2021-22 RealGM All-Season Awards - Discussion Thread

[Jaivl]

Tatum's latest games made it quite easier. My top 5, if I end up voting, is going to be

Jokic > Giannis > Curry > Embiid > Butler

[TheGOATRises007]

Can't remember who it was(forgive me), but I think someone here made a very good point.

The Warriors this season had the best defense(or 2nd best) with Curry playing a role in it. He's no longer a weak defender or even neutral. I'd venture he grades out as a low positive in that end. And I think the Warriors rDRTG in the playoffs was pretty good.

Can Jokic ever get to that point?

Don't think I participated enough to have a vote, but I still have a very hard time knocking Jokic off 1st even though I thought Curry was sensational in the finals. It's splitting hairs. I do think Curry exerted far more effort on defense this season which led to a decrease in offensive production for most of the RS.

My tentative top 5 would be: Curry > Jokic > Giannis > Embiid > Butler

[The-Power]

It's going to be a tough decision at the top. Jokic, but also Giannis, have been better for the season up until the point they were eliminated and that matters. But it's so tough to win four series in the playoffs as the main guy and deliver the way Curry did – and that has count.

In other words, nothing can be taken away from Jokic and Giannis. They did all they could do, and had the season ended in May, they would have been obvious choices ahead of Curry. But you have to factor in that Curry was asked to deliver so much deeper into the playoffs when it mattered most and he did just that in an exceptional fashion, and that makes this such a difficult comparison.

[jalengreen]

DPOY thoughts? would robert williams on the ballot be strange? always viewed him as the celtics DPOY over smart, and what a series from him. draymond will be up there for me too, lot of missed time but was the best defender IMO when healthy. and gobert is still great

[cpower]

i had Jokic>Embiid>Curry>Giannis>Tatum in RS and Curry> Butler>Jokic>Luka >Giannis in PS

close one but i would have Curry > Jokic > Giannis > Embiid > Butler

shout out to Chef's g4. one of the most important games in NBA history

[TheGOATRises007]

DPOY thoughts? would robert williams on the ballot be strange? always viewed him as the celtics DPOY over smart, and what a series from him. draymond will be up there for me too, lot of missed time but was the best defender IMO when healthy. and gobert is still great

Well, it's definitely not Smart

I think Draymond was sensational defensively the past 3 games, but I think his playoffs before then were a regression from his previous runs(I might be wrong) in terms of defense.

It'd be an interesting discussion. I think Draymond was the best defender in the RS when healthy, but I'm unsure about his overall defense during the playoffs. Excellent to close the finals though.

[jalengreen]

as for POY.. i think my initial thoughts are

1. jokic 2. curry 3. giannis 4. embiid 5. tatum

jokic is to me clearly the best offensive player in the game. the way he raises the floor of an offense to be able to win as many games as the nuggets did despite the % of cap hit that was injured is just ridiculously impressive. his playoff defense was poor, but one series of poor defense (in a very unfriendly matchup) isnt enough to shake off a regular season where i was impressed by his defensive impact.

giannis vs curry for #2… i think giannis is the best player in basketball but i was not *that* high on his regular season so as to make the deficit too difficult for curry to make up in the playoffs. i think he was able to do so with his best playoff series ever coming in a finals W. i do think winning a ring should give you a POY boost too

embiid #4 for sure.. very strong regular season, not a great postseason which limits him from entering the top 3 but definitely wouldnt put anyone else over him

5 is my most likely to change. luka and butler are both options here. butler had the worst reg ssn imo but an absolutely iconic postseason. cant overstate how impressive butler was in the playoffs. but tatum was also very impressive to me in the regular season and has a huge games played advantage. and while his postseason was nothing too impressive, it had some notable high points prior to the disastrous finals series. i dunno i’ll reconsider this, i think he has a significant RS advantage over butler though.

[The-Power]

Tatum is an interesting case to debate how to evaluate postseason runs compared to players that exited the playoffs earlier. If we won't hold it against a player to ‘only’ play, let's say, two series then it feels wrong to knock Tatum down for his Finals performance after good prior series. At the same time, you can't, of course, completely disregard important games that were actually played.

I'm not sure I have Tatum in my top 5 but I'm inclined to place much more emphasis on his playoff run prior to the Finals as one bad series – even if the most prestigious one – at the end of a long playoff run isn't something disqualifying. It could have happened to Giannis, Jokic, Doncic etc. as well – we just don't know because they never had to play in that fourth (or even second or third) series.

[Dutchball97]

The top 3 seems clear but the group after that is a bit of a mess really. In terms of regular seasons its Embiid > Tatum > Luka > Butler and for the play-offs it was pretty much the complete opposite. I think I'm most impressed by Luka among this group as he had a definite top 10 regular season (arguably top 5) unlike Butler and delivered in the play-offs unlike Embiid and Tatum.

[LukaTheGOAT]

Tatum's latest games made it quite easier. My top 5, if I end up voting, is going to be

Jokic > Giannis > Curry > Embiid > Butler

Do you think Tatum's ending was much worse than say Embiid's ending against Miami?

[Jaivl]

Tatum's latest games made it quite easier. My top 5, if I end up voting, is going to be

Jokic > Giannis > Curry > Embiid > Butler

Doy you think Tatum's ending was much worse than say Embiid's ending against Miami?

No, but I didn't think his previous play was as good as Embiid's either.

