Bynum vs Yao

[farzi]

Yao. Not even KIND of a question in my mind. Bynum may well end up being the 3rd best center in the league a few years from now, but that'll be by a large margin behind the other 2. (Oden / Howard)

[TMACFORMVP]

Defense is the epitome of a team effort. As long as Phil Jackson continues to start Luke Walton and Lamar Odom the Lakers will never played ELITE defense. It's just not possible with those two liabilities on the floor.

Do they still start Walton? I thought it was Ariza, at least from that Phoenix game I saw. Not too sure on that so I won't reply. The fact still remains though is that Yao has anchored a Top 5 defensive team in the NBA no matter who's around him for his whole career thus far. Francis and Mobley were never considered good defenders, yet they were still one of the best.

But like I pointed out, Bynum alters just as many shots as Yao does. Trust me. Yao has incredible HEIGHT, I agree. But he will never, ever be able to rotate like Bynum or play the PICK AND ROLL (which is the most run play in basketball) as well Bynum.

Really don't think Bynum alters as much as Yao at this point, we've always been one of the top interior defending teams in the NBA, and there are a bunch of stats that can prove that.

I definitely agree with the second part though, Bynum's athleticism and quickness gives him a definite advantage on those pick an roll plays which is big factor, but not something IMO to completely over turn the advantages Yao has on him in other aspects.

Right now, defensively, Yao has the advantage of in terms of foul issues. Bynum's biggest problem is getting those cheap fouls, but other than that, you can easily claim his defense is superior due his athleticism, anchor ability and superior rebounding.

He definitely has the potential to do all that and should be the better defensive anchor as time comes because of his athleticism and quickness advantage BUT as of right now the fact remains no matter who is around Yao, we should still be a good defensive team and I don't honestly see how you can refute that considering Yao has proven it literally every year of his career.

Thats if you're owner who cares more about revenue compared to success/winning titles. Not all owners are created equal.

Was just stating the fact, since some owners really do care about that considering it's a business. And besides it's not like Yao is so far below Bynum that it's a matter of not winning a championship or losing in the first round. Especially since Yao is currently the better player.

[KobeFarmarEra]

Do they still start Walton? I thought it was Ariza, at least from that Phoenix game I saw. Not too sure on that so I won't reply. The fact still remains though is that Yao has anchored a Top 5 defensive team in the NBA no matter who's around him for his whole career thus far. Francis and Mobley were never considered good defenders, yet they were still one of the best.

Walton was hurt.

I never claimed Yao isn't a good defender/anchor but defense has alot to do with team coaching/effort and we can't really guage those two factors accurately. But Luke/Odom are pretty terrible defenders at their respective position and have to 'hidden' on defense at times since they both tend to matchup with ELITE players that they have no business guarding. Also, Jeff Van Gundy is a fantastic defensive coach (IMO better Phil Jackson the Lakers owner also agrees with this statement as he stated it on local radio).

Really don't think Bynum alters as much as Yao at this point, we've always been one of the top interior defending teams in the NBA, and there are a bunch of stats that can prove that.

Well he does. He also blocks more shots in less minutes. So while I have evidence stating that Bynum is a superior shotblocker, you have zero evidence showing that Yao alters more shots. I also POINTED OUT in a previous post that Bynum holds opposing centers to LOWER efg% and PER than Yao which bolsters my claim. So until you can prove otherwise: Bynum is the better anchor at this point and time.

I definitely agree with the second part though, Bynum's athleticism and quickness gives him a definite advantage on those pick an roll plays which is big factor, but not something IMO to completely over turn the advantages Yao has on him in other aspects.

Pick and roll is being run more than ever. It's ridiculous. It was one of Shaq's main flaws and is definetely one of Yao's since good teams will bring Yao out and exploit his lack of lateral quickness.

Then there is man defense. Bynum is ridiculously quick for his size/weight so he also has the advantage in terms of man defense. Just saying.

