PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics]

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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 

Post#401 » by limbo » Mon Apr 6, 2020 5:46 pm

GSP wrote:Terrible take that shows a lack of knowledge on early Ufc. Dana wanted to sell the company when they were millions in debt and didnt want to do Tuf. Without that first Tuf season and Forrest/Bonnar it never gets as big as it got in North America and very well mightve been bankrupt. Ufc success was far more the Fertittas than it was Dana, not only them lending him money to start but basically most of the operations that didnt include being a tard on the camera was them.

Ufc consistently sucked at promoting their best fighters. Anderson pre Chael, Demetrious, Aldo etc. were some of the most dominant fighters ever and did terrible in terms of their draw power. The only guys they ever promoted greatly were Tito, Chuck, Conor, Ronda, Brock and Gsp and all of those guys basically promoted themselves and Brock had his Wwe background and Gsp had an entire country backing him up every fight. Chuck built his name off Titos promotion and Dana did do the bulk of promoting him really only fell flat when he entered him into the Pride tournament and he got crushed

Even Bones who does well as a draw complains about Dana and their promotion. Most champions have. They had to **** trade Demetrious Johnson for Ben Askren :lol: :lol: and ironically Askren ended up making Masvidal a star with his promotion


Blah blah blah

Dana White > David Stern

Fact of the matter is Dana White was and still is a SIGNIFICANTLY more hands on leader/commissioner while having had WAY less resources to work with and no previous foundation to build on (we can argue how successful the NBA was before Stern took over, but there's no debate there were decades of already established foundation he could started tweaking... he didn't built anything from ground up... Not to mention he inherited a league where the Lakers/Celtics rivalry was in full effect, basically promoting itself, spearheaded by Magic playing showtime basketball in the biggest market in the league and Bird being arguably the most skilled white player playing for the most winningest NBA market in league history... AND that's without acknowledging MJ's arrival being right around the corner). Like, the stars couldn't have aligned any more perfectly...

Obviously, Dana isn't perfect, far from it, but like i said... as a leader/commissioner... he's FAR more involved and hands-on in terms of UFC than Stern was with the NBA. You mentioned TUF, big part of the reason why people watched that was because of Dana and his personality and the role he filled in that. Every big fight the UFC has, Dana is there promoting it, doing press conferences etc... When have you ever seen Stern go live before the NBA Finals, and talk to the press about how Michael Jordan and the Bulls are about to face the Jazz for the 2nd consecutive year in the Finals etc. etc... He doesn't. EPSN and outsourced Sports outlets do more promoting than he did. He just came to hand over the trophy when it was all said and done, and the next time you saw him was a couple of months later saying ''With the 1st pick, in the NBA draft...'' and repeated that 60 times.

Dana is actually in the frontlines... he puts himself on the line and allows himself to be scrutinized and torn apart for the growth of the UFC... Not to mention he's doing this stuff on a global level. Trying to balance all these different personalities, cultures and host events in every corner on the World... WAY more difficult to run and control an operation like this.

Stern's biggest achievement is telling Iverson to stop dressing like a thug. :lol: Magic/Bird made him a warm nest and MJ carried him all the way to retirement... He created a one-and-done rule, which was dumb... Citing players would benefit from being in college longer and getting some more 'maturity' under their belt... yeah, because COLLEGE is the perfect breeding grounds for acquiring real life maturity... give me a break. What else did he do? He said, ''hey there's this thing called the Internet... maybe we should start putting NBA content on there...'' What a genius proposition... it's not like everybody else was doing the same thing... It took too long for NBA League Pass to reach its potential and NBA.com has always been one of the most horrible sites i've ever visited coming from an organization as big as the NBA. What else? He somehow gets credited for the Dream Team existing, even though he wasn't the one involved in the decision-making process and FIBA was way more advocate about allowing professionals to participate.He supported a move from the 14th biggest market in the US to Oklahoma City, he was responsible for 2 lockouts in his tenure, he cost Chris Paul rings because 'basketball reasons'.

