Do you consider Calderon a top 10 point guard?

[Kosta]

-= original quote snipped =-



You seriously believe that?

Of course Calderon would be better than them. It's just that I think they are in the same tier. Calderon is being somewhat benefited from playing in that uptempo offense, isn't he?

Anyway, I'll give my rankings.

1st tier:
Nash
Kidd
Paul
2nd tier:
Deron
Iverson (if counted as PG)
Billups
Davis
Healthy Arenas
Tony Parker

3rd tier:
Heinrich when in a good situation
Healthy TJ (big if here)
Roy (if counted as PG)
Andre Miller
Bibby

4th tier:
Calderon - this is the least he can be at. I want to see him play until the end of the season, but if he can continue producing these numbers, he can be in the 3rd or even 2nd tier.
Mo Williams
Felton
Nelson
whoever

I think you're going on rep alone and past success, I'm talking about right now, this season, Calderon is better than those 3rd and 4th tier guys and I believe he's proven it and sustained his play over a long enough period of time to warrant it. I don't consider Roy a point guard and if I did, he'd in that second tier right now. And Billups should be first tier.

1st tier A:

Paul
Nash
Billups

1st tier B:

Baron
Arenas
Kidd
Deron

2nd tier:

Tony P.
Calderon
Ford

3rd tier:

The best of the rest.

[HarlemHeat37]

some of the people that have been listed are laughable..JAMEER NELSON?! Felton? Andre Miller? get the **** out of here..

Tier 1(no order)
Nash
Paul

Tier 2
Kidd
Williams
Davis
Billups
Parker
Arenas

I'd say Calderon falls in the 3rd tier..he's definitely in the top 10..I might be forgetting somebody, but I don't think I'm forgetting 2 players, so that would put him in the top 10..

his effeciency numbers are great, and he's contributing heavily to a good team by East standards..and more importantly, what have these other players done? Nelson? Miller? Felton? Mo Williams? what have any of these players done?..

[dbodner]

I think all 10 are better than Calderon, though it's pretty close with Parker and TJ.
Also, AI has been a PG for the vast majority of his career, playing a little bit of SG does not make him not a PG.

You've kinda got it backwards. AI was the SG the vast majority of his career, playing a bit of PG. AI was the SG from the time Larry Brown acquired Eric Snow (1997) until Jim O'Brien came to town (2004). AI played PG his first 1.5 years as a Sixer, and his final 2 years as a sixer. But during his prime (1997-2004) he played SG, and now in Denver he's back to being a SG with the Nuggets.

[Kosta]

So far this season... (come playoffs, the veteran stars will realign and Nash, Billups and Kidd will top the charts again):

1. Paul
2. Nash
3. Kidd
4. Davis
5. Williams
6. Billups
7. Parker
8. Fisher
9. Ford (until injury)
10. Calderon

Shame that Hinrich has removed him self far off this list...

Damn, I'm not feeling Derek Fisher that high, don't get me wrong, I think he's a fine player, a very clutch shooter and has raised him game upon returning to L.A. But I wouldn't put him in the top 10. Maybe somewhere in the 15 or so range? Not sure, but I think he's getting a little overrated here.

[Boogie-Boogz]

With Ford not playing YEs Calderon is a top 10 for sure. But even as a back up him and Ford both belong there

[mudyez]

Nash
Kidd
Paul
Parker
Billups
Deron
Davis
Arenas
Hinrich
Miller

-->NO

[Boogie-Boogz]

Nash
Kidd
Paul
Parker
Billups
Deron
Davis
Arenas
Hinrich
Miller

-->NO

Both Calderon and Ford are better than Miller and Hinrich, so what are you talking about?

[Kosta]

Nash
Kidd
Paul
Parker
Billups
Deron
Davis
Arenas
Hinrich
Miller

-->NO

If we ignore what each player has done this season, sure. If we go by the numbers and what those three guys have produced this season, Calderon easily.

[KF10]

Could anybody describe Calderon's game looks like? Is he effective with the ball and w/o the ball? Good shooter? Good penetrator? and etc...