He definitely has the potential to do all that and should be the better defensive anchor as time comes because of his athleticism and quickness advantage BUT as of right now the fact remains no matter who is around Yao, we should still be a good defensive team and I don't honestly see how you can refute that considering Yao has proven it literally every year of his career.

Lakers opponents: efg% .477 and a FG% of .439

Houston opponents: efg% .472 and a FG% of .438

Team defense this year is a moot argument considering all the variable factors and both teams are similar this season. Total points are meaningless because it based on possesions and the offense each team runs has to factor into that. Also, close range FG% is a shaky stat becaus you also have to factor how many minutes each of them is playing, who their power forward is, zone defense, perimeter defense, who their backup - basically a futile exercise.

Was just stating the fact, since some owners really do care about that considering it's a business. And besides it's not like Yao is so far below Bynum that it's a matter of not winning a championship or losing in the first round. Especially since Yao is currently the better player.

You're post is an opinion, so we can agree to disagree. My OP was meant to mean who you would choose terms of on the court and not the business aspect of the game. [/url]

[VintaGe36]

When the two players are THAT close, and your choosing one to build your franchise around, it ABSOLUTELY matters.

Bynum at his peak IMO will NOT be THAT much better than Yao, if even, the money Yao brings in absolutely matters in this case.

[NO-KG-AI]

It's still funny how you say he had a vertical as high as Howard at the pre-draft camp, and it's a PROVEN FACT.

it's also a PROVEN FACT, that he didn't attend the pre-draft camp, and there is no official vertical on record for Bynum.

If you want to be a homer and pick Bynum over much better players, go right ahead, but don't pass off false rumors as PROVEN FACTS.

[NYKnick87]

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Well he does. He also blocks more shots in less minutes. So while I have evidence stating that Bynum is a superior shotblocker, you have zero evidence showing that Yao alters more shots. I also POINTED OUT in a previous post that Bynum holds opposing centers to LOWER efg% and PER than Yao which bolsters my claim. So until you can prove otherwise: Bynum is the better anchor at this point and time.

Just because Bynum holds opposing centers to a lower eFG% and PER means absolutely nothing considering that the centers in today's game are absolutely garbage. Furthermore, holding your opponent counterpart to a lower eFG% and PER does not mean he is an anchor of anything. It just means that he can hold the man he's guarding. You're also ignoring that Yao "holds" opposing centers to less rebounds and assists and also "causes" more TOs. So actually, your claim is weak.

Lakers opponents: efg% .477 and a FG% of .439

Houston opponents: efg% .472 and a FG% of .438

Team defense this year is a moot argument considering all the variable factors and both teams are similar this season. Total points are meaningless because it based on possesions and the offense each team runs has to factor into that. Also, close range FG% is a shaky stat becaus you also have to factor how many minutes each of them is playing, who their power forward is, zone defense, perimeter defense, who their backup - basically a futile exercise.

So in essence, you're saying that team defensive statistics are meaningless. Riighht...

[NYKnick87]

It's still funny how you say he had a vertical as high as Howard at the pre-draft camp, and it's a PROVEN FACT.

it's also a PROVEN FACT, that he didn't attend the pre-draft camp, and there is no official vertical on record for Bynum.

If you want to be a homer and pick Bynum over much better players, go right ahead, but don't pass off false rumors as PROVEN FACTS.

LOL I can't believe you're the first one to call him out on that. Howard has a 38 inch vertical. Bynum's vert is NOWHERE near that.

[Baller 24]

You should look to add a poll to this...Itd be interesting in your claim to see who people would take even for the future.

[Baller 24]

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The same curry who doesnt rebound, play a lick of defence, and has no passing game?

Your credibility rating=0.

But on topic.
This is stupid.
Yao>>>>Bynum offensively.
Yao>Bynum defensively.

/thread.

Agreed


But IMO Curry>Bynum right now, Curry offensively is either a 1st or 2nd option. Bynum well he isn't....He can work around the basket, and doesn't have that bad of a turn around. He is a liability defensively, but offensively Curry>Bynum.

