Prime Wilt vs Prime Shaq

[DraftBoy10]

Shaq.

Plain and simple.

A primetime Shaq is the most dominant player in the game. Forget just individual accolades, this guy made the league change it's rules, adopt a new late-game philosophy, and was simply the biggest and nastiest player inside.

[DaRkJaWs42]

Actually it's funny, Wilt himself told people the same thing...he said "I defy anyone to say they've seen someone take change off the backboard. Other than Jackie Jackson, I haven't heard of anyone take change off of the backboard other than myself."...or something to that effect(Jackie jackson was a famous school yard leaper in Harlem).

Anyway, here is just one quote from Wilt's biography not only that but just a few tidbits about his strength. First, page 150 of the 2004 biography by Robert Cherry:
Quote by Haskell Cohen, NBA publicity director:
"One day up here at Kutchers, I had a flat tire and no jack to change the tire. Wilt was only 17 then, but he started to lift the back of my car off the ground with his bare hands when I stopped him. I was afraid he would give himself a hernia."
Page 158, quote from fellow 76er Gerry Ward
"Very Seldom did Wilt, Billy, or I go out because people bothered Wilt, always asking for autographs. But one night, after a home game, we're walking in Center City Philadelphia. It's about 11:00 Pm. We're playing "Can you match me?" We're doing stupid things, like three young single guys. We finally come to a pole, and it's Wilt's turn. He wraps his arms around the pole and lifts himself up and places his body at a 45 degree angle to the pole. He holds himself vertically for about a minute, then he comes down. Billy and I try it. We throw our legs up and come right down. There's no way we can do it for one second."
Page 158, Al Domenico(a comment about his hands)
"There is no perspective with this man until you stood next to him. He was literally a giant. The big guys in the league looked small next to Wilt. If someone were going to make a sculpture of the human body, they would use Wilt's body to make it. Someone bet Wilt he couldn't bowl a game without using the holes in the bowling ball. He did it, I saw it. Then he picked up two bowling balls and palmed them[held them with his hands on top and without putting his fingers in the holes]. One of the 76ers bet Wilt $5 he couldn't put a quarter on top of the backboard. He jumped up, put it there, and came back down. Went up and got it. And gave the quarter to the guy. I saw it."

So there you go, just one of the many instances he went up and made change.

Here is one more story related to the Gus Johnson block, since it's on the next page, also a quote from Al Domenico,

"I'll never forget the incident with Gus Johnson. Gus Johnson was a monster. You didn't mess around with him. He was a bad dude. Wilt was down at our end of the basket, which was really unusually because Wilt never basket-hung. He always came up with the team. He had gotten the rebound and made the outlet pass. We were on a fast break, and Gus intercepted the pass.
Eight guys were on one side of the court. Wilt and Gus were on the other. And Gus comes down the right side and is dribbling, and Wilt is coming from the left side. And Wilt's liek a step ahead of him, and Gus takes off near the free throw line for one of those Michael Jordan-like, one-handed, windmill dunks. He's way above the rim. And Wilt's hand went right up--and the ball and Gus' arm hit Wilt right dead in the palm. And boom--that's as far as the ball got.
You'd figure that Wilt's hand would have been pushed back. But it wasn't; it stood up like a pole. His arm didn't move, you could see it. Gus' shoulder popped right out. The force of Gus going into Wilt's hand dislocated Gus' shoulder. Gus just bent down and grabbed his shoulder, sat on the bench. And the next thing you know he was in the hospital. That was the most impressive thing I ever saw on a basketball court."

There is a GOAT quote that beats all of these(there are other quotes as well), but I don't remember where in the book I had read it. Basically, someone had shot a 15-20 foot jump shot, and in the middle of it's route to the basket, Wilt had jumped so high and grabbed it. The referee then called GOALTENDING! When Wilt's coach asked how the **** that was goaltending, the referee told him "you and I both know that what we just saw was not possible". I'll get the quote for you later if I care to look, it's almost a 400 page biography.

One thing I want to randomly throw out there is that there were a couple of times where a guy that was taking stats for I think it was the Celtics recorded a couple of different occasions where Wilt had 25 blocks in one game.

[DaRkJaWs42]

Shaq.

Plain and simple.

A primetime Shaq is the most dominant player in the game. Forget just individual accolades, this guy made the league change it's rules, adopt a new late-game philosophy, and was simply the biggest and nastiest player inside.

Any time I hear a story of Shaq over Wilt and then I hear someone using the argument that Shaq changed the rules, I can't help but laugh. It's obvious then to me that the guy has no idea what he's talking about.