Dana White > David Stern

i rest my case.

Edit: I forgot i had a point to make about Bones. A lot of the reason why Bones is 'under-promoted' is due to himself and the controversy surrounding him personally. Not Dana's fault this dude is busted every year doing immoral illegal activities. He's also not really the most interesting man character-wise to be honest... Same goes for Mighty Mouse. No one cares about a serious scrawny dude fighting other sacks of potato in the lowest division. He's the Tim Duncan of UFC, except Duncan didn't perform in a division nobody cares about with abysmal competition.
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 

Post#402 » by Goudelock » Mon Apr 6, 2020 9:35 pm

If anyone is stuck in quarantine and needs a good game to sink hours and hours into, I'd recommend "Football Manager 2020." The amount of depth in that game is insane, and if you're already a fan of FIFA and you know how soccer finances work, then it's like heaven.

I should note that I only have the most rudimentary understanding of said finances and I'm just floundering my way through the game.
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 

Post#403 » by trex_8063 » Tue Apr 7, 2020 1:57 am

Was watching some of game 6 of the 1976 Finals, and I think the best part of the video is at 29:06....



The commentators can hardly keep on track. :lol:
It shouldn't have shocked them at that point; in watching this, I note the cameras at every televised time-out or just back from commercial, they'd be focused in on some pretty lady in the crowd. Know your audience, I guess.....
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 

Post#404 » by HeartBreakKid » Tue Apr 7, 2020 10:49 am

Texas Chuck wrote:One can not like David Stern, but it's pretty impossible to dispute that his tenure was a huge success for this league we love.


Isn't it the same for Dana White? He has been president of the UFC longer than the vast majority of MMA fans have followed the sport.
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 

Post#405 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Apr 7, 2020 1:42 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:One can not like David Stern, but it's pretty impossible to dispute that his tenure was a huge success for this league we love.


Isn't it the same for Dana White? He has been president of the UFC longer than the vast majority of MMA fans have followed the sport.


I made no comments on White. I don't follow MMA or the UFC nearly close enough to have an opinion. limbo just roped me in assigning me a position I ever espoused. :D
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 

Post#406 » by Goudelock » Tue Apr 7, 2020 2:58 pm

trex_8063 wrote:Was watching some of game 6 of the 1976 Finals, and I think the best part of the video is at 29:06....



The commentators can hardly keep on track. :lol:
It shouldn't have shocked them at that point; in watching this, I note the cameras at every televised time-out or just back from commercial, they'd be focused in on some pretty lady in the crowd. Know your audience, I guess.....


Of course it's Brent Musburger announcing the game :lol:
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 

Post#407 » by limbo » Tue Apr 7, 2020 6:25 pm

Dana White just said **** it and copped an island to host UFC fights on. This is why he's the GOAT :DDD
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 

Post#408 » by Texas Chuck » Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:29 pm

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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 

Post#409 » by Clyde Frazier » Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:44 pm

California high school star Jalen Green, the No. 1 prospect in the 2020 ESPN 100, is making the leap to a reshaped NBA professional pathway program -- a G League initiative that will pay elite prospects $500,000-plus and provide a one-year development program outside of the minor league's traditional team structure, sources told ESPN.

Green -- a potential No. 1 overall pick in the 2021 NBA draft -- announced Thursday that he is bypassing college to become the professional pathway's first participant, a decision that likely clears the way for more commitments from elite prospects.

Green is committing to become part of a yearlong developmental program with G League oversight that will include professional coaching, top prospects and veteran players who will combine training and exhibition competitions against the likes of G League teams, foreign national teams and NBA academies throughout the world, sources said.

The season could include 10 to 12 games against G League teams that wouldn't count in standings, sources said. The primary objective will be assimilation and growth into the NBA on several levels -- from playing to the teaching of life skills.

