The Lebron Thread (Pt. 3)

[D.Brasco]

MJ had a pretty crappy by his standards finals in '96 and the Bulls still came away. It doesn't really matter overall whether he's been up to his regular season standards just that he can get his team to a win. That's really all that matters in terms of legacy.

Not comparable in the slightest.

In what way?

George Karl at the end of the series as a slight at MJ obviously, argued Dennis Rodman should have been the finals MVP for that series.

My point is it's moot what lebron's numbers are this series as long as the heat win.

[NaturalThunder]

That wasn't peak Jordan in '96, either, while this is supposed to be peak LeBron. Coming off a regular season that, rightfully so in my opinion, had people here saying he's as good as or better than peak Jordan. By those standards, it's not only been an underwhelming Finals for LeBron, it's been an underwhelming playoffs, too.

[Chalky White]

Attributing his poor play to fatigue is merely an excuse. Moreover, his aggressiveness or lack there of has nothing to do with his struggles. He's simply overrated. When the competition is toughest, he seldom appears the best player on the floor.

He's struggling against the Spurs because they're taking away his fast break opportunities, collapsing on his drives, and daring him to beat them with his jump shot. Unfortunately for him, he isn't particularly skilled in the high or low post, he isn't proficient out of the triple threat, his off ball game is practically non existent, and he isn't a good jump shooter. To compound this, he plays as if he obsesses over his FG%. He misses a few shots and floats, signifying mental deficiencies in the context of focus.

[ThaRegul8r]

MJ had a pretty crappy by his standards finals in '96 and the Bulls still came away. It doesn't really matter overall whether he's been up to his regular season standards just that he can get his team to a win. That's really all that matters in terms of legacy.

Not comparable in the slightest.

In what way?

George Karl at the end of the series as a slight at MJ obviously, argued Dennis Rodman should have been the finals MVP for that series.

No, it wasn't a slight. George Karl wasn't the only one who said it, as I was watching basketball at the time, as well as following national opinion. I remember at least Luc Longley said it as well, and Longley was Jordan's teammate, unless he had a slight against Jordan as well.

[PCProductions]

Tough game for Miami because San Antonio was nailing just about everything near the end.

As for Bron, he played OK. Not amazing nor badly. The problem is that he needs to be amazing. Simple as that. He looked sharp in the second quarter and picked the pockets of his assignment a few times which is always a sign of effort, so that's obviously not the issue. To be truthful, I think Lebron got a little peeved with some of the way the officials called the game--not that that's a valid excuse. I expect him to come strong in Game 6, though is there a game where we DON'T anticipate that?

My issue was missing several of his shots in the restricted area, even in transition! That should be like Ray Allen from the foul line: a free two points. If those aren't going down, then that's a BAD sign. One can only wonder if Lebron's likes being down in a series these days as that's the only times where he ever performs to expectations. Now, he doesn't have any freebies left, and we will see how much Lebron really wants it.

[microfib4thewin]

Even if he plays well for the next two games I don't know how I should summarize this season for him. He was completely dominant in the regular season at both the individual level and team level, didn't do much in the first two rounds as his team is rolling along, played much better in the ECF while his team struggled, and in the Finals he only have one exceptional game with his team down 3-2. GOAT season is pretty much out of the question at this point. I would probably still put this season below 2009, 2010 and 2012 assuming he plays great in game 6 and 7.

[ThaRegul8r]

GOAT season is pretty much out of the question at this point.

Which is why I'd been saying over and over again that people should actually wait for the season to end before their typical knee-jerk reactions. Wait until the book on the season is complete before comparing it to seasons that are already done.

[bballcool34]

The most concerning thing for Miami though is that Wade was very good tonight as well. What are the chances that Wade is going to keep playing well? Not very high, imo.

This is just a really silly statement, that's not how it works. Wade has no low outplayed Lebron in the last two games and if anything, his confidence and his increased role means that he is LESS likely to revert to playing worse. Miami's biggest concern, in addition to defense, is that they had all time GOAT level player who has starkly underperformed thus far in the Finals and is looking like an extremely limited offensive player, relatively speaking for a player of his caliber.

And yeah of course this pretty much removes him from GOAT talks as of now for this season because his impact right now is just not at that level.

[Rerisen]

Even if he plays well for the next two games I don't know how I should summarize this season for him.

David Robinson like. Who had some utterly dominant regular seasons statistically then with playoff regression similar to LeBron.

[Jordan23Forever]

Pretty crazy how useless he looked tonight (and most of this series) when he doesn't get transition buckets. At least half of his made FG's in the first half were transition, and then of course he disappeared in the second half.

[TheChosen618]

I think that Lebron could end up being considered to be the Wilt of this era. Someone that had a do it all ability and did do it all, but still didn't win consistently enough.

Pretty crazy how useless he looked tonight (and most of this series) when he doesn't get transition buckets. At least half of his made FG's in the first half were transition, and then of course he disappeared in the second half.

How would you rank Lebron's 5 best seasons assuming the Heat lose in Game 6?

[GSP]

Even if he plays well for the next two games I don't know how I should summarize this season for him.

David Robinson like. Who had some utterly dominant regular seasons statistically then with playoff regression similar to LeBron.

RS
27.6 PER, .241 WS/48

PS
27.2 PER, .238 WS/48

Every player drops off in the playoffs but to suggest its similar for Lebron to DRob is RIDICULOUS. That is such an insult to the best playoff performer of his generation.

