2022-23 NBA Season Discussion

[MyUniBroDavis]

I buy the shooting part but does he really move the needle with his strenght as face up, finisher or post up player? What about passing, finishing or offensive rebounding?

Isn’t this just Myles turner with a bit worse defense lol

That is what i meant, like sure, if gobert had a 3 point shot that would be cool for versatility

But gobert as a good but not great shooter does really move the needle much compared to gobert the offensive rebounder/rolling man?

Like utah offenses were already excellent, how much better are they supposed to be if you switch rebounding and pick and roll plays for a extra 3 point shooter spacing the floor?

Is why i was a bit perplexed by the idea that gobert with a fine 3 point shot becomes the best player in the league.... i think you would need to give him towns shooting at minimum for that to actually be a discussion and maybe not even then

and i am high on gobert but i think peopke overstimate what a good but not great spot up shooting big actually helps compared to good offensive rebounding or solid finishing bigs help

I dont think al horford with gobert defense is the best player in the league for example, and i dont think myles turner is more vakuable offensively than steven adams or clint capela

A stretch 5 enables others to be great, that’s different from being a great talented offensive player, but I think it’s far more valuable in the sense that having two bigs that can’t shoot is tough for an offense, 1 or 2 really should be able to shoot

[falcolombardi]

Isn’t this just Myles turner with a bit worse defense lol

That is what i meant, like sure, if gobert had a 3 point shot that would be cool for versatility

But gobert as a good but not great shooter does really move the needle much compared to gobert the offensive rebounder/rolling man?

Like utah offenses were already excellent, how much better are they supposed to be if you switch rebounding and pick and roll plays for a extra 3 point shooter spacing the floor?

Is why i was a bit perplexed by the idea that gobert with a fine 3 point shot becomes the best player in the league.... i think you would need to give him towns shooting at minimum for that to actually be a discussion and maybe not even then

and i am high on gobert but i think peopke overstimate what a good but not great spot up shooting big actually helps compared to good offensive rebounding or solid finishing bigs help

I dont think al horford with gobert defense is the best player in the league for example, and i dont think myles turner is more vakuable offensively than steven adams or clint capela

A stretch 5 enables others to be great, that’s different from being a great talented offensive player, but I think it’s far more valuable in the sense that having two bigs that can’t shoot is tough for an offense, 1 or 2 really should be able to shoot

I would agree in general but i think good roll men and offensive rebounders are starting to become underated

We have seen someone like adams have surprisingly strong offensive signals, capela was a key piece in some great offenses, etc

In gobert case you dont need him to shoot 3's when you play 4 perimeter shooter regardless as jazz (a elite offense) did, at that point you need a lob option or a guy who adds value with offensive rebounding more than a 4th spot up shooter

In minnesota you dont really need him to shoot when towns exists and i think with smart coaching you can use gobert well even in possesions where towns posts up or is the roll man (setting off ball screens, waiting in the dunker spot, fishing for rebounds, etc)

The defense has more concerns but i think cleveland or milwaukee are giving the league back the blueprint of how to build with big lineups again for defense

My wildest belief about nba future is that twin towers will return as the new meta again once teams realize that having another center who can protect the rim when your center is being forced to the perimeter helps in so many ways like defensive rebounding and rim protection

even subtle ones like letting the big in the perimeter defend the 3 without worrying so much about being blown by

I actually think minnesota can build a contender with gobert, towns and edwards that is dominant on both ends of the floor, although i would like them to look for better defensive wings or a point of attack guard to replace beverley

[MyUniBroDavis]

That is what i meant, like sure, if gobert had a 3 point shot that would be cool for versatility

But gobert as a good but not great shooter does really move the needle much compared to gobert the offensive rebounder/rolling man?

Like utah offenses were already excellent, how much better are they supposed to be if you switch rebounding and pick and roll plays for a extra 3 point shooter spacing the floor?

Is why i was a bit perplexed by the idea that gobert with a fine 3 point shot becomes the best player in the league.... i think you would need to give him towns shooting at minimum for that to actually be a discussion and maybe not even then

and i am high on gobert but i think peopke overstimate what a good but not great spot up shooting big actually helps compared to good offensive rebounding or solid finishing bigs help

I dont think al horford with gobert defense is the best player in the league for example, and i dont think myles turner is more vakuable offensively than steven adams or clint capela

A stretch 5 enables others to be great, that’s different from being a great talented offensive player, but I think it’s far more valuable in the sense that having two bigs that can’t shoot is tough for an offense, 1 or 2 really should be able to shoot

I would agree in general but i think good roll men and offensive rebounders are starting to become underated

We have seen someone like adams have surprisingly strong offensive signals, capela was a key piece in some great offenses, etc

In gobert case you dont need him to shoot 3's when you play 4 perimeter shooter regardless as jazz (a elite offense) did, at that point you need a lob option or a guy who adds value with offensive rebounding more than a 4th spot up shooter

In minnesota you dont really need him to shoot when towns exists and i think with smart coaching you can use gobert well even in possesions where towns posts up or is the roll man (setting off ball screens, waiting in the dunker spot, fishing for rebounds, etc)