[KobeFarmarEra]

Just because Bynum holds opposing centers to a lower eFG% and PER means absolutely nothing considering that the centers in today's game are absolutely garbage.

So Duncan, Kaman, Amare etc are garbage? Just wondering

Furthermore, holding your opponent counterpart to a lower eFG% and PER does not mean he is an anchor of anything.

Oh, it doesn't? Well, I mean you CONVINCED ME. Lets just ignore those stats and also ignore that Bynum blocks more shots than Yao, in less minutes. By your logic Yao is not an anchor either.

It just means that he can hold the man he's guarding. You're also ignoring that Yao "holds" opposing centers to less rebounds and assists and also "causes" more TOs. So actually, your claim is weak.

You type that garbage yet call my claim weak? Nice hypcorisy you got going there.

So in essence, you're saying that team defensive statistics are meaningless. Riighht...

No, work on your reading comprehension.

[KobeFarmarEra]

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Agreed


But IMO Curry>Bynum right now, Curry offensively is either a 1st or 2nd option. Bynum well he isn't....He can work around the basket, and doesn't have that bad of a turn around. He is a liability defensively, but offensively Curry>Bynum.

Wait a second:

[Baller 24]

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Wait a second:

Id expect that from a poster who thinks Bynum is and will be the greatest Center of all time....

But anyways....you keep saying that Bynum averages more blocks in less minutes...but you never explained the fact that in the past years Yao has also played only close to 30 mins and put up over 18pts, 9reb, and 2blks, on 50% shooting.

So let me get this right, your only argument and reason why Bynum will be better for the future and now is because Bynum averages better rebounds, blocks, FG % shooting in less time then Yao?
Bynum is athletic, but HE DOES NOT have the athletic ability of Amare OR Dwight....nor has he developed the type of skill or touch Yao OR Curry have....

[KobeFarmarEra]

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Id expect that from a poster who thinks Bynum is and will be the greatest Center of all time....

I never said that.

But anyways....you keep saying that Bynum averages more blocks in less minutes...but you never explained the fact that in the past years Yao has also played only close to 30 mins and put up over 18pts, 9reb, and 2blks, on 50% shooting.

Bynum average more blocks in less minutes. Thats what I was saying.

So let me get this right, your only argument and reason why Bynum will be better for the future and now is because Bynum averages better rebounds, blocks, FG % shooting in less time then Yao?

Read the original post. You do realize Bynum turned 20 LAST MONTH, right? You do realize at 20 years old, Bynum is putting up SUPERIOR NUMBERS compared to Yao at age 22, right?

Bynum is athletic, but HE DOES NOT have the athletic ability of Amare OR Dwight....nor has he developed the type of skill or touch Yao OR Curry have....

Bynum has a very good skill and touch around the basket, it's just not refined yet. He has the potential to be a great offensive player. But regardless, Bynum is a better defender/rebounder than Curry/Yao RIGHT NOW, at 20 years old.

Curry is a terrible rebounder/defender.

Just imagine in him in 2-3 years.

[SDChargers#1]

Eddy Curry is in no way shape or form better than Andrew Bynum. I'm sorry, but that is just complete ignorance.

Eddy Curry is an AWFUL rebounder for a center (less than 6 per game) ADVANTAGE Bynum (BY A LOT)

Eddy Curry is an AWFUL passer for any position (.5 per game) ADVANTAGE Bynum (Bynum is actually already a really good passer, almost 2 apg in under 30 min as a center)

Eddy Curry is an AWFUL defender (Less than .5 bpg and spg) ADVANTAGE Bynum (Bynum is a MUCH better blocker and even gets more steals)

Eddy Curry is an OK offensive player (Puts up 14.5 ppg on 53% shooting) ADVANTAGE Curry (Bynum puts up 12.8 ppg on 63% shooting). It's arguable who is actually better offensively right now, but for the sake of argument I will just say that he is better.

