The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1)

[RSCD3_]

Looks like he busted out of his little slump there lol

[JulesWinnfield]

He has 87 threes this year. Paul George is in 2nd in 3's made with 46

Created some separation again on Westbrook for the PER lead. Entering play last night Westbrook had closed to within 0.3 of him. Now the lead is 2.9 (34.5 to 31.6). Of course 34.5 would slay the PER record

[tsherkin]

He just went 9/16 from 3 in a game and no one even batted an eye... because he's had 5 other games with 6+ MADE threes so far this season, and three of them were 8 3PM. That means in over a third of his games-played to date this season, he's hit at least 6 threes, and in just shy of a quarter, he's hit 8 or 9. It's the 5th time in that same stretch that he's scored 40+.

[Mutnt]

He just went 9/16 from 3 in a game and no one even batted an eye... because he's had 5 other games with 6+ MADE threes so far this season, and three of them were 8 3PM. That means in over a third of his games-played to date this season, he's hit at least 6 threes, and in just shy of a quarter, he's hit 8 or 9. It's the 5th time in that same stretch that he's scored 40+.

Don't I remember you arguing once in the past that Curry shouldn't be shooting like north of 8 threes per game? Something something, bad offensive plan, not sustainable etc.

My... this is awkward.

[tsherkin]

Don't I remember you arguing once in the past that Curry shouldn't be shooting like north of 8 threes per game? Something something, bad offensive plan, not sustainable etc.

My... this is awkward.

It's not awkward at all, that's just your attempt to bait, lol.

Steph is breaking the league right now; he's doing stuff that challenges basic preconceptions about how the game can be played with a level of ability that is FAR afield from basically anyone else. There is still a level of issue with shooting that many shots from that distance, of course, because the consistency of the shot isn't the same as 2pt shots... but at this point, he's working on his 4th season of shooting 44%+ on 6+ 3PA/g. You're talking 3.5 - 4% below Kobe's career average from 2, and as you create THAT situation, it becomes ridiculous. It remains troublesome on nights when he's off, but he's been shooting so well BELOW the arc that even when he's off from three, the balance has him shooting in the low to mid 40s from the field overall ANYWAY. That's the area where I expect Steph to slide some this year, because he's shooting a shade over 60% below the arc on 9.5 2PA/g, but I mean, he's gross-tactular, and pulling some magic before our eyes.

Right now, on the season, he's shooting 11.6 3PA/g. If he finishes the season taking 10+ 3s per game at that percentage, he will have established an approach to the game that is almost entirely unguardable, and inimitable to his ability. That's just... I mean, we're watching history, right here. League history developing before our eyes, it's magical.

[G35]

He just went 9/16 from 3 in a game and no one even batted an eye... because he's had 5 other games with 6+ MADE threes so far this season, and three of them were 8 3PM. That means in over a third of his games-played to date this season, he's hit at least 6 threes, and in just shy of a quarter, he's hit 8 or 9. It's the 5th time in that same stretch that he's scored 40+.

Don't I remember you arguing once in the past that Curry shouldn't be shooting like north of 8 threes per game? Something something, bad offensive plan, not sustainable etc.

My... this is awkward.

I don't know if tsherkin said that or not but no one, absolutely no one could predict Curry playing like this. Nor the Warriors, they are breaking new ground here and forcing even the old school to change how they analyze 3pt shooting. The one difference is no one else has a Curry. It's like making these rules for Wilt, Kareem, Shaq when they were at their peaks to keep them from running over the league.

Curry has taken an aspect of the game and "Tecmo Bowl'd" it, teams can't contain Curry even when they know it is coming. It's like trying to tackle Christian Okoye....you just can't stop it......

[Johnny Firpo]

He just went 9/16 from 3 in a game and no one even batted an eye... because he's had 5 other games with 6+ MADE threes so far this season, and three of them were 8 3PM. That means in over a third of his games-played to date this season, he's hit at least 6 threes, and in just shy of a quarter, he's hit 8 or 9. It's the 5th time in that same stretch that he's scored 40+.

It's amazing that he hasn't beat the one game record yet. Surely a matter of time, all they need is a close game where he gets hot like that.

[tsherkin]

It's amazing that he hasn't beat the one game record yet. Surely a matter of time, all they need is a close game where he gets hot like that.

It'll happen this season, I suspect.

[Dr Spaceman]

I don't know if tsherkin said that or not but no one, absolutely no one could predict Curry playing like this. Nor the Warriors, they are breaking new ground here and forcing even the old school to change how they analyze 3pt shooting. The one difference is no one else has a Curry. It's like making these rules for Wilt, Kareem, Shaq when they were at their peaks to keep them from running over the league.