The salary bonus structure in Green's contract, for example, is expected to include financial incentives for games played, completing community events and attending life skills programs coordinated by the G League's oversight of the program, sources said.

The NBA's plan is to stock this team with veteran pro players who would be willing to balance mentorship of Green and other prospects with the personal opportunities that might emerge because of the intense NBA scouting exposure that will come with these teams.


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29043828/sources-top-high-school-player-jalen-green-enter-nba-g-league-pathway?platform=amp&_nocache1=&__twitter_impression=true

I'm trying to temper my expectations, but i'm really excited about this. I do think the fact that they landed such a valuable prospect to kickoff the program makes a big difference. This is a true development program with legitimate salary which looks to follow the model of basketball academies in europe. It was a long time coming, but at the same time I can't believe it's here. I guess because there weren't any rumors leading up to it.

They also said future college tuition is included in the program. This news is especially nice to see amidst the stoppage of basketball. Something to look forward to!
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 

Post#410 » by MyUniBroDavis » Sat Apr 18, 2020 4:49 pm

PockyCandy wrote:If anyone is stuck in quarantine and needs a good game to sink hours and hours into, I'd recommend "Football Manager 2020." The amount of depth in that game is insane, and if you're already a fan of FIFA and you know how soccer finances work, then it's like heaven.

I should note that I only have the most rudimentary understanding of said finances and I'm just floundering my way through the game.



I got the mobile version and it gets super ridiculous if you know good formations lol, at least in the earlier versions

got aguero to like 2.5 goals a game or something and he had over a 100 at the end of the season
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 

Post#411 » by Goudelock » Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:04 pm

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
PockyCandy wrote:If anyone is stuck in quarantine and needs a good game to sink hours and hours into, I'd recommend "Football Manager 2020." The amount of depth in that game is insane, and if you're already a fan of FIFA and you know how soccer finances work, then it's like heaven.

I should note that I only have the most rudimentary understanding of said finances and I'm just floundering my way through the game.



I got the mobile version and it gets super ridiculous if you know good formations lol, at least in the earlier versions

got aguero to like 2.5 goals a game or something and he had over a 100 at the end of the season


Damn. I consider myself good at tactics, but not that good to the point where I can cheese the game. I usually alternate in between vertical tiki-take and focusing on wing play. The game seems to adapt to your tactics if you use only a certain style, so I have to mix it up.
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 

Post#412 » by MisterHibachi » Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:37 am

Who's watching the Last Dance. Starting off with **** on Jerry Krause. We already know Michael had control of this documentary :lol:
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 

Post#413 » by Goudelock » Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:51 pm

MisterHibachi wrote:Who's watching the Last Dance. Starting off with **** on Jerry Krause. We already know Michael had control of this documentary :lol:


ESPN's social media is nothing but Michael Jordan right now. They're truly getting to re-live the 90s :lol:

Seriously though, if this was how it was back in the day, it must have been insufferable for anyone who wasn't a Bulls fan.
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 

Post#414 » by Doctor MJ » Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:15 pm

MisterHibachi wrote:Who's watching the Last Dance. Starting off with **** on Jerry Krause. We already know Michael had control of this documentary :lol:


Haven't watched it, but I don't know how it could be otherwise.

I'm generally of the opinion that GMs who take a self-aggrandizing approach against players drafted by the prior regime deserve ire in a way that ordinary incompetents don't. The reality is that Krause was nowhere near as intellectually incompetent as the most moronic GMs we've ever had and he can be defended on that front, but when you belittle someone drafted by the guy who was in charge before you despite obviously being wrong, you're actively hurting your boss in order to advance your career.

In the modern NBA, the equivalent was David Kahn in Minnesota with his treatment of Kevin Love. Because Kahn was so incompetent across the board he's a far better candidate for worst modern GM than Krause is...but on the other hand, doubting Love was far, far, far less crazy than belittling your MVP.