So let me get this straight, Eddy Curry's 1.7 ppg more than Bynum makes up for Bynum being better IN EVERY FACET OF THE GAME? Sorry, but you are absolutely 100% wrong. Just look at their EFF, Curry's - 11.81 / Bynum's - 21.23

Anyone who would actually take Curry over Bynum either doesn't watch Bynum play or just doesn't know basketball.

P.S. Bynum is already the Lakers 2nd / 3rd option depending on whether Lamar is having a good game. Are you saying that Curry being the 2nd option compared to Bynum being the 3rd is enough for Curry to be ahead of him? I think not.

[Baller 24]

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Bynum has the skill and touch of Curry, it's just not refined. He has the potential to be a great offensive player. But regardless, Bynum is a better defender/rebounder than Curry/Yao RIGHT NOW, at 20 years old.

Just imagine in him in 2-3 years.

He is a good player, but im just saying he won't reach the potential Yao has, or Yao still has to reach....btw sure Bynum is 20 years old and Yao was doing his thing when he was 22....BUT I have been following the Rockets my hole life, and when Yao first came to Houston, his average in the first 10 games of the season was 2ppg, he didnt even get to start because he was so lost. He got called on fouls, he didn't understand some of the rules, and he was getting thrown around the court by players undersized. So if your going to say Bynum was only 17 yrs old when he came in, he was Young, then I can say the same for Yao, he was young, he was from China, it was a different atmosphere, and A LOT more competitive, but he learned fast, and used his skills, and when Jeff Van Gundy arrived he thrived and blossomed both offensively and defensively.


And how are you saying Bynum averages more blocks in less minutes. Yao currently averages 2.3 block shots, Bynum 2.1?

And Yes, Bynum is a SLIGHTLY better rebounder, but defensively I don't think hes better. Yao the past 4yrs has played on a team that has ranked in the top 3 defensively, you can't say he didn't learn anything.

[SDChargers#1]

Nice post...oh and Amare is currently twice the player Bynum is, we will see how far Bynum progresses. Yao is, and will always be >>>Bynum, Bynum will be good one day, but he will be no where near the level Yao is at currently..

Why do you keep saying this. Bynum is ALREADY good. Not will be good, but ALREADY GOOD.

I don't think anyone in their right mind would take Bynum over Yao today. Yao is obviously better and the best C in the game. But the talk is about the future.

You act like Yao is light years ahead of Bynum....HE ISN'T. He puts up 9 more ppg and that is about it. Bynum rebounds just as well (already), blocks just as well (already), and passes just as well (already).

Yea Yao is a much better FT shooter, but Bynum is MUCH better from the floor,i so I think that would be a moot point. And for those who are about to say..."well Yao shoots more outside shots." Well good for him. I would rather have a guy who dominates the post than the perimeter EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK.

Bynum will never be as good as Yao? Well that may be. He may get injured. He may get a contract and stop trying. But to say he doesn't have the potential to pass Yao is just ignorance, nothing more.

[Baller 24]

Eddy Curry is in no way shape or form better than Andrew Bynum. I'm sorry, but that is just complete ignorance.

Eddy Curry is an AWFUL rebounder for a center (less than 6 per game) ADVANTAGE Bynum (BY A LOT)

Eddy Curry is an AWFUL passer for any position (.5 per game) ADVANTAGE Bynum (Bynum is actually already a really good passer, almost 2 apg in under 30 min as a center)

Eddy Curry is an AWFUL defender (Less than .5 bpg and spg) ADVANTAGE Bynum (Bynum is a MUCH better blocker and even gets more steals)

Eddy Curry is an OK offensive player (Puts up 14.5 ppg on 53% shooting) ADVANTAGE Curry (Bynum puts up 12.8 ppg on 63% shooting). It's arguable who is actually better offensively right now, but for the sake of argument I will just say that he is better.

So let me get this straight, Eddy Curry's 1.7 ppg more than Bynum makes up for Bynum being better IN EVERY FACET OF THE GAME? Sorry, but you are absolutely 100% wrong. Just look at their EFF, Curry's - 11.81 / Bynum's - 21.23

Anyone who would actually take Curry over Bynum either doesn't watch Bynum play or just doesn't know basketball.