The defense has more concerns but i think cleveland or milwaukee are giving the league back the blueprint of how to build with big lineups again for defense

My wildest belief about nba future is that twin towers will return as the new meta again once teams realize that having another center who can protect the rim when your center is being forced to the perimeter helps in so many ways like defensive rebounding and rim protection

even subtle ones like letting the big in the perimeter defend the 3 without worrying so much about being blown by

I actually think minnesota can build a contender with gobert, towns and edwards that is dominant on both ends of the floor, although i would like them to look for better defensive wings or a point of attack guard to replace beverley

Offensicely

I think we’ve transitioned into three point shooting in general, but there isn’t anything precluding bigs from not being able to shoot, they just have to be able to defend when staying on the level of the ball handler in the o and r when playing a Curry or a Kyrie

I don’t think height is inherently bad, that’s kinda wild that people have shifted to that

[eminence]

I'm glad Ainge seems to be going with the full rebuild. I was fine re-tooling around Rudy/Don, fine trying to re-tool around just Rudy, fine going full tank, but trying to re-build around Don was a nightmare scenario for me, team seemed like it would be doomed to purgatory.

I can bear a few terrible seasons and it's kinda fun to watch the young guys sometimes.

[falcolombardi]

I'm glad Ainge seems to be going with the full rebuild. I was fine re-tooling around Rudy/Don, fine trying to re-tool around just Rudy, fine going full tank, but trying to re-build around Don was a nightmare scenario for me, team seemed like it would be doomed to purgatory.

I can bear a few terrible seasons and it's kinda fun to watch the young guys sometimes.

Mitchell in the knicks would be kinda fun tbh lets see how much he can score in a bad team and the league gets to have a big name in the knicks

[eminence]

I'm glad Ainge seems to be going with the full rebuild. I was fine re-tooling around Rudy/Don, fine trying to re-tool around just Rudy, fine going full tank, but trying to re-build around Don was a nightmare scenario for me, team seemed like it would be doomed to purgatory.

I can bear a few terrible seasons and it's kinda fun to watch the young guys sometimes.

Mitchell in the knicks would be kinda fun tbh lets see how much he can score in a bad team and the league gets to have a big name in the knicks

If they keep RJ I like that pairing pretty well (though the Brunson signing is a bit odd).

[falcolombardi]

I'm glad Ainge seems to be going with the full rebuild. I was fine re-tooling around Rudy/Don, fine trying to re-tool around just Rudy, fine going full tank, but trying to re-build around Don was a nightmare scenario for me, team seemed like it would be doomed to purgatory.

I can bear a few terrible seasons and it's kinda fun to watch the young guys sometimes.

Mitchell in the knicks would be kinda fun tbh lets see how much he can score in a bad team and the league gets to have a big name in the knicks

If they keep RJ I like that pairing pretty well (though the Brunson signing is a bit odd).

Talent is talent, and i dont think brunson is a bad defender....but yeah is a odd fit with mitchell, kinda repeating utah mistakes of multiple small/bad defense players who overlap offensively (even if it works really well) at the sacrifice of defense

[HeartBreakKid]

Going to the Knicks will do a lot for Mitchell's brand. He's quite popular considering he plays for Utah and isn't that great.

Him and Brunson will be fun to watch though there is a lot of room for error. The Knicks will probably do that thing where they make 7th seed, Knicks fans get all up in your face about it, then crash the next season.

[Dr Positivity]

This would be such a Knicks move acting like Mitchell having the 9th highest PPG in the league makes him a top 9 player. Some things never change.

[frica]

Going to the Knicks will do a lot for Mitchell's brand. He's quite popular considering he plays for Utah and isn't that great.

Him and Brunson will be fun to watch though there is a lot of room for error. The Knicks will probably do that thing where they make 7th seed, Knicks fans get all up in your face about it, then crash the next season.

It won't because Hartenstein is better.

[MartinToVaught]

Mitchell to the Knicks feels like the Melo trade all over again. They will give up way too many assets just to move from the treadmill of dysfunction to the treadmill of mediocrity.

Their ceiling might actually be lower than the Melo teams because they're going to have one of the worst defenses in the league.

[Clyde Frazier]

This would be such a Knicks move acting like Mitchell having the 9th highest PPG in the league makes him a top 9 player. Some things never change.

Mitchell to the Knicks feels like the Melo trade all over again. They will give up way too many assets just to move from the treadmill of dysfunction to the treadmill of mediocrity.

Their ceiling might actually be lower than the Melo teams because they're going to have one of the worst defenses in the league.

All i'm gonna say is everything can't be "such a knicks move" just because they're the knicks. They've been through different regimes with different (at times) glaring issues. The leon rose era has largely been risk adverse though. The reason they have so many picks to trade is because they've done a decent job accumulating assets and have rarely traded their own for years.

The brunson deal is fine in 2022 dollars and they also haven't given out "huge contracts to overrated players" for years either. Both brunson and robinson's deals are descending salaries with the cap projected to rise over the next few years.