For me I was blasted for calling Calderon as the same level as of this year's Beno... So, I really want to learn from my misconceptions of Calderon please...

[Harry Palmer]

Could anybody describe Calderon's game looks like? Is he effective with the ball and w/o the ball? Good shooter? Good penetrator? and etc...

For me I was blasted for calling Calderon as the same level as of this year's Beno... So, I really want to learn from my misconceptions of Calderon please...

Solid, dependable with the ball. Changes speeds and catches people off guard on penetration, but much less so when they're looking for it. Pick and roll specialist. Hot and cold as a shooter, but lately generally the former. Good vision on the break, aggressive until the D sets, after which he floats on the perim and sets the play. Nice ability to combine looking pass first with a feel for when to exploit own match-up. Fiery guy, competitor, twitchy player.

Can't defend worth a lick, and is rare in that he can beat off the bounce, in traffic, or backed-in. Strangely ineffective playing the passing lanes. Gets lost in traffic, and will duck under screens at times.

All in all think a poor man's Nash, and you'll have some idea, though he can't sustain his dribble anywhere near as well.

[KF10]

-= original quote snipped =-



Solid, dependable with the ball. Changes speeds and catches people off guard on penetration, but much less so when they're looking for it. Pick and roll specialist. Hot and cold as a shooter, but lately generally the former. Good vision on the break, aggressive until the D sets, after which he floats on the perim and sets the play. Nice ability to combine looking pass first with a feel for when to exploit own match-up. Fiery guy, competitor, twitchy player.

Can't defend worth a lick, and is rare in that he can beat off the bounce, in traffic, or backed-in. Strangely ineffective playing the passing lanes. Gets lost in traffic, and will duck under screens at times.

All in all think a poor man's Nash, and you'll have some idea, though he can't sustain his dribble anywhere near as well.

Thanks! Hmm, seems to me he is one of the better PGs in the NBA...I need to see more of him to get an concrete and absolute observation of Calderon IMO...

[Harry Palmer]

-= original quote snipped =-



Thanks! Hmm, seems to me he is one of the better PGs in the NBA...I need to see more of him to get an concrete and absolute observation of Calderon IMO...

To me he's borderline top 10. It's close. It probably comes down to how much you feel this season counts against Hinrich's career, and given that this season represents less than 10% of his career, I probably go with Hinrich, and bump Twitch out, but it's still close with 'Dre.

I'd say this: if he stays this hot for the season, it's probably a yes. If he stays this hot and improves his defense, he might be a lock and bumping a few guys down the list. It's hard to know how much weight to give 30-odd games, but obviously when a guy's career is this new, you give it a lot more.

[KF10]

-= original quote snipped =-



To me he's borderline top 10. It's close. It probably comes down to how much you feel this season counts against Hinrich's career, and given that this season represents less than 10% of his career, I probably go with Hinrich, and bump Twitch out, but it's still close with 'Dre.

I'd say this: if he stays this hot for the season, it's probably a yes. If he stays this hot and improves his defense, he might be a lock and bumping a few guys down the list. It's hard to know how much weight to give 30-odd games, but obviously when a guy's career is this new, you give it a lot more.

Its just like, he doesnt really jumps out as a top 10 PG to me. His assists/TO ratio are excellent and as well as his impact on the one's team but it is really a top 10 PG material? Yeah, I really need to see him more...I could be wrong about him...

[dbodner]

Its just like, he doesnt really jumps out as a top 10 PG to me. His assists/TO ratio are excellent and as well as his impact on the one's team but it is really a top 10 PG material? Yeah, I really need to see him more...I could be wrong about him...

13/10 as a starter with a 6/1 assist to turnover ratio while shooting great percentages doesn't jump out at you?

To me, there are two legitimate things keeping calderon from being a lock:
1) Defense. It's pretty bad
2) It's only been 22 games.

but from his pg play, it's definitely top 10 material. I mean, I'm not sure what more you'd expect from a first time starter. He's not scoring 20 ppg, but everything else is phenomenal. 9.7 assists is very good, which becomes great when you look at his assist to turnover ratio (6.24/1). 13.4 ppg as a starter is good, and looks really good when he's shooting at 49% from the field, 39% from 3.

