James/Bynum vs. Howard/Anthony

[ClubLakers KB8]

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and bynum doesn't rely on his athletic ability? when he is second in the league in dunks i believe. howard is first but he also attempts 5 more shots than bynum does and its more remarkable he does this seeing double teams and tripple teams even without the ball. and gets intentionally fouled all the time too.

Not that often really.

He is an incredibly fundamental player. Old school feel to him.

[TooNice00]

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Isn't that against the rules? I hope you don't get banned, though I hope the mods allow me to do the same.

Or I'll just be safe and say, "right back at ya"

first of all i am not gonna get banned or suspended. and who the hell cares anyway its realgm? and if i wanted to be on here that bad i can just make a new account anyway.

[corona]

Oh and for the thread, I also pick Lebron/Bynum but only because Lebron is better than both Howard and Melo put together.

nearly as comical as saying the only difference between howard & bynum is minutes.

you do realize carmelo's averaging 26/7/4, on a team that's 22-13, right?
and howard's averaging 20/15 (hasn't been done since moses malone) on a team that's nearly as good.

simplistic argument, yes.
but its totally ridiculous to think one player is better than two of the top ~12 players in the nba combined.

[TooNice00]

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Not that often really.

He is an incredibly fundamental player. Old school feel to him.

yeah ok bynum is more fundamentally sound and has better low post moves. sounds like the same crap people said when they tried to make al jefferson better than howard.

[ClubLakers KB8]

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yeah ok bynum is more fundamentally sound and has better low post moves. sounds like the same crap people said when they tried to make al jefferson better than howard.

People said, not me. Jefferson is a skinny ZBo type player who can block a shot a game.

Whatever man. I've been nothing but respectful and it seems like people can't have a conversation without calling them idiots or putting them in a group of fans.

[TooNice00]

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People said, not me. Jefferson is a skinny ZBo type player who can block a shot a game.

Whatever man. I've been nothing but respectful and it seems like people can't have a conversation without calling them idiots or putting them in a group of fans.

you can just change that people to "toonice00". really whats the point of having a conversation based on your gut feeling that bynum, who averages 13/10, is gonna dominate the league one day. there is nothing intelligent about your post. its like me saying dwight howard is gonna be the best center to ever play the game. there is nothing intelligent about that either. i mean is there a point to be conversated about other than people to probably laugh about it or ridicule you.

[a-rod]

double post

[Lakers05]

Oh and for the thread, I also pick Lebron/Bynum but only because Lebron is better than both Howard and Melo put together.

nearly as comical as saying the only difference between howard & bynum is minutes.

you do realize carmelo's averaging 26/7/4, on a team that's 22-13, right?
and howard's averaging 20/15 (hasn't been done since moses malone) on a team that's nearly as good.

simplistic argument, yes.
but its totally ridiculous to think one player is better than two of the top ~12 players in the nba combined.

22 and 13 may be their record, but since we're talking about statistical difference, i.e, not taking into account "clutch" or "luck"(the Nuggets have won several close games this season, we haven't), point differential is a much better indicator of impact. There's a 4+ point differential between the Nuggets and Lakers. Let's assume for a moment that the difference between Kobe and Iverson is slightly greater than the difference between Camby and Odom, where does the rest of that differential come from, the bench? Even if we assumed that the bench makes up the rest of that differential, then that still means Carmelo = Bynum, just like what their EFF indicates. So you can see that 25, 7 and 4 doesn't look as imposing to 13 and 10 as you'd think.

In fact, watch some Nuggets games carefully and you'll see that often times, Camby is their best player, so you can't just simply brush off his stats as 9 and 14 is much more inferior than 25, 7 and 4. Due to the fact that their specialty is scoring, a guard's stats will always look inflated, but fortunately, EFF recognizes this, by subtracting 1 FGA for every 2 points scored.

[Lakers05]

If Bynum didn't have a Kobe/Lebron type player on his team, he would attract most of the attention. He'd easily suck. I'm sorry. I like Bynum and he's good...BUT HE IS DOING THIS IN SINGLE COVERAGE. Kobe, Fisher and Odom pretty much do the dirty work to get bynum his points. He has nice footwork, but I mean...whatever.

What I'm getting at is that I'd trade Bynum for Dwight today and guarantee LA would win the championship for the next three years. I'd call Otis with that offer and he'd hang the phone up and never speak to me again.

Kobe + Howard would easily be the best duo in the league.

Oh and for the thread, I also pick Lebron/Bynum but only because Lebron is better than both Howard and Melo put together.

This notion of this guy needs that guy to succeed is the most faulty assumption that ever existed. Let me give you an extreme example. Steve Nash supposedly makes his teammates better, yet guess what Amare's numbers are without him.

Most teams will score at least 90 points without a Kobe Bryant, a Steve Nash. Nash's passes don't go to Amare every time, and Kobe's passes rarely go to Bynum. Without Nash on the team, they'll just run different sets, and his touches and points get redistributed(minus the points the team would score less without him of course).

