RRR3 wrote:Heej wrote:RRR3 wrote:Which 10 guys?
I don’t base where I rank Curry off his rings btw
Bron
Jordan
Kareem
Russell
Timmy
Magic
Hakeem
Shaq
All of those are locks imo.
Bird
Wilt
Kobe
West
Baylor
Walton (career likely ends up way different with 2010s medical advancements)
Dr J
This tier either had guys who performed just as well as Steph with comparable teammate and opponent luck or overall got way worse than median outcomes for their careers as far as environment goes while matching Steph in impact.
I look at guys based on EV. Plain and simple. If you simulate someone's career 1000x, over 30 timespans on 30 teams whose career was blessed with above average teammate EV. Steph is one of those guys who (coincidentally like Jordan) has easily experienced a top 10 percentile outcome as far as environment goes (there's easily a Bill Walton-esque timeline out there where he blows his ankles out and never sniffs the top 40).
Honestly Steph might have had the luckiest situation out of anyone on that entire list because of KD (which was responsible for Wiggins). Not to mention his freakish outlier opponent injury luck.
When you're comparing him to all time greats you need to look at the offensive mastery while also understanding he is getting hunted on defense more than ANY of them and has among the worst crunch time decision-making out of all the primary ballhandlers on the list.
Just goes to show how good he is because top 15 is stacked and he's right up there. But people saying top 5 are smoking crack and people saying top 10 lock are getting sucked up in recency bias and doing a poor job contextualizing historical player environments and where their environment ranks relative to baseline environments for all time greats.
Baylor? Seriously? He wasn't a good team player at all. And Walton's peak was amazing but he had 2 elite years, he's not even top 100 in total career value. Don't see how Kobe was better than Curry at all personally. Kobe isn't winning with the 2022 Warriors. Don't think Dr. J or West are either. I can't say Russell was better than Curry due to his offensive issues. I know Curry isn't a great defender but he's also a point guard and not a center. And he is the best offensive player of all time IMO.
Typo from being cracked out at 4 in the.morning. Baylor is definitely meant to be Big O who had below average teammate luck. Kobe was a legitimate 2 way guy who peaked during the toughest defensive time period in NBA history. Every title Curry wins Kobe is winning imo, and that 2015-19 defense is probably GOAT caliber if he replaces Curry
Dr J was proto LeBron from everything I've heard, and we never got to see him in in the NBA in his prime, and West's luck is more akin to LeBron's than Currys. Russell had similar teammate luck to Curry and vastly outperformed him. And I think his size and decision making ultimately holds him back from actually being the best offensive player all time in the playoffs otherwise why hasn't he led GOAT level playoff offenses despite having one of the best aggregate supporting casts ever offered to an all time great?
As I was saying, people calling him a top 10 lock were falling into recency bias. He's a top 15 guy with top 10 arguments. And the ones going top 5 will look even more insane if Lakers close this out.