Oh and yeah Draftboy10, since you don't know what you're talking about, Wilt had 20-30 things changed because of him. Shaq had what, maybe 1 or 2 things? Rofl?

[Warspite]

IMHO

If you want versitility and adaptation you go with Wilt
If you want a super one trick poney you go with Shaq
If you want defense you go with Wilt
If you want EFF you go with Shaq
If you value a rebounding you go with Wilt
If you value killer instinct you go with Shaq
If you value a mid range game you go with Wilt

Silver Bullet is correct in
1. Wilt is over hyped
2. Shaq was a awsome player

IMHO when you compare Wilt, Shaq, KAJ, Hakeem its realy a any given day type of thing.

[DaRkJaWs42]

IMHO

If you want versitility and adaptation you go with Wilt
If you want a super one trick poney you go with Shaq
If you want defense you go with Wilt
If you want EFF you go with Shaq
If you value a rebounding you go with Wilt
If you value killer instinct you go with Shaq
If you value a mid range game you go with Wilt

Silver Bullet is correct in
1. Wilt is over hyped
2. Shaq was a awsome

IMHO when you compare Wilt, Shaq, KAJ, Hakeem its realy a any given day type of thing.

So basically, you might still go with Shaq even though Wilt is the better passer, Shot blocker, defender in general, rebounder, and offensive player. Gotchya.

Ok but seriously, I see your point about the one trick pony. But what you don't realize is that still requires you have a good team. Shaq had a good team. Who knows how badly shaq would have done without a good team. Is that understandable? I'm not saying he isn't and wasn't dominate, one of the best ever, but you have to go with someone who could actually do more.

[Shaqsquatch]

IMHO

If you want versitility and adaptation you go with Wilt
If you want a super one trick poney you go with Shaq
If you want defense you go with Wilt
If you want EFF you go with Shaq
If you value a rebounding you go with Wilt
If you value killer instinct you go with Shaq
If you value a mid range game you go with Wilt

Silver Bullet is correct in
1. Wilt is over hyped
2. Shaq was a awsome player


IMHO when you compare Wilt, Shaq, KAJ, Hakeem its realy a any given day type of thing.

Shaq was a one trick pony? He had more effective post moves than both Wilt and Hakeem. Besides, theres an old saying that states...if I could teach a 500 pound gorilla to run straight down the middle of a football field and carry a football while doing it my team would win every superbowl. Dont hate the Shaq dunk. It was unstoppable.

[DaRkJaWs42]

Lol more post moves than the two players that had the best post moves in the game? That is the funniest thing I have ever read. Wilt had his dunk, he had a finger roll, he had a fadeaway, etc etc. Hakeem had a dream shake. Shaq had ugly post moves that went in only becuase he was always close to the basket, and his most effective post move was his dunk. So please dude, spare me.

[ronnymac2]

IMHO

If you want versitility and adaptation you go with Wilt
If you want a super one trick poney you go with Shaq
If you want defense you go with Wilt
If you want EFF you go with Shaq
If you value a rebounding you go with Wilt
If you value killer instinct you go with Shaq
If you value a mid range game you go with Wilt

Silver Bullet is correct in
1. Wilt is over hyped
2. Shaq was a awsome player

IMHO when you compare Wilt, Shaq, KAJ, Hakeem its realy a any given day type of thing.

I most definitely agree with this.

[Silver Bullet]

IMHO

If you want versitility and adaptation you go with Wilt
If you want a super one trick poney you go with Shaq
If you want defense you go with Wilt
If you want EFF you go with Shaq
If you value a rebounding you go with Wilt
If you value killer instinct you go with Shaq
If you value a mid range game you go with Wilt

Silver Bullet is correct in
1. Wilt is over hyped
2. Shaq was a awsome

IMHO when you compare Wilt, Shaq, KAJ, Hakeem its realy a any given day type of thing.

So basically, you might still go with Shaq even though Wilt is the better passer, Shot blocker, defender in general, rebounder, and offensive player. Gotchya.

Ok but seriously, I see your point about the one trick pony. But what you don't realize is that still requires you have a good team. Shaq had a good team. Who knows how badly shaq would have done without a good team. Is that understandable? I'm not saying he isn't and wasn't dominate, one of the best ever, but you have to go with someone who could actually do more.

I have a feeling you're not even old enough to have seen Shaq in his prime.

[NO-KG-AI]

Again, I'm so sick of hearing "who has the most post moves" or "who has more diverse post game."

Results are what matters. Kevin Garnett has a wider ranger of post moves than Shaq, and flawless footwork. Who gives a ****? Shaq's scoring crushes Garnett's.

[Frosty]

Again, I'm so sick of hearing "who has the most post moves" or "who has more diverse post game."

