

Nothing statistically shows it, it's an average year for him.

Nothing in the box score shows it. It was his best on/off year with arguably his most impressive on-court rating (narrowly behind 2017 and 2018, and he played a lot more in 2015 than in either of those years). Second best AuPM season (2017, again with lower minutes), third best PIPM season (2017 and 2009), best shooting season to that point without the later age-related defensive drop-offs…

He wasn't in any serious MVP conversation either.

So you think his 2008 regular season was better than his 2009 regular season?
MyUniBroDavis wrote:Some people are clearly far too overreliant on data without context and look at good all in one or impact numbers and get wowed by that rather than looking at how a roster is actually built around a player
Lost92Bricks
Veteran
Posts: 2,551
And1: 2,485
Joined: Jul 16, 2013

Re: Greatest Peaks Project (2022): #28 

Post#46 » by Lost92Bricks » Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:07 pm

AEnigma wrote:Nothing in the box score shows it. It was his best on/off year with arguably his most impressive on-court rating (narrowly behind 2017 and 2018, and he played a lot more in 2015 than in either of those years). Second best AuPM season (2017, again with lower minutes), third best PIPM season (2017 and 2009), best shooting season to that point without the later age-related defensive drop-offs…

It's his best on/off year because of the way the team was constructed. They had a terrible bench unit and no backup PG so the team was extremely dependent on him.
User avatar
AEnigma
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,051
And1: 5,856
Joined: Jul 24, 2022
 

Re: Greatest Peaks Project (2022): #28 - 2014-15 Chris Paul 

Post#47 » by AEnigma » Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:17 pm

How is that distinct from most of his career.
MyUniBroDavis wrote:Some people are clearly far too overreliant on data without context and look at good all in one or impact numbers and get wowed by that rather than looking at how a roster is actually built around a player
Lost92Bricks
Veteran
Posts: 2,551
And1: 2,485
Joined: Jul 16, 2013

Re: Greatest Peaks Project (2022): #28 - 2014-15 Chris Paul 

Post#48 » by Lost92Bricks » Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:19 pm

AEnigma wrote:How is that distinct from most of his career.

He had Eric Bledsoe, Daren Collison, Cameron Payne, Denis Shroeder in other years.
SinceGatlingWasARookie
RealGM
Posts: 11,701
And1: 2,756
Joined: Aug 25, 2005
Location: Northern California

Re: Greatest Peaks Project (2022): #28 - 2014-15 Chris Paul 

Post#49 » by SinceGatlingWasARookie » Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:19 am

Wrong year for Chris Paul. Chris Paul peaked pre injury on New Orleans in the Playoffs with David West and Tyson Chandler. Perhaps that was 2008.

Return to Player Comparisons