'15-16 RealGM Player of the Year Discussion Thread

[bondom34]

But we've seen in the past so many times here when a player is eliminated they suddenly drop in the rankings, so this doesn't apply to Kawhi? Because honestly in years past guys were always punished for this same thing, but Kawhi is being protected from it pretty well here.

[Doctor MJ]

But we've seen in the past so many times here when a player is eliminated they suddenly drop in the rankings, so this doesn't apply to Kawhi? Because honestly in years past guys were always punished for this same thing, but Kawhi is being protected from it pretty well here.

I have no interest in coming up with rankings for the '15-16 season that provide lip service to previous analysis. If we were right, great, if we were wrong, we do better this time.

[bondom34]

But we've seen in the past so many times here when a player is eliminated they suddenly drop in the rankings, so this doesn't apply to Kawhi? Because honestly in years past guys were always punished for this same thing, but Kawhi is being protected from it pretty well here.

I have no interest in coming up with rankings for the '15-16 season that provide lip service to previous analysis. If we were right, great, if we were wrong, we do better this time.

Alright, but the standard in the past seems to have changed, which is very odd to me in that it changed just in time to hold on to the ranking of a player who's viewed very highly in general here. People seem more willing to drop Curry than Kawhi and Curry's team won. People seem less willing to bump the 2 OKC guys when in the past when the same 2 lost they were instantly bumped down.

[mischievous]

But we've seen in the past so many times here when a player is eliminated they suddenly drop in the rankings, so this doesn't apply to Kawhi? Because honestly in years past guys were always punished for this same thing, but Kawhi is being protected from it pretty well here.

I have no interest in coming up with rankings for the '15-16 season that provide lip service to previous analysis. If we were right, great, if we were wrong, we do better this time.

Alright, but the standard in the past seems to have changed, which is very odd to me in that it changed just in time to hold on to the ranking of a player who's viewed very highly in general here. People seem more willing to drop Curry than Kawhi and Curry's team won. People seem less willing to bump the 2 OKC guys when in the past when the same 2 lost they were instantly bumped down.

Cp3 is the guy protected the most every season in regard to his team losing.

[Doctor MJ]

But we've seen in the past so many times here when a player is eliminated they suddenly drop in the rankings, so this doesn't apply to Kawhi? Because honestly in years past guys were always punished for this same thing, but Kawhi is being protected from it pretty well here.

I have no interest in coming up with rankings for the '15-16 season that provide lip service to previous analysis. If we were right, great, if we were wrong, we do better this time.

Alright, but the standard in the past seems to have changed, which is very odd to me in that it changed just in time to hold on to the ranking of a player who's viewed very highly in general here. People seem more willing to drop Curry than Kawhi and Curry's team won. People seem less willing to bump the 2 OKC guys when in the past when the same 2 lost they were instantly bumped down.

I wouldn't say we know what new standard exists yet, I'm just encouraging the conversation.

My guess though would be that both OKC guys will end up ahead of Kawhi, and I don't think that's remotely crazy.

[bondom34]

I have no interest in coming up with rankings for the '15-16 season that provide lip service to previous analysis. If we were right, great, if we were wrong, we do better this time.

Alright, but the standard in the past seems to have changed, which is very odd to me in that it changed just in time to hold on to the ranking of a player who's viewed very highly in general here. People seem more willing to drop Curry than Kawhi and Curry's team won. People seem less willing to bump the 2 OKC guys when in the past when the same 2 lost they were instantly bumped down.

I wouldn't say we know what new standard exists yet, I'm just encouraging the conversation.

My guess though would be that both OKC guys will end up ahead of Kawhi, and I don't think that's remotely crazy.

In honesty I still don't know if Durant is, but the weird thing is that both CP and Kawhi seem to not drop when they're eliminated as much as other players are.

