(LOCK THREAD) The LeBron James - 22-23 NBA Season Thread -NBA's All-Time Scoring Leader!

[Slava]

Lakers somehow have a positive point differential at home, even if they dropped a couple and shot outlier level garbage. I don't know how much the results can improve from now and obviously it depends a lot on the health and continuity of Davis but not everything is as rotten as last season.

[thebigbird]

LeBron can’t play defense though according to the casuals.

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[AEnigma]

This would make sense if every Blackman in NBA is hated as much as him.

Why jump to racism when there is other logical reason?

Like being the best at the sport for over a decade? Being compared to MJ as GOAT? Jumping from team to team and creating super teams?

Claiming everything that happens in the world is because of racism just doesn't help anything

MJ was beloved in 80s, 90s and the world was more racist back then.

Just think for a second before u post anything

Yes, famously outspoken Michael Jordan.

I wonder, which group do you feel was more beloved by white NBA audiences at large? Magic Johnson and Wilt Chamberlain, or Kareem and Bill Russell? Who was preferred by those demographics, the racially demure and magnanimous Wes Unseld and Willis Reed, or the more confrontational or “standoffish” Earl Monroe, Elvin Hayes, and Walt Frazier? And that is without looking at the downright hostile treatment of Warren Jabali and Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf, who went too far beyond the bar of… pointing out obvious systemic racial inequities.

You could be black and beloved among those audiences, but only so far as you never challenge dominant positions. Lebron is hardly a revolutionary, but he is willing to take positions unpopular with white audiences more than Jordan ever cared to. Even something as basic as acknowledging the challenges of growing up in a single-parent household can sometimes be too much and garner those ever so funny father figure attacks… Or in this case, “fight against racists using the n-word.”

You need to take off your lens that looks at the world through race.

“Please stop looking at reality, it makes me uncomfortable.”

Some people just have the ability to carry themselves with certain humility and have a likeable trait that seems to just resonate with more people.

Yeah when I think about humility, I think about Michael Jordan.

This is not unique to the west, this happens in every country and culture. Can we also use the race card for any of the hated non black athletes? It's just so ignorant.

“The race card” oh no, anything but that!

Look at the obvious reasons before jumping into the race card.

Racial attitudes are obvious reasons, you just refuse it see them. Perhaps because you feel unaffected, or perhaps just because you want there to be no effect, but whatever the reason, says a lot that you can read people raging at Lebron for speaking out against racialised language and immediately think, “Ah, yes, this is because of The Decision.”

[mysticOscar]

Yes, famously outspoken Michael Jordan.

I wonder, which group do you feel was more beloved by white NBA audiences at large? Magic Johnson and Wilt Chamberlain, or Kareem and Bill Russell? Who was preferred by those demographics, the racially demure and magnanimous Wes Unseld and Willis Reed, or the more confrontational or “standoffish” Earl Monroe, Elvin Hayes, and Walt Frazier? And that is without looking at the downright hostile treatment of Warren Jabali and Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf, who went too far beyond the bar of… pointing out obvious systemic racial inequities.

You could be black and beloved among those audiences, but only so far as you never challenge dominant positions. Lebron is hardly a revolutionary, but he is willing to take positions unpopular with white audiences more than Jordan ever cared to. Even something as basic as acknowledging the challenges of growing up in a single-parent household can sometimes be too much and garner those ever so funny father figure attacks… Or in this case, “fight against racists using the n-word.”

You need to take off your lens that looks at the world through race.

“Please stop looking at reality, it makes me uncomfortable.”

Some people just have the ability to carry themselves with certain humility and have a likeable trait that seems to just resonate with more people.

Yeah when I think about humility, I think about Michael Jordan.

This is not unique to the west, this happens in every country and culture. Can we also use the race card for any of the hated non black athletes? It's just so ignorant.

“The race card” oh no, anything but that!

Look at the obvious reasons before jumping into the race card.