Curry has taken an aspect of the game and "Tecmo Bowl'd" it, teams can't contain Curry even when they know it is coming. It's like trying to tackle Christian Okoye....you just can't stop it......

No, you're completely wrong about this. Specifically with Curry, there were discussions all season and especially after the Finals about his all-time standing as an offensive player. There were comments made by myself, The-Power, Doctor MJ to name a few along the lines of "Curry has no ceiling in the present NBA." Hell, in the peaks project there were a couple of us who began voting for Curry around #6 or so, with the clear implication that he was on the Jordan/Bird/Magic level as an offensive player but not as impactful on defense as Jordan. The discussions of Curry as a Shaq-like offensive force last season. Just lat year I took a lot of heat for saying Curry was better than Durant had been at any point. Not doing this to beat my chest as I honestly don't care, but it's important to point this out for posterity's sake.

All due respect to Curry who's definitely improved his game, but the biggest difference between this year and last is that he's shooting more. Speaks to the priorities of the basketball fan at large IMO, which is a shame.

[Johnny Firpo]

It'll happen this season, I suspect.

Yeah, he could have come close yesterday but the game was out of reach for the Suns. We really do watch history in the making.

[G35]

I don't know if tsherkin said that or not but no one, absolutely no one could predict Curry playing like this. Nor the Warriors, they are breaking new ground here and forcing even the old school to change how they analyze 3pt shooting. The one difference is no one else has a Curry. It's like making these rules for Wilt, Kareem, Shaq when they were at their peaks to keep them from running over the league.

Curry has taken an aspect of the game and "Tecmo Bowl'd" it, teams can't contain Curry even when they know it is coming. It's like trying to tackle Christian Okoye....you just can't stop it......

No, you're completely wrong about this. Specifically with Curry, there were discussions all season and especially after the Finals about his all-time standing as an offensive player. There were comments made by myself, The-Power, Doctor MJ to name a few along the lines of "Curry has no ceiling in the present NBA." Hell, in the peaks project there were a couple of us who began voting for Curry around #6 or so, with the clear implication that he was on the Jordan/Bird/Magic level as an offensive player but not as impactful on defense as Jordan. The discussions of Curry as a Shaq-like offensive force last season. Just lat year I took a lot of heat for saying Curry was better than Durant had been at any point. Not doing this to beat my chest as I honestly don't care, but it's important to point this out for posterity's sake.

All due respect to Curry who's definitely improved his game, but the biggest difference between this year and last is that he's shooting more. Speaks to the priorities of the basketball fan at large IMO, which is a shame.

Dr. Spaceman, I am referring more to Mutnt post about Curry should (should not) be shooting more than 8 3PA's per game.

I think we are all well aware from last year, Curry was on the short list (at least top 5 all time offensively), from his play in the previous year. This year he is playing at an unprecedented rate. I responded to Mutnt because I thought it was unfair for Mutnt to call someone out on something as unprecedented as shooting more than eight 3PA per game.

If you feel the need to (not beat your chest) point out how "right" you were about Curry, that's fine. I think Curry is playing unbelievable as well. If you feel you are not getting your "due" credit for pointing out Curry's proper ranking that's your right but I'm not making that point.

I'm referring to the point about the amount of 3PA's Curry is taking....not his overall impact, or ranking in history.....

[makaveli_99]

I don't know if tsherkin said that or not but no one, absolutely no one could predict Curry playing like this. Nor the Warriors, they are breaking new ground here and forcing even the old school to change how they analyze 3pt shooting. The one difference is no one else has a Curry. It's like making these rules for Wilt, Kareem, Shaq when they were at their peaks to keep them from running over the league.

Curry has taken an aspect of the game and "Tecmo Bowl'd" it, teams can't contain Curry even when they know it is coming. It's like trying to tackle Christian Okoye....you just can't stop it......

No, you're completely wrong about this. Specifically with Curry, there were discussions all season and especially after the Finals about his all-time standing as an offensive player. There were comments made by myself, The-Power, Doctor MJ to name a few along the lines of "Curry has no ceiling in the present NBA." Hell, in the peaks project there were a couple of us who began voting for Curry around #6 or so, with the clear implication that he was on the Jordan/Bird/Magic level as an offensive player but not as impactful on defense as Jordan. The discussions of Curry as a Shaq-like offensive force last season. Just lat year I took a lot of heat for saying Curry was better than Durant had been at any point. Not doing this to beat my chest as I honestly don't care, but it's important to point this out for posterity's sake.