[Doctor MJ]

Alright, but the standard in the past seems to have changed, which is very odd to me in that it changed just in time to hold on to the ranking of a player who's viewed very highly in general here. People seem more willing to drop Curry than Kawhi and Curry's team won. People seem less willing to bump the 2 OKC guys when in the past when the same 2 lost they were instantly bumped down.

I wouldn't say we know what new standard exists yet, I'm just encouraging the conversation.

My guess though would be that both OKC guys will end up ahead of Kawhi, and I don't think that's remotely crazy.

In honesty I still don't know if Durant is, but the weird thing is that both CP and Kawhi seem to not drop when they're eliminated as much as other players are.

Is this just based on this year? I feel like you're saying it isn't, but Kawhi's never even been a factor before, so I'm guessing you feel like this is a recurring Paul thing?

[RSCD3_]

But we've seen in the past so many times here when a player is eliminated they suddenly drop in the rankings, so this doesn't apply to Kawhi? Because honestly in years past guys were always punished for this same thing, but Kawhi is being protected from it pretty well here.

Well Kevin and Westbrook were good but they didn't really heavily outplay their RS level in the series. And kawhi basically played at the same level.

I would give a lot of credit to kanter and Adams and even waiters. It seemed more like the OKC supporting cast stood up than Durant and Westbrook going insane.

[Prince_Vegeta]

Can someone talk about Kawhi vs Green?

[The-Power]

Can someone talk about Kawhi vs Green?

What specifically do you want to see being addressed? I wrote some stuff about their defense in comparison some weeks ago, for instance.

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=46413599#p46413599

Spoiler:

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=46402939#p46402939
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=46411747#p46411747

Overall, a serious argument for Green can be made for any of the first seven spots whether one agrees with the method/argument or not. Ipso facto Green can reasonably be ranked higher than Leonard and vice versa.

[Doctor MJ]

Can someone talk about Kawhi vs Green?

Well, let me say up front, just as I said before: Kawhi is slipping in my mind, but I'm not sure if I agree with my change of perception here. As such I'm not really trying to make an argument.

Right now though, I prefer Green.

Both guys are world-class defenders. They are the two best in the game at it, and whoever is on top, I don't think it's a landslide.

Kawhi has taken the bigger scoring role, but Green is the one who seems to make himself central to every possession. Green seems smarter, more active, and is 180 degrees different personality-wise. While Kawhi is a quiet dude who basically is only now starting to have a real type of leadership impact, Green's possibly the most dynamic leader in the game and has everything to do with why the Warriors have such a swagger to them even when snags occur.

[PearGreatness]

Both guys are world-class defenders. They are the two best in the game at it, and whoever is on top, I don't think it's a landslide.

Green has separated himself somewhat from Kawhi in the in the playoffs for me, though that could change depending on how plays in the upcoming rounds. In the regular season I had them very close to even, with perhaps a slight edge to Green.

[Dr Positivity]

For me leaving Paul off is relatively easy. If I had him above any of Lebron, Durant, Westbrook, Kawhi, Green in the regular season it was by a negligible margin, add in his injury that was powerful enough to end the Clips season, and that seems more than enough to knock him below players who had as good of cases as those peers, and he has to be rated above 2 of them to make top 5

As for Kawhi - The OKC series helped reflect not at the class of Durant, Westbrook or Paul offensively, but he never had to be, he just has to be good enough on offense to compliment his DPOY impact. RPM reflects this as he is above Westbrook and Durant despite Westbrook having +7.03 ORPM, Durant +5.35, Kawhi +3.98, with Kawhi catching up from there in DRPM. Kawhi put up 22.5 ppg, .60 TS% with floor spacing these playoffs which is still a lot of offense, I agree he is not tier 1 on that end and some of his weaknesses hurt the Spurs, but he wasn't exposed. In the case of Kawhi vs Draymond it's not like Draymond has ever been tier 1 level offensively in either regular season or playoffs either, he has a case for top 10 on offense which is amazing, but that's still not superstar level on offense. I'm also skeptical of Draymond's ORPM (+4, 9th in the league and just above Kawhi) because the Curry effect on his numbers. Draymond's playmaking is an element Kawhi doesn't have in his game but Kawhi is easily the better scorer and that's been the case in both regular season and playoffs. While Green's floor spacing at a big man position is unique, floor spacing at SF matters as well, especially when the player has the better shooting season as Kawhi did which would presumably increase urgency to not leave him open.