Racial attitudes are obvious reasons, you just refuse it see them. Perhaps because you feel unaffected, or perhaps just because you want there to be no effect, but whatever the reason, says a lot that you can read people raging at Lebron for speaking out against racialised language and immediately think, “Ah, yes, this is because of The Decision.”

This is my last reply on this topic since this is off tangent to the purpose of this thread.

You can keep looking at the world with your twisted lens, but u will find that it will do nothing but fill you with resentment and create an caricature of the real problems that is going in the world.

To use a future Billionaire who is adored by millions of people as an example of racism because he got some slack by speaking out on political hot buttons (but dodged the human right violations in china) to prove ur political point is just ignorant.

[thebigbird]

Just make the freaking trade already. We saw last night what the Lakers can look like with decent shooting. Who gives a crap about a 2029 pick when you’re trying to win now? That kid is a middle schooler right now.

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[AEnigma]

This is my last reply on this topic since this is off tangent to the purpose of this thread.

You can keep looking at the world with your twisted lens, but u will find that it will do nothing but fill you with resentment and create an caricature of the real problems that is going in the world.

To use a future Billionaire who is adored by millions of people as an example of racism because he got some slack by speaking out on political hot buttons (but dodged the human right violations in china) to prove ur political point is just ignorant.

Love how the n-word is a hot button political issue now!

I wonder why African Americans are consistently so much more concerned with the treatment of African Americans in the United States than they are with protests over extradition laws in Hong Kong. An eternal mystery, one with which I am sure you are deeply invested and not just using as a disingenuous dodge of real internal issues the United States has never cared to address and you personally do not care whether they ever address.

My enemies are white people, not Vietcong or Chinese or Japanese. You my opposer when I want freedom, you my opposer when I want justice, you my opposer when I want equality. You won't even stand up for me in America for my religious beliefs, and you want me to go somewhere and fight, but you won't even stand up for me here at home.

But he was probably not hated for any racial reasons either, right.

[NbaAllDay]

LeBron James, as we all know, played ages 19-22, right out of high school.

During those years, he racked up 8,439 points, 2,102 rebounds, and 2,033 assists.

Players were not able to be drafted out of high school until a 1971 Supreme Court Case (Haywood vs. NBA) changed that law.

Kareem came up during his age 22 season after playing 3 years in college. Give him his ages 19-21 seasons, very conservatively averaging 25 ppg, 12 rpg, and 3 apg. (He averaged 28.8/14.5/4.1 his Rookie Year and 31.5/15.7/4.0 his first three years).

--Kareem could have racked up ~44,000 points, ~20,000 rebounds, and ~6,400 assists.

And that's just in the regular season. Forget about playoffs totals and records.

How would this change how we're perceiving this record being broken?

How would this change how we would rank and feel about KAJ? Give him three extra years in his physical prime....

Just some food for thought.

Lebron has 7.6k playoff points, Kareem has 5.7k, so the forget about playoff points argument is weird

Also three years of west and tear in the nba is different of course

Pretty much this. There is this weird additive measure by which people add years for x reasons and assume everything will play out as it was + the bonus points.

It's the same with the people who just assume Jordan playing those 2 extra years in 94-96 = 8 rings straight.

Anyone with any sense understands it's never that simple, and in fact likely very different.

[Slava]

Just make the freaking trade already. We saw last night what the Lakers can look like with decent shooting. Who gives a crap about a 2029 pick when you’re trying to win now? That kid is a middle schooler right now.

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I don't think even the Lakers are banking on making those picks. The issue like Pelinka said very clearly is that, if you spend them, then you don't have a future pick to trade until 2024. If they do it, sign both Turner and Hield to extensions and maybe offer one for Beverley too, then the team is Turner - AD - LeBron - Hield - Bev with Reaves, if they manage to keep him, off the bench for the next two seasons and foreseeable end of LeBron's career. If LeBron thinks that is a title winning team, that deal would be done already.

