Your Pick As Greatest Player Ever?

[Ian Scuffling]

I have Lebron, Jordan, Kareem and Wilt on the same tier. I've always preferred the Mount Rushmore application to the best as comparing eras is just too damned hard. So, the aforementioned gentlemen are on my Mt. Rushmore of NBA players.

[SNPA]

At this point, I think there are two possible choices: Bill Russell or LeBron James. James surpassed Kareem for career value and Russell has the best, most successful career.

My evaluation is focused on longevity, which is why James is at the top of my list. HM to Jordan and Kareem of course.

I’m curious…what if you drop longevity as a defining criteria. Any 5 year period of dominance is good enough.

What’s your GOAT list look like then?

Bill Russell at number one.

Where’s KAJ?

[70sFan]

I’m curious…what if you drop longevity as a defining criteria. Any 5 year period of dominance is good enough.

What’s your GOAT list look like then?

Bill Russell at number one.

Where’s KAJ?

Top 3-4, not sure.

[penbeast0]

5 year only, where's Mikan?

[SNPA]

Bill Russell at number one.

Where’s KAJ?

Top 3-4, not sure.

By dropping longevity how much does Bird move up?

[OhayoKD]

5 year only, where's Mikan?

I mean, we are mostly going off second-hand hearsay but 5 years as far and away the best player in the league(in this case second-hand stuff and team success are pretty much the only stuff we have to go off and as I am aware they all support that) is only something I'd say Lebron, Kareem, and Russell have a credible case for(and I think it might be a stretch for anyone there to claim they were far away better for 5 years straight(wilt, curry, walton...)).

Honestly, with that frame if you are purely era-relative i'd say he's the mostly likely to be #1.

[OhayoKD]

Bill Russell at number one.

Where’s KAJ?

Top 3-4, not sure.

I think this is the first period(disregarding whole careers) I've seen you say Kareem isn't top 2

[70sFan]

Where’s KAJ?

Top 3-4, not sure.

I think this is the first period(disregarding whole careers) I've seen you say Kareem isn't top 2

Cause LeBron exists as well.

[70sFan]

Where’s KAJ?

Top 3-4, not sure.

By dropping longevity how much does Bird move up?

A little bit, but he won't reach my top 8 either way.

[ty 4191]

Top 3-4, not sure.

By dropping longevity how much does Bird move up?

A little bit, but he won't reach my top 8 either way.

Where do you rank Bird, 70s Fan, and why?

Thanks!

[SNPA]

5 year only, where's Mikan?

I mean, we are mostly going off second-hand hearsay but 5 years as far and away the best player in the league(in this case second-hand stuff and team success are pretty much the only stuff we have to go off and as I am aware they all support that) is only something I'd say Lebron, Kareem, and Russell have a credible case for(and I think it might be a stretch for anyone there to claim they were far away better for 5 years straight(wilt, curry, walton...)).

Honestly, with that frame if you are purely era-relative i'd say he's the mostly likely to be #1.

Bird was clearly the best player on the planet for five years, every bit as much as James, KAJ and Russell.

To me GOAT is not era relative in the sense a guy only gets evaluated on his game compared to his era competition. To me a GOAT is GOAT in any era. This leads to questions like Mikan in the 80’s vs Bird in todays league.

[AEnigma]

5 year only, where's Mikan?

I mean, we are mostly going off second-hand hearsay but 5 years as far and away the best player in the league(in this case second-hand stuff and team success are pretty much the only stuff we have to go off and as I am aware they all support that) is only something I'd say Lebron, Kareem, and Russell have a credible case for(and I think it might be a stretch for anyone there to claim they were far away better for 5 years straight(wilt, curry, walton...)).

Honestly, with that frame if you are purely era-relative i'd say he's the mostly likely to be #1.

Bird was clearly the best player on the planet for five years, every bit as much as James, KAJ and Russell.

I can get at most four and even that is circumstantial, dependent on a softer talent era, and probably generous anyway.

[70sFan]

By dropping longevity how much does Bird move up?

A little bit, but he won't reach my top 8 either way.

Where do you rank Bird, 70s Fan, and why?

Thanks!

Around 15th spot. Why? In short:

- very consistent impact throughout his career,
- elite portability and underrated offense by box score,
- weak longevity for a top 20 player,
- inconsistent postseason performance.

[70sFan]

5 year only, where's Mikan?

I mean, we are mostly going off second-hand hearsay but 5 years as far and away the best player in the league(in this case second-hand stuff and team success are pretty much the only stuff we have to go off and as I am aware they all support that) is only something I'd say Lebron, Kareem, and Russell have a credible case for(and I think it might be a stretch for anyone there to claim they were far away better for 5 years straight(wilt, curry, walton...)).