Results are what matters. Kevin Garnett has a wider ranger of post moves than Shaq, and flawless footwork. Who gives a ****? Shaq's scoring crushes Garnett's.

I agree with this. It's like saying Player a has better form on his 3 but Player B makes it at a higher percentage. I don't give a F what you look like scoring if you can put it in the hoop reliably.

Now when it comes to Shaq, I seriously think the league did him a disservice early on because they were so desperate to find a new superstar to market. They let him get away with a lot of offensive fouls that never forced him to truly work on his game. Anyone suggesting Shaq had a better post repertoire then Hakeem must have grown up on youtube highlights.

[Prop]

Again, I'm so sick of hearing "who has the most post moves" or "who has more diverse post game."

Results are what matters. Kevin Garnett has a wider ranger of post moves than Shaq, and flawless footwork. Who gives a ****? Shaq's scoring crushes Garnett's.

I agree with this. It's like saying Player a has better form on his 3 but Player B makes it at a higher percentage. I don't give a F what you look like scoring if you can put it in the hoop reliably.

Now when it comes to Shaq, I seriously think the league did him a disservice early on because they were so desperate to find a new superstar to market. They let him get away with a lot of offensive fouls that never forced him to truly work on his game. Anyone suggesting Shaq had a better post repertoire then Hakeem must have grown up on youtube highlights.

please. shaq's supposed lack of a post game had nothing to do with the league trying to push him. first of all, he has/had a good post game and 2nd, he didn't have to develop a jump shot or whatever else people try to discredit him with because he simply didn't need to.

just because his game isn't as aesthetically pleasing or as versatile as others doesn't mean it's worse.

[cmw17]

are you kidding me? biggest no-brainer ever. Wilt would make Shaq his b itch

[Durantula35]

and his most effective post move was his dunk.

...which was pretty much unstoppable. He didn't need any other post moves.

[TrueLAfan]

I agree with comments about "post moves." If you got someone who knows what to do against the move, then a one trick pony is in trouble. But Shaq is more like Nolan Ryan was. There were games when Nolan didn't have the curve going, and all he did was throw heat. Everyone knew it. Didn't mean a damn thing. Shaq's power game is immensely tough...if he gets the ball within 6 feet of the basket, good luck stopping him. Kind of like the complaints about Dwight Howard's small offensive arsenal. Everyone knows he doesn't have range, so they know what's coming. So all he can do is shoot 59 percent and draw so many fouls that he scores close to 21 points a game on about twelve and half shot attempts. Poor bastard.

[Harison]

and his most effective post move was his dunk.

...which was pretty much unstoppable. He didn't need any other post moves.

To quote Rodman: Shaq has two moves - dunk with one hand or dunk with two hands

I personally prefer players with finesse and versatile offense over brute force approach (like Kobe vs Lebron), nonetheless I have no problem respecting players for the results, thats why Lebron is hands down the best player atm, even though I like 20+ players style more than his. Same with Shaq - he was a true beast (and still is to some extent), yet Wilts numbers werent any worse back in the days, PLUS he wasnt so limited (although range is deadly for them both )

[NO-KG-AI]

Also, all the people bitching about Shaq getting away with offensive fouls should also bitch about the amount of hacks that are never called because he was just too strong and powered through it, or the incessant amount of flopping he faced.

[ronnymac2]

Vlade, that little queen.........

[LoboGuerrero]

Page 158, quote from fellow 76er Gerry Ward
"Very Seldom did Wilt, Billy, or I go out because people bothered Wilt, always asking for autographs. But one night, after a home game, we're walking in Center City Philadelphia. It's about 11:00 Pm. We're playing "Can you match me?" We're doing stupid things, like three young single guys. We finally come to a pole, and it's Wilt's turn. He wraps his arms around the pole and lifts himself up and places his body at a 45 degree angle to the pole. He holds himself vertically for about a minute, then he comes down. Billy and I try it. We throw our legs up and come right down. There's no way we can do it for one second."

That really isn't that difficult. I mean, a minute is outstanding, but I can hold myself at a 45 degree angle like that for a good 10 seconds.

[Lakers05]

The Lakers Shaq may have a variety of moves, but one of his moves is a clear travel. Last time I checked, you cannot dribble, pick up the ball, jump to the middle, stop and then shoot. That's a clear travel and gives the offensive player a huge unfair advantage and should be called.

Quite frankly, the Lakers Shaq was the biggest disgrace to the game that I've ever seen. The Orlando Shaq at least tried to beat you with his athleticism. The Lakers Shaq, on the other hand, was too fat and out of shape that he had to find cheap ways to score, to remain a "superstar."