[Clyde Frazier]

This is my last reply on this topic since this is off tangent to the purpose of this thread.

You can keep looking at the world with your twisted lens, but u will find that it will do nothing but fill you with resentment and create an caricature of the real problems that is going in the world.

To use a future Billionaire who is adored by millions of people as an example of racism because he got some slack by speaking out on political hot buttons (but dodged the human right violations in china) to prove ur political point is just ignorant.

Love how the n-word is a hot button political issue now!

I wonder why African Americans are consistently so much more concerned with the treatment of African Americans in the United States than they are with protests over extradition laws in Hong Kong. An eternal mystery, one with which I am sure you are deeply invested and not just using as a disingenuous dodge of real internal issues the United States has never cared to address and you personally do not care whether they ever address.

My enemies are white people, not Vietcong or Chinese or Japanese. You my opposer when I want freedom, you my opposer when I want justice, you my opposer when I want equality. You won't even stand up for me in America for my religious beliefs, and you want me to go somewhere and fight, but you won't even stand up for me here at home.

But he was probably not hated for any racial reasons either, right.

PSA TO ALL

Move any political discussion to the Current Affairs board: viewforum.php?f=69

It goes without saying, but stay on the topic of basketball only here.

[Joao Saraiva]

Saw their game vs Minnesota. It's clear the team is trying, and I was actually surprised by their defense.

In the right position, rotating well, players were active... offense was just atrocious with no spacing.

Against Denver they found hot hands to open the court. That allowed LeBron, AD and Westbrook to attack the paint. That's what it takes for them to be successfull. They won't hit 40+ from 3 every game, but as long as the opponent is respecting their outside shot they will definitely do well.

Props to Ham who has a 1st page thread in the GB saying he's garbage. He was able to find nice rotations and put em up defensively. Let's see how it all turns out, but so far Ham is doing a good job the way I see it.

More important, I think Ham found a way to make Westbrook commit to a bench role. Thought it was impossible but I so far it seems like Westbrook will accept it. There is life in the Lakers.

[kayess]

LeBron can’t play defense though according to the casuals.

Read on Twitter

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I'm not sure what's more impressive - the defense on an all-timer, or how impossibly potato this vid quality is.

[zimpy27]

Lakers somehow have a positive point differential at home, even if they dropped a couple and shot outlier level garbage. I don't know how much the results can improve from now and obviously it depends a lot on the health and continuity of Davis but not everything is as rotten as last season.

Lakers are going to have a strong November. Think they go 9-5 and end up at .500 by December 1st

[thebigbird]

LeBron can’t play defense though according to the casuals.

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=vRrg6rS141Uc0EhURctoeA

I'm not sure what's more impressive - the defense on an all-timer, or how impossibly potato this vid quality is.

Lmaoo. At the time it was the only video I could find on Twitter.

Sure it’s only one possession, but I think a lot of people (myself included) don’t pay much attention to off ball defense. It’s easy to just miss a defensive play like that. LeBron can’t do that every possession because he’s nearly 38 years old. But he’s more than capable of playing excellent defense in spurts. A competent front office would have put a team around LeBron that lets him coast. On this team it’s harder because he’s basically their only wing and also needs to score 25+ ppg plus distribute the basketball.

[zimpy27]

What do we think of Brown Jr?

[Djoker]

LeBron James, as we all know, played ages 19-22, right out of high school.

During those years, he racked up 8,439 points, 2,102 rebounds, and 2,033 assists.

Players were not able to be drafted out of high school until a 1971 Supreme Court Case (Haywood vs. NBA) changed that law.

Kareem came up during his age 22 season after playing 3 years in college. Give him his ages 19-21 seasons, very conservatively averaging 25 ppg, 12 rpg, and 3 apg. (He averaged 28.8/14.5/4.1 his Rookie Year and 31.5/15.7/4.0 his first three years).