Honestly, with that frame if you are purely era-relative i'd say he's the mostly likely to be #1.

Bird was clearly the best player on the planet for five years, every bit as much as James, KAJ and Russell.

To me GOAT is not era relative in the sense a guy only gets evaluated on his game compared to his era competition. To me a GOAT is GOAT in any era. This leads to questions like Mikan in the 80’s vs Bird in todays league.

For 5 years? What years do you have in mind?

[HeartBreakKid]

5 year only, where's Mikan?

I mean, we are mostly going off second-hand hearsay but 5 years as far and away the best player in the league(in this case second-hand stuff and team success are pretty much the only stuff we have to go off and as I am aware they all support that) is only something I'd say Lebron, Kareem, and Russell have a credible case for(and I think it might be a stretch for anyone there to claim they were far away better for 5 years straight(wilt, curry, walton...)).

Honestly, with that frame if you are purely era-relative i'd say he's the mostly likely to be #1.

Bird was clearly the best player on the planet for five years, every bit as much as James, KAJ and Russell.

To me GOAT is not era relative in the sense a guy only gets evaluated on his game compared to his era competition. To me a GOAT is GOAT in any era. This leads to questions like Mikan in the 80’s vs Bird in todays league.

He was not clearly the best for 5 years. James/Abdul-Jabar/Russell were more consistent players even if Bird was arbitrarily the best.

Bird is not as good as them, and I don't really have a great idea on how someone can argue he was without getting into narratives and nostalgic lens. Bird was nowhere near them on defense even in his best years, and offensively his lack of finishing ability did lead to shaky playoffs here and there. Longevity isn't the reason why Bird is not the GOAT.

Bird being the GOAT is an 80s narrative and not even a well informed one. It's long outdated and I've never actually seen someone break down why Bird should be a GOAT candidate other than saying "people thought he was the best!" which doesn't really mean anything, and is an inconsistent criteria regardless (also, not even a true statement, not everyone thought he was the best).

[OhayoKD]

I mean, we are mostly going off second-hand hearsay but 5 years as far and away the best player in the league(in this case second-hand stuff and team success are pretty much the only stuff we have to go off and as I am aware they all support that) is only something I'd say Lebron, Kareem, and Russell have a credible case for(and I think it might be a stretch for anyone there to claim they were far away better for 5 years straight(wilt, curry, walton...)).

Honestly, with that frame if you are purely era-relative i'd say he's the mostly likely to be #1.

Bird was clearly the best player on the planet for five years, every bit as much as James, KAJ and Russell.

To me GOAT is not era relative in the sense a guy only gets evaluated on his game compared to his era competition. To me a GOAT is GOAT in any era. This leads to questions like Mikan in the 80’s vs Bird in todays league.

He was not clearly the best for 5 years. James/Abdul-Jabar/Russell were more consistent players even if Bird was arbitrarily the best.

Bird is not as good as them, and I don't really have a great idea on how someone can argue he was without getting into narratives and nostalgic lens. Bird was nowhere near them on defense even in his best years, and offensively his lack of finishing ability did lead to shaky playoffs here and there. Longevity isn't the reason why Bird is not the GOAT.

Bird being the GOAT is an 80s narrative and not even a well informed one. It's long outdated and I've never actually seen someone break down why Bird should be a GOAT candidate other than saying "people thought he was the best!" which doesn't really mean anything, and is an inconsistent criteria regardless (also, not even a true statement, not everyone thought he was the best).

The finishing hurts, but not really as big an issue as the limited ball-handling. Magic could destroy defenses before he made a pass, Bird could not. His actual creation is a lot weaker than his raw passing ability would suggest and the rest follows.

I also don't think there's much reason to entertain bird vs magic. Outside of taking his rookie-team lift(unreplicated) at face-value, Magic sweeps statistically, obviously is advantaged in terms of team-success, and repeatedly made finals(where injuries nuetered the team) even when his supporting cast fell off or straight up retired.

[ty 4191]

I mean, we are mostly going off second-hand hearsay but 5 years as far and away the best player in the league(in this case second-hand stuff and team success are pretty much the only stuff we have to go off and as I am aware they all support that) is only something I'd say Lebron, Kareem, and Russell have a credible case for(and I think it might be a stretch for anyone there to claim they were far away better for 5 years straight(wilt, curry, walton...)).

Honestly, with that frame if you are purely era-relative i'd say he's the mostly likely to be #1.