All due respect to Curry who's definitely improved his game, but the biggest difference between this year and last is that he's shooting more. Speaks to the priorities of the basketball fan at large IMO, which is a shame.

im sorry, but not you, or no one, thought curry would be playing like this... we all saw last year, and knew he was amazing, but what he is doing right now would be considered the best offensive season ever.

if you're talking about curry being a great offensive player, and on KD level, yeah sure, there were tons who saw that potential after his season last year.

[makaveli_99]

He just went 9/16 from 3 in a game and no one even batted an eye... because he's had 5 other games with 6+ MADE threes so far this season, and three of them were 8 3PM. That means in over a third of his games-played to date this season, he's hit at least 6 threes, and in just shy of a quarter, he's hit 8 or 9. It's the 5th time in that same stretch that he's scored 40+.

Don't I remember you arguing once in the past that Curry shouldn't be shooting like north of 8 threes per game? Something something, bad offensive plan, not sustainable etc.

My... this is awkward.

I don't know if tsherkin said that or not but no one, absolutely no one could predict Curry playing like this. Nor the Warriors, they are breaking new ground here and forcing even the old school to change how they analyze 3pt shooting. The one difference is no one else has a Curry. It's like making these rules for Wilt, Kareem, Shaq when they were at their peaks to keep them from running over the league.

Curry has taken an aspect of the game and "Tecmo Bowl'd" it, teams can't contain Curry even when they know it is coming. It's like trying to tackle Christian Okoye....you just can't stop it......

yeah, its been a wonderful surprise... curry has taken the world by storm. Everyone was talking about AD the next great, and breaking the PER record... oh how the tables have turned.

[Jaivl]

Well, to be fair in this September 16 post he says that

"I think Curry peaked higher than Magic and Bird"

[G35]

Don't I remember you arguing once in the past that Curry shouldn't be shooting like north of 8 threes per game? Something something, bad offensive plan, not sustainable etc.

My... this is awkward.

I don't know if tsherkin said that or not but no one, absolutely no one could predict Curry playing like this. Nor the Warriors, they are breaking new ground here and forcing even the old school to change how they analyze 3pt shooting. The one difference is no one else has a Curry. It's like making these rules for Wilt, Kareem, Shaq when they were at their peaks to keep them from running over the league.

Curry has taken an aspect of the game and "Tecmo Bowl'd" it, teams can't contain Curry even when they know it is coming. It's like trying to tackle Christian Okoye....you just can't stop it......

yeah, its been a wonderful surprise... curry has taken the world by storm. Everyone was talking about AD the next great, and breaking the PER record... oh how the tables have turned.

Yeah Davis is definitely trending down with all the injuries he's had this year and the Pelicans are just looking overall and it's dragging AD down with them.

Curry on the other hand is trending up and the Warriors are going up right with him....its funny how when your best player plays well the team plays well and when your best player is not playing well....well the team goes in the same direction.....

[G35]

Well, to be fair in this September 16 post he says that

"I think Curry peaked higher than Magic and Bird"

Yes, but Curry right after the finals is a step below this Curry....clearly.

If anyone would have said Curry is going to lead the league by a significant margin in all offensive categories, while leading his team to an undefeated record after 17 games then you can pound your chest.

Show me that post......

[Dr Spaceman]

Well, to be fair in this September 16 post he says that

"I think Curry peaked higher than Magic and Bird"

Yes, but Curry right after the finals is a step below this Curry....clearly.

If anyone would have said Curry is going to lead the league by a significant margin in all offensive categories, while leading his team to an undefeated record after 17 games then you can pound your chest.

Show me that post......

Here's the thing, and I don't want to take this too far because I have enormous respect to the work Curry put in this offseason and he's made substantial improvements to his game, but: Curry isn't actually performing at a level a "step above" his previous self right now. His AST/TOV ratio is worse, his 3P% is the same out to 1 decimal place, he's taking for the most part the same shots last year. The big difference with him right now is he's hitting at a dramatically improved rate below the arc and he's shooting about 5 times more per game. It's very respectable that he's finishing so well at the rim now (a previous weakness) and particularly he's developed a killer floater so his 3-10 fg% has skyrocketed. But his actual 3 point shooting (what makes him special) has not actually improved besides him doing it more often.

So yeah there's really no reason to watch this year's Curry and say "I'm blown away with the stuff he's doing this year", because people who had an accurate grasp on him last year aren't blown away by this. If you specifically said "Curry would be a much better player if he attempted 5 more shots per game", then kudos to you, but to think he's reached a totally new level of play isn't quite accurate and speaks to a propensity to put waaaaaaaaaaay too much faith in volume scoring numbers and their derived metrics.

[Doctor MJ]

Don't I remember you arguing once in the past that Curry shouldn't be shooting like north of 8 threes per game? Something something, bad offensive plan, not sustainable etc.

My... this is awkward.