--Kareem could have racked up ~44,000 points, ~20,000 rebounds, and ~6,400 assists.

And that's just in the regular season. Forget about playoffs totals and records.

How would this change how we're perceiving this record being broken?

How would this change how we would rank and feel about KAJ? Give him three extra years in his physical prime....

Just some food for thought.

Lebron has 7.6k playoff points, Kareem has 5.7k, so the forget about playoff points argument is weird

Also three years of west and tear in the nba is different of course

Lebron also played something like double the number of playoff games until age 35. Kareem doesn't have the the most playoff points because in the 70's and early 80's it was 3 playoff rounds instead of 4 as it is now and because he was stuck on putrid rosters that couldn't make deep runs. Kareem has a higher playoff PPG comparing their primes.

And it's been shown that it's age, not mileage, that is the primary driver of decline. Other legends that came straight out of high school including Kobe, Garnett, Moses etc. didn't really decline any earlier than those who went to college despite extra wear and tear from NBA seasons.

Therefore saying that Kareem if he came to the NBA straight out of high school would have had 44k+ points isn't unreasonable at all. IMO it's highly probable.

[Joao Saraiva]

What do we think of Brown Jr?

We think the same of all lakers role players right now. They can get hot from 3 they're useful, as long as they're not veeeery negative defenders.

[Joao Saraiva]

Yes, famously outspoken Michael Jordan.

I wonder, which group do you feel was more beloved by white NBA audiences at large? Magic Johnson and Wilt Chamberlain, or Kareem and Bill Russell? Who was preferred by those demographics, the racially demure and magnanimous Wes Unseld and Willis Reed, or the more confrontational or “standoffish” Earl Monroe, Elvin Hayes, and Walt Frazier? And that is without looking at the downright hostile treatment of Warren Jabali and Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf, who went too far beyond the bar of… pointing out obvious systemic racial inequities.

You could be black and beloved among those audiences, but only so far as you never challenge dominant positions. Lebron is hardly a revolutionary, but he is willing to take positions unpopular with white audiences more than Jordan ever cared to. Even something as basic as acknowledging the challenges of growing up in a single-parent household can sometimes be too much and garner those ever so funny father figure attacks… Or in this case, “fight against racists using the n-word.”

You need to take off your lens that looks at the world through race.

“Please stop looking at reality, it makes me uncomfortable.”

Some people just have the ability to carry themselves with certain humility and have a likeable trait that seems to just resonate with more people.

Yeah when I think about humility, I think about Michael Jordan.

This is not unique to the west, this happens in every country and culture. Can we also use the race card for any of the hated non black athletes? It's just so ignorant.

“The race card” oh no, anything but that!

Look at the obvious reasons before jumping into the race card.

Racial attitudes are obvious reasons, you just refuse it see them. Perhaps because you feel unaffected, or perhaps just because you want there to be no effect, but whatever the reason, says a lot that you can read people raging at Lebron for speaking out against racialised language and immediately think, “Ah, yes, this is because of The Decision.”

I'm "white" - at least in my country since I live in Portugal, I'm not that white for english people for example - and I like LeBron a lot, was a big fan of Allen Iverson and many of my idols music wise are black or even in soccer (Liedson for example, I was a big fan of his for a looong time).

I don't believe LeBron is hated mostly because he's black. Most of his haters are actually fans of either MJ or Kobe.

I think it is more of people seeing LeBron as a threat to their favorite superstars and not wanting to acknowledge that he even has a case for being over them. Against Kobe that is a train that is long gone but his fans keep detracting LBJ like it can up Kobe's legacy. About MJ... I can understand they want to protect their guys' legacy, but LBJ having a case doesn't mean he''s better. It's just that, a case, but people go waaaay out trying to discredit LBJ.

I also like KAJ, Wilt and Oscar and am interested in always learning more about them. Just can't relate to them as much cause I didn't live that moment.