I won't have an opinion if they make the trade until it happens. I do think a brunson/mitchell backcourt is cause for concern but you'd still have to see what the rest of the roster looks like. They do have great rim protection with robinson/hartenstein/sims. It's pretty clear many will be ready to knock the move if it happens and knock the knicks if "they come up short." I wouldn't call the team dysfunctional either. The players get along quite well.

[sp6r=underrated]

I'm glad Ainge seems to be going with the full rebuild. I was fine re-tooling around Rudy/Don, fine trying to re-tool around just Rudy, fine going full tank, but trying to re-build around Don was a nightmare scenario for me, team seemed like it would be doomed to purgatory.

I can bear a few terrible seasons and it's kinda fun to watch the young guys sometimes.

You switched your logo to Minnesota. Aren't you following the wolves?

This is one of the tough things about a rebuild. Local revenue is significant and drops dramatically during re-builds. The Houston Astros, for non-baseball fans, went on one of the all-time great re-builds over a decade ago. It built a title contender but local interest collapsed for the team during the re-build.

They actually had a game no-one watched: https://www.si.com/mlb/2014/04/09/houston-astros-get-0-0-television-rating

The Hinkie era tankjob resulted in an average season rating of 23k: https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/bp/philadelphia-s--embarrassing--tv-viewership-could-barely-fill-76ers--stadium-220939908.html

Philadelphia and Houston are huge markets. I'm curious how the Jazz will go about making money during the rebuild being that they are in a tiny market.

[eminence]

I'm glad Ainge seems to be going with the full rebuild. I was fine re-tooling around Rudy/Don, fine trying to re-tool around just Rudy, fine going full tank, but trying to re-build around Don was a nightmare scenario for me, team seemed like it would be doomed to purgatory.

I can bear a few terrible seasons and it's kinda fun to watch the young guys sometimes.

You switched your logo to Minnesota. Aren't you following the wolves?

This is one of the tough things about a rebuild. Local revenue is significant and drops dramatically during re-builds. The Houston Astros, for non-baseball fans, went on one of the all-time great re-builds over a decade ago. It built a title contender but local interest collapsed for the team during the re-build.

They actually had a game no-one watched: https://www.si.com/mlb/2014/04/09/houston-astros-get-0-0-television-rating

The Hinkie era tankjob resulted in an average season rating of 23k: https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/bp/philadelphia-s--embarrassing--tv-viewership-could-barely-fill-76ers--stadium-220939908.html

Philadelphia and Houston are huge markets. I'm curious how the Jazz will go about making money during the rebuild being that they are in a tiny market.

I'm also intrigued to see how it goes financially for them.

But I'll be following both squads this season, Wolves will be the only one I'll be cheering for to win though, lol.

[HeartBreakKid]

I'm excited for the next era of the Jazz. This one was stale.

[The High Cyde]

I’m glad the Knicks are going for it, about time there’s some excitement in the Garden. They may not be a top 4 seed but the alternative was mediocrity for the foreseeable future. It’ll be interesting for sure.

[HeartBreakKid]

Knicks kind of messed up already with the Julius Randle contract. If he's not involved in the trade they really capped their potential.

[Texas Chuck]

I won't have an opinion if they make the trade until it happens. I do think a brunson/mitchell backcourt is cause for concern but you'd still have to see what the rest of the roster looks like. They do have great rim protection with robinson/hartenstein/sims. It's pretty clear many will be ready to knock the move if it happens and knock the knicks if "they come up short." I wouldn't call the team dysfunctional either. The players get along quite well.

I mean Dallas started Luka/Brunson and their center was not exactly known for his defense in Powell and they had one of the best defenses in the league the 2nd half of the season. And sure Luka is bigger than Mitchell which helps defensively, but nobody is confusing him for a good defender either.

Thibs is still a great defensive coach. You can scheme around some of it, if Mitchell will at least try. I'd say if the price is something you can live with, get the talent and let your defensive coach figure that end out. Plus defense is sort of the last piece to a contender. Knicks can use their new offensive backcourt to raise them to relevance first.

[falcolombardi]

I find it interesting that jokic, giannis and luka are all gonna be in the eurobasket

Either they will come to the season out of shape from lack of pre-season as it happened to luka last year, physically hurt to start the season or alterbatively will come in tip top shape compared to the rest of the league after a summer of training and competitive basketball

It will be interesting to see

[Statlanta]

I'm glad Ainge seems to be going with the full rebuild. I was fine re-tooling around Rudy/Don, fine trying to re-tool around just Rudy, fine going full tank, but trying to re-build around Don was a nightmare scenario for me, team seemed like it would be doomed to purgatory.

I can bear a few terrible seasons and it's kinda fun to watch the young guys sometimes.

I wanted a retool, I, as a general NBA fan, wanted to see who was at fault for the bad morale(Gobert, Conley, Snyder, O’Neale, Mitchell)

It just feels weird trading a 22 year old star player even if he is rumored to go to other teams after his contract