[ardee]

Tatum probably isn't going to make my top 5. Insanely up and down Playoffs even before the Finals... and in this series itself he was just bad.

I will likely go Jokic > Curry > Giannis > Embiid > Luka.

[eminence]

I think Tatum vs Giannis for #3 is the last main ballot decision I have to make.

[Colbinii]

Tatum is an interesting case to debate how to evaluate postseason runs compared to players that exited the playoffs earlier. If we won't hold it against a player to ‘only’ play, let's say, two series then it feels wrong to knock Tatum down for his Finals performance after good prior series. At the same time, you can't, of course, completely disregard important games that were actually played.

I'm not sure I have Tatum in my top 5 but I'm inclined to place much more emphasis on his playoff run prior to the Finals as one bad series – even if the most prestigious one – at the end of a long playoff run isn't something disqualifying. It could have happened to Giannis, Jokic, Doncic etc. as well – we just don't know because they never had to play in that fourth (or even second or third) series.

I feel like if you have Curry 1st then you need to have Tatum in your top 5 due to team success being a part of your evaluation.

[eminence]

Currently leaning towards:
1. Steph
2. Jokic
3. Tatum
4. Giannis
5. Luka

[Dutchball97]

Tatum is an interesting case to debate how to evaluate postseason runs compared to players that exited the playoffs earlier. If we won't hold it against a player to ‘only’ play, let's say, two series then it feels wrong to knock Tatum down for his Finals performance after good prior series. At the same time, you can't, of course, completely disregard important games that were actually played.

I'm not sure I have Tatum in my top 5 but I'm inclined to place much more emphasis on his playoff run prior to the Finals as one bad series – even if the most prestigious one – at the end of a long playoff run isn't something disqualifying. It could have happened to Giannis, Jokic, Doncic etc. as well – we just don't know because they never had to play in that fourth (or even second or third) series.

I feel like if you have Curry 1st then you need to have Tatum in your top 5 due to team success being a part of your evaluation.

As someone who is currently leaning towards Curry at #1 and Tatum as a honorable mention I view it a bit differently. Getting deeper into the play-offs presents an opportunity for players to add to their case. Curry took advantage of that opportunity, Tatum not so much.

[The-Power]

Tatum is an interesting case to debate how to evaluate postseason runs compared to players that exited the playoffs earlier. If we won't hold it against a player to ‘only’ play, let's say, two series then it feels wrong to knock Tatum down for his Finals performance after good prior series. At the same time, you can't, of course, completely disregard important games that were actually played.

I'm not sure I have Tatum in my top 5 but I'm inclined to place much more emphasis on his playoff run prior to the Finals as one bad series – even if the most prestigious one – at the end of a long playoff run isn't something disqualifying. It could have happened to Giannis, Jokic, Doncic etc. as well – we just don't know because they never had to play in that fourth (or even second or third) series.

I feel like if you have Curry 1st then you need to have Tatum in your top 5 due to team success being a part of your evaluation.

I personally am not sure I have Curry 1st or Tatum top 5 at this point, but I think both are definitely possibilities. Not sure if one should necessarily determine the other, though. I assume we all look at team success at least to some extent, but despite some philosophical similarities, I think the cases for Curry and Tatum are quite different.

With Tatum, the question is how much can you hold performances later in the playoffs against him when all of his competitors haven't even made it this far – or is his excellent RS and the stronger early playoff performance the only really relevant aspect for the evaluation against players with earlier exits?

With Curry, it's about how far a player should be able to jump in the rankings based on elite performances in the most meaningful games of the season, when his competitors had clearly better RS and also played well in the playoffs, but never had to sustain greatness in an extended run and therefore cannot simply be assumed to be able to have done it.

In both cases, it's about the value placed on late-playoff games but the baselines are different and the direction is actually opposite.

[The-Power]

Currently leaning towards:
1. Steph
2. Jokic
3. Tatum
4. Giannis
5. Luka

Those may be my top 5 as well (not necessarily in that order, though) but it's not clear to me yet. How far off do you have Embiid? I suppose Butler is another candidate but my first impulse is also to leave him off despite the impressive playoff run.

[eminence]

Currently leaning towards:
1. Steph
2. Jokic
3. Tatum
4. Giannis
5. Luka

Those may be my top 5 as well (not necessarily in that order, though) but it's not clear to me yet. How far off do you have Embiid? I suppose Butler is another candidate but my first impulse is also to leave him off despite the impressive playoff run.

That pair would be my HMs for sure (probably Gobert in line for 8th, maybe KD or KAT, and that'd probably round out my top 10 but pretty distant regardless). If one heavily weights RS they should probably go Embiid for that 5th spot, but his POs wound up pretty underwhelming (due to injury). I wound up overall less impressed with Butlers PO run than most seem to be, it had very high highs, but low lows as well, and to me I'm not sure its really cleanly better than anyone else seriously discussed other than Embiid. And with his RS it really needed to be. I do think he still has a decent case for #5, but no serious case over my top 4.

I've also found I've been higher on Curry and Tatum during the RS than most seemed to be (I think I'd go Tatum #2 for the RS, Giannis/Curry/Embiid a fairly close 3-5, Jokic a pretty clear #1 though slightly lower than the GOAT tier peak some seem to have it as).

[Doctor MJ]

Hey y'all,

I'll get the Voting thread up this weekend, and will intend to have it be open for one week before I tally the results.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Cheers,
Doc