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trex_8063 wrote:I'd add to this that Brunson has seemed [to my limited eye] a respectable defender at his position, too.
Melo was......well, not.

I think RCM88X said it correctly: in raw/absolutes, yes, I think he is the best since Ewing. Relative to the league during years in question, '13 Melo might still have an edge.

Doctor MJ wrote:

JimmyFromNz wrote:I enjoy the odd shot at Melo, but Chandler better than Melo on those NYK teams ? That seems creative.

It wasn't a question at the time, and I doubt from anyone closely following those teams it would be today.

If it is an 'impact' argument (playing exclusively one side of the ball, whilst we negate Melo for playing the other) there are few impact metrics that support a conclusion - arbitrary WS totals or being equally as poor as Melo in unreliable RAPM numbers maybe?

Contextually (its important) the DPOY race was historically as underwhelming as it got due to Dwight's injury (if i recall correctly) and the fact voters simply wouldn't consider anyone outside of a traditional big as being worthy. It was more than anything a carry over from the Dallas run. The media's attention span would proceed to do a complete U-turn on Tyson the following seasons and he never garnered any serious consideration following that.

Not really looking to take a stand on the player comparison, but I'll say that it was indeed something that was discussed at the time.

JimmyFromNz wrote:

Doctor MJ wrote:

JimmyFromNz wrote:I enjoy the odd shot at Melo, but Chandler better than Melo on those NYK teams ? That seems creative.

It wasn't a question at the time, and I doubt from anyone closely following those teams it would be today.

If it is an 'impact' argument (playing exclusively one side of the ball, whilst we negate Melo for playing the other) there are few impact metrics that support a conclusion - arbitrary WS totals or being equally as poor as Melo in unreliable RAPM numbers maybe?

Contextually (its important) the DPOY race was historically as underwhelming as it got due to Dwight's injury (if i recall correctly) and the fact voters simply wouldn't consider anyone outside of a traditional big as being worthy. It was more than anything a carry over from the Dallas run. The media's attention span would proceed to do a complete U-turn on Tyson the following seasons and he never garnered any serious consideration following that.

Not really looking to take a stand on the player comparison, but I'll say that it was indeed something that was discussed at the time.

Do you mean within the four corners of this forum? We can certainly acknowledge his value to the team and that being the defensive anchor contributed largely to their relative 'success', but there really wasn't any sort of public conversation, neither from memory nor any recorded credible media, that he was better than Melo.

On another note, Brunson's playoff performance (at least in the past two games) does lend a lot of weight to the original question.

Doctor MJ wrote:

JimmyFromNz wrote:

Doctor MJ wrote:
Not really looking to take a stand on the player comparison, but I'll say that it was indeed something that was discussed at the time.

Do you mean within the four corners of this forum? We can certainly acknowledge his value to the team and that being the defensive anchor contributed largely to their relative 'success', but there really wasn't any sort of public conversation, neither from memory nor any recorded credible media, that he was better than Melo.

On another note, Brunson's playoff performance (at least in the past two games) does lend a lot of weight to the original question.

No, I saw it elsewhere. I'm not going to spend the time to find it, so take my memory for what you will.

I will say though, the implication that if it's only on RealGM it's not real doesn't resonate with me at all having lived through the entirety of the pace & space revolution and seeing the mainstream press many steps behind as a matter of course.

rk2023 wrote:I say yeah, as one who’s higher than consensus on here with regards to how good Peak Melo was on offense. I think Brunson’s superior ability to drive, probe, react and open up the floor in a much better manner than Melo did gives him the edge. Don’t really have much to say on either’s defensive acumen lol..

rk2023 wrote: Don’t really have much to say on either’s defensive acumen lol..

Amare_1_Knicks wrote:

rk2023 wrote: Don’t really have much to say on either’s defensive acumen lol..

The only thing I’ll add here is that Brunson was leading the league for much of the year in charges drawn, and finished 2nd or 3rd in that category. He’s more engaged on that end than Melo and comes through with some heady plays.. but still, his size/athleticism doesn’t lend itself to him being a conventionally good defensive player.

tsherkin wrote:

rk2023 wrote:I say yeah, as one who’s higher than consensus on here with regards to how good Peak Melo was on offense. I think Brunson’s superior ability to drive, probe, react and open up the floor in a much better manner than Melo did gives him the edge. Don’t really have much to say on either’s defensive acumen lol..

I think a guy who creates for others is usually going to rate out higher than an iso player who doesn't do much but finish, to be fair. New York Melo was basically his best form, so it's a little tougher than average to make the comparison in theory, but I think you have to take the Brunson archetype over Melo basically any day of the week if the choice is available.

Cavsfansince84 wrote:
I think it also goes beyond archetypes though. Melo had a career long reputation as a lazy defender, somewhat poor leadership skills and not giving his all in other areas(rebounding, conditioning, etc). So that's also part of why a lot of people don't favor him in these kinds of comparisons. Plus his shot selection.

tsherkin wrote:
All of that, sure, except the rebounding. He did fine as a rebounder, especially while he was a wing.

Cavsfansince84 wrote:

tsherkin wrote:
All of that, sure, except the rebounding. He did fine as a rebounder, especially while he was a wing.

I think he did ok at rebounding. Career 10.1 treb% which is decent for a sf. Luka for instance has a career 13.7%.

ceoofkobefans wrote:He’s the best Knick since Melo but he’s closer to Julius Randle than Melo