I disagree. I think his stats are really jumping out.

[I-AM-A-BEAST]

-= original quote snipped =-



You seriously believe that?

Of course Calderon would be better than them. It's just that I think they are in the same tier. Calderon is being somewhat benefited from playing in that uptempo offense, isn't he?

Absolutely incorrect. The Raptors are 27th in the league in pace and are actually one of the slowest teams in the league. So no, he would actually be negatively effected by the pace of his teams offense.

And you are badly misinformed if you think they belong in the same tier. Out of that group he's the most efficient scorer (by far), easily the best passer, takes care of the ball best, while generating assists the fastest (by far) and is the second best rebounder of the group behind Nelson. Defensively they all suck so that doesn't tip the scale in any way.

The point remains that he is much better than all of them. He's actually closer to the guys in tier 2 than he is to the guys in tier 4 (I personally think he's been better than everyone in tier 3 besides Ford).

Anyway, I'll give my rankings.

1st tier:
Nash
Kidd
Paul

2nd tier:
Deron
Iverson (if counted as PG)
Billups
Davis
Healthy Arenas
Tony Parker

3rd tier:
Heinrich when in a good situation
Healthy TJ (big if here)
Roy (if counted as PG)
Andre Miller
Bibby

4th tier:
Calderon - this is the least he can be at. I want to see him play until the end of the season, but if he can continue producing these numbers, he can be in the 3rd or even 2nd tier.
Mo Williams
Felton
Nelson
whoever

[b]Well then if you're waiting for him to produce for the whole season then your rankings make no sense. Roy isn't a PG and even if he was, his ranking is clearly based on his play this season. The same goes for Paul, as he clearly wasn't in tier one last season. I think you need to revisit your list.[/b]

[KF10]

Its just like, he doesnt really jumps out as a top 10 PG to me. His assists/TO ratio are excellent and as well as his impact on the one's team but it is really a top 10 PG material? Yeah, I really need to see him more...I could be wrong about him...

13/10 as a starter with a 6/1 assist to turnover ratio while shooting great percentages doesn't jump out at you?

To me, there are two legitimate things keeping calderon from being a lock:
1) Defense. It's pretty bad
2) It's only been 22 games.

but from his pg play, it's definitely top 10 material. I mean, I'm not sure what more you'd expect from a first time starter. He's not scoring 20 ppg, but everything else is phenomenal. 9.7 assists is very good, which becomes great when you look at his assist to turnover ratio (6.24/1). 13.4 ppg as a starter is good, and looks really good when he's shooting at 49% from the field, 39% from 3.

I disagree. I think his stats are really jumping out.

Whoa! His numbers are actually good as starter... Hmm, you are probably you guys are right, I might be underrating Calderon due to the hype (homerism) by Raps fans... All in all, he could be a top 10 PG if he could sustain this high level of play throughout the season IMO...

EDIT: Thanks again to dbodner and Harry Palmer for their observations....

[Harry Palmer]

The same goes for Paul, as he clearly wasn't in tier one last season. I think you need to revisit your list.

This I disagree with. Paul had an incredible rookie season, was injured but still excellent this year, and this year, back to full health, is picking up right where his rookie season suggested he would.

[I-AM-A-BEAST]

-= original quote snipped =-



This I disagree with. Paul had an incredible rookie season, was injured but still excellent this year, and this year, back to full health, is picking up right where his rookie season suggested he would.

So are you suggesting he was on tier one last season based on his play(which I would disagree with) or that injuries kept him from obtaining that level of play (which I would consider a subjective notion)?

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. Could you clarify please?

[snapcracklepape]

G.O.A.T

[risktaker91]

I think he's in the top 10 or right on the border. I'd much rather have Calderon than Andre Miller and Mike Bibby. Also remember that the Raptors have the 4th seed in the East led by Bosh and Calderon. Almost 14/10 as a starter is incredible.