[corona]

22 and 13 may be their record, but since we're talking about statistical difference, i.e, not taking into account "clutch" or "luck"(the Nuggets have won several close games this season, we haven't), point differential is a much better indicator of impact. There's a 4+ point differential between the Nuggets and Lakers. Let's assume for a moment that the difference between Kobe and Iverson is slightly greater than the difference between Camby and Odom, where does the rest of that differential come from, the bench? Even if we assumed that the bench makes up the rest of that differential, then that still means Carmelo = Bynum, just like what their EFF indicates. So you can see that 25, 7 and 4 doesn't look as imposing to 13 and 10 as you'd think.

your reasoning is so out to lunch i don't even know where to begin a response.

heck...i don't even know what you're trying to argue because its so out there and all over the place...

bynum = carmelo because camby + iverson = kobe + odom, and the teams have similar records? is that what you're trying to say?
or that camby is better than carmelo?
or that your nba.com efficiency rating has any legitimacy?

i'm not sure.

i was simply pointing out that there's no possible way lebron's talent overcomes that of 2 of the top 12 players in the nba (carmelo & howard).

[Lakers05]

I'm saying that based on their current stats, Carmelo and Bynum have equal impact.

I've watched Kobe for years and I can tell that his impact is less than his stats suggest. So then I realized, there's a reason why bigs are more important than smalls. This is why a big that can average close to 30 PPG will always be the undisputed best player in the league.

Quite frankly, the only way to prove this is to put each of them on a team with no other starters and assume that they don't average any more than they are now(if we assumed that they can, then Bynum clearly has the advantage as he can play a lot more minutes.) I'm guessing they'll probably win the same number of games, which is 7 games each.

[Teddy KGB]

I can't believe Bynum has become so ridiculously overrated. Bynum is not a top 40 player in this league and yet you think he is as good as Melo? geez

I take Melo/Howard in a heartbeat. The gap between Melo and LeBron isn't nearly as much as the gap between Howard and Bynum

[corona]

I'm saying that based on their current stats, Carmelo and Bynum have equal impact.

so now the question becomes...

if bynum's impact is equal to that of howards, and equal to that of melo's (both top ~12 players)...as well as equal to that of duncan/paul/garnett/stoudemire/nash/wade...etc (because his EFF rating is right there with them)...and he plays alongside kobe who's an undisputed top 3 player in the nba, with the best coach in the nba, with a great supporting cast (3rd option is odom, very good veteran point guard, smart player in walton, energy guy in turiaf....etc)

why aren't they on pace to win at least 63 games? 24-11 is underachieving like crazy for a big man that good with the healthy talent and shooting he has around him.

[j-ragg]

When did Bynum become the new GOAT?

Jesus people, he's a young player showing flashes. Relax.

[TooNice00]

bynums impact isn't even close to howards or melos. bynum scores 13 freakin points. he is ranked 75th in the league in scoring and you try to claim he is on howard and melos level. this is a joke. really people like chris wilcox score more ppg than bynum.

[BrooklynBulls]

This is obscene. Absolutely ridiculous. You take either Duo, but you take them b/c you pick the player who you think is the best: Me, I think LeBron is a potential GOAT, while Howard is just a potential HOF. This is my opinion, based on absolutely no analysis other than watching both play, and a general gut feeling.

But to even SUGGEST that Bynum, a 3rd/2nd option on a good team, with Kobe Bryant being the 1st, even approaches Howard's production OR impact...is blind idiocy.

Bynum plays 10 less minutes than Howard b/c he's a foul machine. And he gets TIRED. Howard is not human, and therefore does not have this problem. The reason Bynum is able to post ridiculous efficiency is on the back of Kobe, while Howard does so with one quasi-star in Rashard, and a group of roleplayers. Hedo Turkoglu is the 2nd best player on that team, for god's sake.

Dwight is having an MVP-worthy season. Bynum is having a "nice" season. PLEASE do not confuse future potential with current production. COULD Bynum become as good as Dwight is? Maybe. There's a small, but big enough to be important chance. IS DWIGHT NOT GOING TO GET ANY BETTER? There is a small, but important chance that he might not. Do you see the difference?

One day, Bynum might be like 07-08 Howard, but Howard could be like 09-10 Howard, the 30 point, 15 rebound freak who finally fixed his FT stroke.

[Patterns]

bynums impact isn't even close to howards or melos. bynum scores 13 freakin points. he is ranked 75th in the league in scoring and you try to claim he is on howard and melos level. this is a joke. really people like chris wilcox score more ppg than bynum.

PPG determines how good of a player is.

Btw, when was the last time someone scored 13ppg on 63% shooting?

[TooNice00]

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PPG determines how good of a player is.

Btw, when was the last time someone scored 13ppg on 63% shooting?

ppg does matter when you are only scoring 13 a game and trying to compare him with melo one of the best scorers in the nba and howard one of most efficient offensive players in the league. even more efficient then your boy bynum when you factor in free throws. you can argue the defense against carmelo, which still doesn't make up for the offensive difference. but you can't argue anything against howard he is just better than bynum at pretty much everything.

[Patterns]

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ppg does matter when you are only scoring 13 a game and trying to compare him with melo one of the best scorers in the nba and howard one of most efficient offensive players in the league. even more efficient then your boy bynum when you factor in free throws. you can argue the defense against carmelo, which still doesn't make up for the offensive difference. but you can't argue anything against howard he is just better than bynum at pretty much everything.

Chill out dude. No one said Bynum is better than Howard. I probably know how you feel because your boy Howard is being compared to someone else and not everyone is on Howard's side.

13ppg doesn't determine how good a player is. The overall stats does. Bynum's efficiency is 21.9, higher than Anthony's 21.7 while playing less minutes.

I'd say Bynum is at least comparable to Anthony right now and Lebron > Dwight. I am sorry.

[CousinOfDeath]

If Howard and Bynum switched places then the Magic would be the worst team in the league and the Lakers would be the best team in the league.