P.S. Bynum is already the Lakers 2nd / 3rd option depending on whether Lamar is having a good game. Are you saying that Curry being the 2nd option compared to Bynum being the 3rd is enough for Curry to be ahead of him? I think not.

First of all, I didn't say anything except offensively, and I didn't say Id take Curry over Bynum....And STOP using stats, Curry has MUCH MUCH HIGHER POTENTIAL offensivly then Bynum has ever in his career.

Bynum is no where near DOMINANT, if thats dominant to you then you should also say that Tyson Chandlar is dominant because he also puts up 12pts, 12reb, and 2blks.....

[wezbo]

yao> bynum,

but on the curry vs bynum debate bynum only avgs 7 shots a game

[KobeFarmarEra]

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He is a good player, but im just saying he won't reach the potential Yao has, or Yao still has to reach....btw sure Bynum is 20 years old and Yao was doing his thing when he was 22....BUT I have been following the Rockets my hole life, and when Yao first came to Houston, his average in the first 10 games of the season was 2ppg, he didnt even get to start because he was so lost. He got called on fouls, he didn't understand some of the rules, and he was getting thrown around the court by players undersized. So if your going to say Bynum was only 17 yrs old when he came in, he was Young, then I can say the same for Yao, he was young, he was from China, it was a different atmosphere, and A LOT more competitive, but he learned fast, and used his skills, and when Jeff Van Gundy arrived he thrived and blossomed both offensively and defensively.

Bynum put up superior numbers at 20 year old compared to Yao at 22. Fact.

Bynum puts up better rebounding/blocks/FG% at 20 years old than Yao does at 27.

And how are you saying Bynum averages more blocks in less minutes. Yao currently averages 2.3 block shots, Bynum 2.1?

Oh ok. Yao was averagin 1.8 blocks before the New York Knicks game (he had 4) which brought his average up to 2.3. Thats why.

Ok. Bynum averages 2.1 blocks in 29 minutes while gets 2.3 blocks in 37 minutes. Advantage BYNUM.

And Yes, Bynum is a SLIGHTLY better rebounder, but defensively I don't think hes better. Yao the past 4yrs has played on a team that has ranked in the top 3 defensively, you can't say he didn't learn anything.

Heh, slighty? 10.6 boards in 37 minutes is absolutely pathetic for a 7'6 center. Sorry. Bynum grabs 10.1 in 29 minutes. Bynum is the superior rebounder no matter how you slice it. By a wide margin.

Bynum is the better anchor IMO (the stats support that claim), he is the better rebounder. If you want to be in denial of Bynum's defensive ability, whatever. Keeping shutting your eyes.

I already admitted, in this thread that Yao is the better overall player for right now. Of course, lets ignore the fact that Bynum is SEVEN YEARS YOUNGER and already a better reounder/shotblocker and shoots a better % from the field.

But Eddie Curry? Hahah, Bynum TORCHED HIM as a rookie and is already the better player. Thats hilarious of you to even bring it up.

[wezbo]

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Heh, slighty? 10.6 boards in 37 minutes is absolutely pathetic for a 7'6 center. Sorry. Bynum grabs 10.1 in 29 minutes. Bynum is the superior rebounder no matter how you slice it. By a wide margin.

Bynum is the better anchor IMO (the stats support that claim), he is the better rebounder. If you want to be in denial of Bynum's defensive ability, whatever. Keeping shutting your eyes.

I already admitted, in this thread that Yao is the better overall player for right now. Of course, lets ignore the fact that Bynum is SEVEN YEARS YOUNGER and already a better reounder/shotblocker and shoots a better % from the field.

But Eddie Curry? Hahah, Bynum TORCHED HIM as a rookie and is already the better player. Thats hilarious of you to even bring it up.

if he was really that good defensively we wouldnt be playign kwame more than 5 minutes