Also, I cut my teeth on this as a San Diego Chargers fan with GM AJ Smith. In 2001, then GM John Butler had the draft of the ages when he traded down away from the #1 overall pick and the chance to draft Michael Vick, and ended up acquiring LaDainian Tomlinson and Drew Brees - two all-time greats who would have far greater careers than Vick with none of the ugly off-field stuff.

Butler would fall ill and pass away by 2003, and AJ Smith came in and draft quarterback Philip Rivers in 2004 and would soon trade Brees against his coach's wishes to make sure that HIS guy was the franchise quarterback.

In Smith's defense, at the time when he drafted Rivers, Brees had not yet "turned the corner". It was within the realm of possibility that Brees would not make it, and since Smith clearly believed in Rivers, it made sense for him to draft Rivers is he was really sure of things. But the very next seasons Brees did turn the corner, became a Pro Bowler, and made it really obvious that he was the franchise quarterback. Smith traded him anyway, and the general feeling was that this only made sense if you had a vested interest in the Rivers choices - quite clearly a mistake - not being a mistake. (Smith was spared the shame he deserved because Rivers turned out quite good, but both the "floor" of keeping Brees was far higher than that of drafting another QB rookie, and since Brees' ceiling always remained well above Rivers, it remains a costly mistake.)

So anyway, that's my rant. When you're a GM, and you end up trying to push down your best player for reasons that don't make sense to anyone without a bias, you generally become pretty reviled even if you're able to maintain the relationship with your sucker of a boss.

It's sad of course to see a guy who passed a way now brought up again just to be the butt of a joke, but Krause did this to himself with his own ego.
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 

Post#415 » by penbeast0 » Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:04 pm

PockyCandy wrote:
MisterHibachi wrote:Who's watching the Last Dance. Starting off with **** on Jerry Krause. We already know Michael had control of this documentary :lol:


ESPN's social media is nothing but Michael Jordan right now. They're truly getting to re-live the 90s :lol:

Seriously though, if this was how it was back in the day, it must have been insufferable for anyone who wasn't a Bulls fan.


Yes, it was.
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 

Post#416 » by Owly » Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:10 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:
MisterHibachi wrote:Who's watching the Last Dance. Starting off with **** on Jerry Krause. We already know Michael had control of this documentary :lol:


Haven't watched it, but I don't know how it could be otherwise.

I'm generally of the opinion that GMs who take a self-aggrandizing approach against players drafted by the prior regime deserve ire in a way that ordinary incompetents don't. The reality is that Krause was nowhere near as intellectually incompetent as the most moronic GMs we've ever had and he can be defended on that front, but when you belittle someone drafted by the guy who was in charge before you despite obviously being wrong, you're actively hurting your boss in order to advance your career.

In the modern NBA, the equivalent was David Kahn in Minnesota with his treatment of Kevin Love. Because Kahn was so incompetent across the board he's a far better candidate for worst modern GM than Krause is...but on the other hand, doubting Love was far, far, far less crazy than belittling your MVP.

Also, I cut my teeth on this as a San Diego Chargers fan with GM AJ Smith. In 2001, then GM John Butler had the draft of the ages when he traded down away from the #1 overall pick and the chance to draft Michael Vick, and ended up acquiring LaDainian Tomlinson and Drew Brees - two all-time greats who would have far greater careers than Vick with none of the ugly off-field stuff.

Butler would fall ill and pass away by 2003, and AJ Smith came in and draft quarterback Philip Rivers in 2004 and would soon trade Brees against his coach's wishes to make sure that HIS guy was the franchise quarterback.

In Smith's defense, at the time when he drafted Rivers, Brees had not yet "turned the corner". It was within the realm of possibility that Brees would not make it, and since Smith clearly believed in Rivers, it made sense for him to draft Rivers is he was really sure of things. But the very next seasons Brees did turn the corner, became a Pro Bowler, and made it really obvious that he was the franchise quarterback. Smith traded him anyway, and the general feeling was that this only made sense if you had a vested interest in the Rivers choices - quite clearly a mistake - not being a mistake. (Smith was spared the shame he deserved because Rivers turned out quite good, but both the "floor" of keeping Brees was far higher than that of drafting another QB rookie, and since Brees' ceiling always remained well above Rivers, it remains a costly mistake.)