[SideshowBob]

Final Four Playoff Performance (pre-Conference Finals)

Cleveland Cavaliers (8 G)

+12.46 SRS, +18.2 Offense, +4.2 Defense

Golden State Warriors (10 G)

+11.66 SRS, +9.3 Offense, -3.1 Defense

Oklahoma City Thunder (11 G)

+13.33 SRS, +12.2 Offense, -2.5 Defense

Toronto Raptors (14 G)

+1.70 SRS, +6.1 Offense, +3.7 Defense

[GSP]

Final Four Playoff Performance (pre-Conference Finals)

Cleveland Cavaliers (8 G)

+12.46 SRS, +18.2 Offense, +4.2 Defense

Golden State Warriors (10 G)

+11.66 SRS, +9.3 Offense, -3.1 Defense

Oklahoma City Thunder (11 G)

+13.33 SRS, +12.2 Offense, -2.5 Defense

Toronto Raptors (14 G)

+1.70 SRS, +6.1 Offense, +3.7 Defense

LMAO one of these is not like the others

[SideshowBob]

Wonder how high they can push the offense against Toronto. Hawks were 2nd in DRTG at -5.0 and Cleveland rocked a 122.9 vs them.

[Clyde Frazier]

Final Four Playoff Performance (pre-Conference Finals)

Cleveland Cavaliers (8 G)

+12.46 SRS, +18.2 Offense, +4.2 Defense

Golden State Warriors (10 G)

+11.66 SRS, +9.3 Offense, -3.1 Defense

Oklahoma City Thunder (11 G)

+13.33 SRS, +12.2 Offense, -2.5 Defense

Toronto Raptors (14 G)

+1.70 SRS, +6.1 Offense, +3.7 Defense

LMAO one of these is not like the others

I'm happy for raps fans getting their conf finals appearance, but man is that gonna be a tough series to watch...

[kayess]

Final Four Playoff Performance (pre-Conference Finals)

Cleveland Cavaliers (8 G)

+12.46 SRS, +18.2 Offense, +4.2 Defense

Golden State Warriors (10 G)

+11.66 SRS, +9.3 Offense, -3.1 Defense

Oklahoma City Thunder (11 G)

+13.33 SRS, +12.2 Offense, -2.5 Defense

Toronto Raptors (14 G)

+1.70 SRS, +6.1 Offense, +3.7 Defense

LMAO

[kayess]

Wonder how high they can push the offense against Toronto. Hawks were 2nd in DRTG at -5.0 and Cleveland rocked a 122.9 vs them.

All other things being equal, if the Cavs simply shot average from 3 vs. Toronto, what would their ORTG look like? I mean even something like a 110 would be a decent showing against a -5.0 defense

[SideshowBob]

Wonder how high they can push the offense against Toronto. Hawks were 2nd in DRTG at -5.0 and Cleveland rocked a 122.9 vs them.

All other things being equal, if the Cavs simply shot average from 3 vs. Toronto, what would their ORTG look like? I mean even something like a 110 would be a decent showing against a -5.0 defense

You mean Atlanta? Kind of tough to say because would they have shot that kind of volume if they weren't shooting so well? Or would they have switched to more Lebron post-up + motion towards the basket? FWIW, while they were obviously hot, I thought it was clear that their offense/lineups was designed to create threes like this (Lebron screen and roll till death w/spacers everywhere). All else held equal if they shot 36% on threes they would have lost the series (~95.1 PPG, so like 104 ORTG).

If they maintain +18.2 vs Toronto that's 123.4. Against Atlanta their offense was a +21.5. Against Toronto that'd be a ~127 ORTG.