It's not awkward at all, that's just your attempt to bait, lol.

Steph is breaking the league right now; he's doing stuff that challenges basic preconceptions about how the game can be played with a level of ability that is FAR afield from basically anyone else. There is still a level of issue with shooting that many shots from that distance, of course, because the consistency of the shot isn't the same as 2pt shots... but at this point, he's working on his 4th season of shooting 44%+ on 6+ 3PA/g. You're talking 3.5 - 4% below Kobe's career average from 2, and as you create THAT situation, it becomes ridiculous. It remains troublesome on nights when he's off, but he's been shooting so well BELOW the arc that even when he's off from three, the balance has him shooting in the low to mid 40s from the field overall ANYWAY. That's the area where I expect Steph to slide some this year, because he's shooting a shade over 60% below the arc on 9.5 2PA/g, but I mean, he's gross-tactular, and pulling some magic before our eyes.

Right now, on the season, he's shooting 11.6 3PA/g. If he finishes the season taking 10+ 3s per game at that percentage, he will have established an approach to the game that is almost entirely unguardable, and inimitable to his ability. That's just... I mean, we're watching history, right here. League history developing before our eyes, it's magical.

Breaking the league is indeed a great way to put it.

However one personally ranks the top players in the game, what needs to be understood about Curry - and this has really been true for several years now - is that he's the one with a skill that actually falls into the "no one has ever been anywhere near this good before" category. What that means is that the normal rules - which are good rules - may not apply to him.

And as far as folks eating crow about this, anyone not eating crow about Curry is delusional. No one thought he'd be this good. All eating crow here means is that when new data shows you you were clearly wrong, you recognize it and adapt your perspective.

[tsherkin]

his 3P% is the same out to 1 decimal place, he's taking for the most part the same shots last year.

This isn't actually a small thing. Maintaining efficiency while increasing volume is actually difficult... and he's actually in the middle of the only player-season in NBA history of 9+ 3PA/g... and still shooting that percentage. If you take out McCloud's 96 season and focus only on seasons with the full-distance line, we've only ever seen 8+ 3PA/g on five other occasions... one of which was Steph Curry last season, two of which were Ray Allen and the others were 04 Baron (32.1%) and 91 Michael Adams (29.6%).

So we're really talking about unprecedented conjunction of volume and efficiency from 3, except from himself and from Ray Allen, who was a lot more off-ball.

This is actually not the same as last year,it's 3.5 extra shots PER GAME from 3pt range. That is HUGE, even if the raw 3P% is the same.

So yeah there's really no reason to watch this year's Curry and say "I'm blown away with the stuff he's doing this year", because people who had an accurate grasp on him last year aren't blown away by this.

This is wrong. There's EVERY reason to be blown away that he's doing this, because if he keeps it up, it's the single most incredible shooting season in the history of the sport, by a significant margin. He's approaching a volume increase of 40% while still shooting the ATG elite percentage he managed on his last major season. That's big, even if you grokked what he was doing last season.

[tsherkin]

And as far as folks eating crow about this, anyone not eating crow about Curry is delusional. No one thought he'd be this good. All eating crow here means is that when new data shows you you were clearly wrong, you recognize it and adapt your perspective.

Yeah, no doubt. I didn't see THIS coming, and I don't feel bad about that at all. Meantime, most of my comments about volume three-point shooting have not been so much about Steph. I am generally against volume scorers using high-volume 3pt shooting because they're often far less efficient and consistent than off-ball guys. 3pt shots are traditionally best-served as counter options off of penetration, post-ups and what-not leading to strong, quick ball movement, or from pin-down sets that produce a clean look at the basket for the guy moving without the ball.

But Steph for a couple of years now has been challenging that. Back to 2013, Steph has been aking 7+ 3PA/g at 44%+ from 3... at which point, he's been breaking the league. That's insane. I've been critical of Lebron, Melo, Durant, Paul George, Kobe, James Harden, even reaching back to T-Mac about being volume scorers who over-use the 3pt shot. Vince Carter, too. But I've not often been especially critical about Steph due to the percentage he's shot from there on huge volume for several years now. My real crow moment with Steph came last year watching him after I'd been discussing him versus Nash, and then watching what he had done, again, in the playoffs. That's the other thing, in case people weren't clear: he's a 9.9 3PA/g guy on his career in the playoffs at 41% 3P. EXCLUDING last year, he's at 8.6 3PA/g at 39.3% 3P. Those seasons, I was a little more critical over because that 5, 6% does make a difference, even if that's still insane. Last year, though, and so far this season, he's just hit this level of shooting that is wholly unmatched by any player in the entire roll of years during which the NBA has existed. No one has done this, ever. Nothing even really like it, either.