So anyway, that's my rant. When you're a GM, and you end up trying to push down your best player for reasons that don't make sense to anyone without a bias, you generally become pretty reviled even if you're able to maintain the relationship with your sucker of a boss.

It's sad of course to see a guy who passed a way now brought up again just to be the butt of a joke, but Krause did this to himself with his own ego.

Did Krause belittle MJ (assume you mean MJ here)?

I was aware of him being pompous. Self--centered and/or odd (heard something like telling Majerle to play badly in pre draft tournaments so that the Bulls could grab him in like the third round or something). Abrasive (just from the number of run ins, though Motta, Jordan, Jackson and Pippen all had their egos). Lacking in tact/diplomacy (not the worst instance but I recall him campaigning for himself to be in the HoF iirc).

In terms of "belittling" I'm only aware of that in one direction though. And I may just not have heard it because Krause didn't have a megaphone like MJ (though because he was the "villain" he did have plenty of people wanting him to look stupid) or not remembered. Could you cite something?

And whilst there were missteps (Sellers, King - though the picks after were pretty bad too so ...) a good patient build moving short term "assets" who aren't great for a winning team and aren't on the timeline (Woolridge) for picks, reloading on the fly by tapping untapped markets (Kukoc), moving on from a coach when getting good, going in the right direction, because you think there's someone better ... and being right. Not a systematic look but I don't think that he needs "defending" in terms of his record or comparisons with "moronic GMs" in terms of the degree of "intellectually incompeten[ce]" because he was competent, further, probably very good. Lucky to have MJ of course (though imagine a shorter-term thinnking GM on the Bulls, or imagine him on the Clippers, imagine him on a team that's happy to rush him back in year 2..., a team that doesn't come out of the '87 draft with Pippen and Grant ... there's a case that MJ was lucky to have Krause too) but good.

If you want to say his ego, lack of people skills brought ridicule on himself, okay. I think that's more separate from how good he was at his job than you seem to present (not that it isn't a part of it, and because the Bulls were successful [and maybe because Mj was willing to go to war] the being bad at PR and therefore being a punchline probably hurt him going forwards) and of course results are somewhat dictated by luck and circumstance but, he has pretty good results. I guess maybe if he was actually belittling MJ that gets to a point of weird/unprofessional/dumb that it's a version of being really bad.
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 

Post#417 » by Doctor MJ » Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:41 pm

Owly wrote:Did Krause belittle MJ (assume you mean MJ here)?

I was aware of him being pompous. Self--centered and/or odd (heard something like telling Majerle to play badly in pre draft tournaments so that the Bulls could grab him in like the third round or something). Abrasive (just from the number of run ins, though Motta, Jordan, Jackson and Pippen all had their egos). Lacking in tact/diplomacy (not the worst instance but I recall him campaigning for himself to be in the HoF iirc).

In terms of "belittling" I'm only aware of that in one direction though. And I may just not have heard it because Krause didn't have a megaphone like MJ (though because he was the "villain" he did have plenty of people wanting him to look stupid) or not remembered. Could you cite something?

And whilst there were missteps (Sellers, King - though the picks after were pretty bad too so ...) a good patient build moving short term "assets" who aren't great for a winning team and aren't on the timeline (Woolridge) for picks, reloading on the fly by tapping untapped markets (Kukoc), moving on from a coach when getting good, going in the right direction, because you think there's someone better ... and being right. Not a systematic look but I don't think that he needs "defending" in terms of his record or comparisons with "moronic GMs" in terms of the degree of "intellectually incompeten[ce]" because he was competent, further, probably very good. Lucky to have MJ of course (though imagine a shorter-term thinnking GM on the Bulls, or imagine him on the Clippers, imagine him on a team that's happy to rush him back in year 2..., a team that doesn't come out of the '87 draft with Pippen and Grant ... there's a case that MJ was lucky to have Krause too) but good.