Bird was clearly the best player on the planet for five years, every bit as much as James, KAJ and Russell.

To me GOAT is not era relative in the sense a guy only gets evaluated on his game compared to his era competition. To me a GOAT is GOAT in any era. This leads to questions like Mikan in the 80’s vs Bird in todays league.

For 5 years? What years do you have in mind?

70's Fan. Perhaps 1983-1984 through 1987-1988??

Regular Season:









Playoffs:

[ty 4191]

I mean, we are mostly going off second-hand hearsay but 5 years as far and away the best player in the league(in this case second-hand stuff and team success are pretty much the only stuff we have to go off and as I am aware they all support that) is only something I'd say Lebron, Kareem, and Russell have a credible case for(and I think it might be a stretch for anyone there to claim they were far away better for 5 years straight(wilt, curry, walton...)).

Honestly, with that frame if you are purely era-relative i'd say he's the mostly likely to be #1.

Bird was clearly the best player on the planet for five years, every bit as much as James, KAJ and Russell.

To me GOAT is not era relative in the sense a guy only gets evaluated on his game compared to his era competition. To me a GOAT is GOAT in any era. This leads to questions like Mikan in the 80’s vs Bird in todays league.

He was not clearly the best for 5 years. James/Abdul-Jabar/Russell were more consistent players even if Bird was arbitrarily the best.

Bird is not as good as them, and I don't really have a great idea on how someone can argue he was without getting into narratives and nostalgic lens. Bird was nowhere near them on defense even in his best years, and offensively his lack of finishing ability did lead to shaky playoffs here and there. Longevity isn't the reason why Bird is not the GOAT.

Bird being the GOAT is an 80s narrative and not even a well informed one. It's long outdated and I've never actually seen someone break down why Bird should be a GOAT candidate other than saying "people thought he was the best!" which doesn't really mean anything, and is an inconsistent criteria regardless (also, not even a true statement, not everyone thought he was the best).

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/fy4m7u/players_with_the_most_top_5_mvp_finishes_in_nba/

Over a 9 year stretch, Larry Bird won 3 MVPs, came in 2nd 4 times, 3rd once and 4th once. Sheer dominance.

8)Larry Bird: 88(2), 87(3), 86(1), 85(1), 84(1), 83(2), 82(2), 81(2), 80(4) = 9 (3 MVPs) (4 2nd places)

[HeartBreakKid]

Bird was clearly the best player on the planet for five years, every bit as much as James, KAJ and Russell.

To me GOAT is not era relative in the sense a guy only gets evaluated on his game compared to his era competition. To me a GOAT is GOAT in any era. This leads to questions like Mikan in the 80’s vs Bird in todays league.

He was not clearly the best for 5 years. James/Abdul-Jabar/Russell were more consistent players even if Bird was arbitrarily the best.

Bird is not as good as them, and I don't really have a great idea on how someone can argue he was without getting into narratives and nostalgic lens. Bird was nowhere near them on defense even in his best years, and offensively his lack of finishing ability did lead to shaky playoffs here and there. Longevity isn't the reason why Bird is not the GOAT.

Bird being the GOAT is an 80s narrative and not even a well informed one. It's long outdated and I've never actually seen someone break down why Bird should be a GOAT candidate other than saying "people thought he was the best!" which doesn't really mean anything, and is an inconsistent criteria regardless (also, not even a true statement, not everyone thought he was the best).

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/fy4m7u/players_with_the_most_top_5_mvp_finishes_in_nba/

Over a 9 year stretch, Larry Bird won 3 MVPs, came in 2nd 4 times, 3rd once and 4th once. Sheer dominance.

8)Larry Bird: 88(2), 87(3), 86(1), 85(1), 84(1), 83(2), 82(2), 81(2), 80(4) = 9 (3 MVPs) (4 2nd places)

Yes, everyone here already knows this. What does that have to do with anything?

That own metric you posted doesn't support that Bird is the GOAT, it would imply the opposite.

[70sFan]

Bird was clearly the best player on the planet for five years, every bit as much as James, KAJ and Russell.

To me GOAT is not era relative in the sense a guy only gets evaluated on his game compared to his era competition. To me a GOAT is GOAT in any era. This leads to questions like Mikan in the 80’s vs Bird in todays league.

For 5 years? What years do you have in mind?

70's Fan. Perhaps 1983-1984 through 1987-1988??

Regular Season:









Playoffs:

The links don't work unfortunately.

With that being said, calling Bird "clearly the best player on the planet" in 1986/87 and 1987/88 is a huge reach to me. I don't think he has much of a case for the best period in 1987/88, let alone "clearly the best".