[Chalky White]

I think the most pathetic aspect of LBJ's performance is that the Spurs are beating him by literally allowing him to shoot. It's unprecedented, and an insult to his ability. And his defense is trash.

[Chalky White]

Even if he plays well for the next two games I don't know how I should summarize this season for him.

David Robinson like. Who had some utterly dominant regular seasons statistically then with playoff regression similar to LeBron.

RS
27.6 PER, .241 WS/48

PS
27.2 PER, .238 WS/48

Every player drops off in the playoffs but to suggest its similar for Lebron to DRob is RIDICULOUS. That is such an insult to the best playoff performer of his generation.

To suggest LeBron is the best playoff performer of his generation is laughable. He's more renowned for his failures than his successes.

[GSP]

Lebron wasnt great tonight no other way to say it this is so frustrating. He hasnt even looked consistently on defense this series ugh. Good thing the Heats respond after a loss since the start of the year this is going to 7.

[Rerisen]

Every player drops off in the playoffs but to suggest its similar for Lebron to DRob is RIDICULOUS. That is such an insult to the best playoff performer of his generation.

This season only under discussion, not whole career. Once tonights box goes in, he is probably over three and a half points off his season PER and about 20% off his season WS/48.

Drop isn't quite as big as some of D-Robs, but that is one of the few guys that compares to the regular season dominance, who faced a noticeable drop. Of course all players see a split, but among the most dominant players in the league you expect them to hold up better.

Specifically to this series though, not just about the stats, but LeBron's inability to be able to stay engaged in impacting the game.

[Illmatic21]

Even if he plays well for the next two games I don't know how I should summarize this season for him.

David Robinson like. Who had some utterly dominant regular seasons statistically then with playoff regression similar to LeBron.

RS
27.6 PER, .241 WS/48

PS
27.2 PER, .238 WS/48

Every player drops off in the playoffs but to suggest its similar for Lebron to DRob is RIDICULOUS. That is such an insult to the best playoff performer of his generation.

Lebron the best playoff performer of his generation? Lebron James?

[lorak]

Looks like last year narrative ("LeBron improved so much, also better in the post") wasn't true at all. What's even more sad it seems LeBron didn't improve much since 2007 as he plays almost as bad vs worse defensively Spurs team as in 2007 finals. Big disappointment for me.

[CJ_18]

David Robinson like. Who had some utterly dominant regular seasons statistically then with playoff regression similar to LeBron.

RS
27.6 PER, .241 WS/48

PS
27.2 PER, .238 WS/48

Every player drops off in the playoffs but to suggest its similar for Lebron to DRob is RIDICULOUS. That is such an insult to the best playoff performer of his generation.

To suggest LeBron is the best playoff performer of his generation is laughable. He's more renowned for his failures than his successes.

He has one glaring playoff failure, but his playoff dominance over the years far outweighs any disappointments.

2007- Carry's a team to the finals by himself at the age of 22.
2008- 28/8/8 for these playoffs.. Takes the eventual champs 2008 Celtics to game 7 where they lose by 5 points (while he scores 45)
2009- Averages 35/9/7 throughout the playoffs, hits a 30 foot off balance 3 at the buzzer to steal a game of the ECF, yet his dominance is not enough for his weak cavaliers to beat a hot magic team.
2010- averages 29/9/8 but again his Cavs just aren't good enough to beat the celtics
2011- Was phenomenal up until the finals.. his lone individual playoff disappointment.
2012- Averages 30/10/6.. has some of the most epic playoff performances we've ever seen, carries Miami to a Championship

A career 28/9/7 in the playoffs.. I would argue that suggesting that LeBron is NOT infact individually one of the best playoff performers is laughable.

[Chalky White]

RS
27.6 PER, .241 WS/48

PS
27.2 PER, .238 WS/48

Every player drops off in the playoffs but to suggest its similar for Lebron to DRob is RIDICULOUS. That is such an insult to the best playoff performer of his generation.

To suggest LeBron is the best playoff performer of his generation is laughable. He's more renowned for his failures than his successes.

He has one glaring playoff failure, but his playoff dominance over the years far outweighs any disappointments.

2007- Carry's a team to the finals by himself at the age of 22.
2008- 28/8/8 for these playoffs.. Takes the eventual champs 2008 Celtics to game 7 where they lose by 5 points (while he scores 45)
2009- Averages 35/9/7 throughout the playoffs, hits a 30 foot off balance 3 at the buzzer to steal a game of the ECF, yet his dominance is not enough for his weak cavaliers to beat a hot magic team.
2010- averages 29/9/8 but again his Cavs just aren't good enough to beat the celtics
2011- Was phenomenal up until the finals.. his lone individual playoff disappointment.
2012- Averages 30/10/6.. has some of the most epic playoff performances we've ever seen, carries Miami to a Championship

A career 28/9/7 in the playoffs.. I would argue that suggesting that LeBron is NOT infact individually one of the best playoff performers is laughable.

1/4 in the finals.

A disappointment and a failure given what he was supposed to be. I don't care that he can beat up on teams that hardly manage to break .500, he shrinks against elite competition and is often neutralized and brushed aside. He'll rightly be remembered for falling short, and his lack of championship success will define his legacy.