If you want to say his ego, lack of people skills brought ridicule on himself, okay. I think that's more separate from how good he was at his job than you seem to present (not that it isn't a part of it, and because the Bulls were successful [and maybe because Mj was willing to go to war] the being bad at PR and therefore being a punchline probably hurt him going forwards) and of course results are somewhat dictated by luck and circumstance but, he has pretty good results. I guess maybe if he was actually belittling MJ that gets to a point of weird/unprofessional/dumb that it's a version of being really bad.


Uh...

Jerry Krause wrote:Players and coaches don't win championships; organizations win championships.


This is an incredibly self-aggrandizing statement made specifically by contrasting the role of the organizational leader (Krause) against the players (Jordan & Pippen) and coaches (Krause).

Add in the whole history with Krause regarding Toni Kukoc, and the fact that the Bulls' organization would eventually shoved the Jordan/Pippen/Jackson trio out the door in order to facilitate their future that they were so comically overoptimistic about, yeah, I'd call that belittling.

Re: ego is separate from good he was at his job. There's truth in this. On the other hand, part of any job is staying on good terms with the people who could destroy you. I mean, I'd say Krause should be a nice guy to even the least powerful employee, but that's more about being a good person. The fact of the matter is you can be a terrible, sadistic boss and be just fine as long as you keep on good terms with your star employee. What you never do is let your ego get in the way of that relationship.

I'm reminded of a story my dad told me that a mentor told him when he became a boss.

Sales team meeting with sales team, boss, and boss' boss.

Boss: "Hey #1 Salesman, could you...?"
#1 Salesman: "Go s**t in your hat."

Boss looks at boss' boss.

Boss' boss: "Time to get a new hat."

Many will look at that statement and blame the #1 Salesman for being bad, and they aren't wrong. Jordan was kind of a terrible person to those who were less powerful than him. But Jordan was Krause's meal ticket, and now is literally the only reason any of us are talking about Krause. If Krause didn't want to deal with the quick-to-be-annoyed anger of a star basketball player, he shouldn't have been in the NBA. It was Krause's job to be the bigger person.

(You can argue that he still was the bigger person because Jordan was so small, but Krause needed to be big enough that Jordan didn't end up having good reason to be irritated with Krause.)

(Incidentally, I had my own versions of this when I moved into management and had to deal with diva coders, but the answer was not to "stand up" to the coder that the CEO wouldn't stand up to - I certainly couldn't fire the guy if the CEO wouldn't. While I had that role, I swallowed my pride, ignored the arrogance and did the professional thing. And then I left.)
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 

Post#418 » by MisterHibachi » Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:33 am

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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 

Post#419 » by E-Balla » Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:42 am

It's odd given the known history of how Krause treated Scottie and MJ from 91 all the way to 98 to be judging them for openly disliking the man. They said Scottie crossed a line but MJ seemed to keep it light given how much Krause disrespected the thing MJ felt most proud of himself for accomplishing.

From low balling Pippen in a deal even the owner told him not to take (it's still ultimately on Scottie but still it was 1991 and he was on a championship squad he didn't want to leave), to publicly attempting to replace MJ and Scottie with Kukoc who wasn't even in the league while those two are actively winning you championships, to trying to trade Scottie for Shawn Kemp once Scottie finally had the spot as the man, to almost trading Scottie for T-Mac in the offseason following 97.

If you're constantly trying to split a squad that's winning you championships while belittling the impact of players I'd say you're openly disrespecting him way more than MJ making short jokes at practice.
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 

Post#420 » by bondom34 » Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:01 am

MisterHibachi wrote:
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Damn, Draymond with zero filter. If he wasn't a Warrior, he would be one of my favorite players.

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MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO

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