[thebigbird]

Just make the freaking trade already. We saw last night what the Lakers can look like with decent shooting. Who gives a crap about a 2029 pick when you’re trying to win now? That kid is a middle schooler right now.

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=vRrg6rS141Uc0EhURctoeA

I don't think even the Lakers are banking on making those picks. The issue like Pelinka said very clearly is that, if you spend them, then you don't have a future pick to trade until 2024. If they do it, sign both Turner and Hield to extensions and maybe offer one for Beverley too, then the team is Turner - AD - LeBron - Hield - Bev with Reaves, if they manage to keep him, off the bench for the next two seasons and foreseeable end of LeBron's career. If LeBron thinks that is a title winning team, that deal would be done already.

We definitely disagree regarding how much sway LeBron has with the Lakers’ FO right now.

Does adding Turner/Hield make this team a title contender? Hard to say. Maybe not, but it definitely makes them a playoff team. And anything can happen if you get to the playoffs with a healthy LeBron/AD (though you probably would have to sit AD all season to have him healthy come playoff time). Looking at the West, I don’t see any truly insurmountable teams. I think LeBron and AD matchup well against the Warriors. Who knows what’s going on with LAC. Kawhi played 42 minutes over two games and hasn’t played since. The Suns have never really impressed me.

I love the Indy trade because Hield and Turner bring exactly what this team needs. Hield is sitting at 45% from 3 on 9.3 attempts per game, and Turner is a good defending big who can also stretch the floor, which keeps AD from having to play the 5. And then there’s the added bonus or addition by subtraction from losing Westbrook.

[MyUniBroDavis]

LeBron James, as we all know, played ages 19-22, right out of high school.

During those years, he racked up 8,439 points, 2,102 rebounds, and 2,033 assists.

Players were not able to be drafted out of high school until a 1971 Supreme Court Case (Haywood vs. NBA) changed that law.

Kareem came up during his age 22 season after playing 3 years in college. Give him his ages 19-21 seasons, very conservatively averaging 25 ppg, 12 rpg, and 3 apg. (He averaged 28.8/14.5/4.1 his Rookie Year and 31.5/15.7/4.0 his first three years).

--Kareem could have racked up ~44,000 points, ~20,000 rebounds, and ~6,400 assists.

And that's just in the regular season. Forget about playoffs totals and records.

How would this change how we're perceiving this record being broken?

How would this change how we would rank and feel about KAJ? Give him three extra years in his physical prime....

Just some food for thought.

Lebron has 7.6k playoff points, Kareem has 5.7k, so the forget about playoff points argument is weird

Also three years of west and tear in the nba is different of course

Lebron also played something like double the number of playoff games until age 35. Kareem doesn't have the the most playoff points because in the 70's and early 80's it was 3 playoff rounds instead of 4 as it is now and because he was stuck on putrid rosters that couldn't make deep runs. Kareem has a higher playoff PPG comparing their primes.

And it's been shown that it's age, not mileage, that is the primary driver of decline. Other legends that came straight out of high school including Kobe, Garnett, Moses etc. didn't really decline any earlier than those who went to college despite extra wear and tear from NBA seasons.

Therefore saying that Kareem if he came to the NBA straight out of high school would have had 44k+ points isn't unreasonable at all. IMO it's highly probable.

It’s been shown =/= a few examples, and we’re talking about coming out 4 years in the 70s not a year early like a lot of guys that’d prolly be one and done

Mileage is a thing I’m pretty sure that’s a medical fact, that wouldn’t be helped by lower medical standards back then as well

[thebigbird]

If Kareem comes out 4 years earlier, there’s a big chance he doesn’t get to play the second half of his career with the best point guard of all time, which would have a fairly big impact on his point total. Pretending that you can just keep everything else the way that it is but tack on 4 extra seasons’ worth of points is just silly. It doesn’t work like that.