2021-22 NBA Season Discussion

[Doctor MJ]

We really should go back to 1970s officiating and that's not sarcastic post.

It would be an improvement over what we have no certainly.

I think though that there's no way to just tell the refs "Officiate like it's the '70s" because they've been trained to become what they've become.

But we could start by just micromanaging the refs less.

Beyond that, I think it's clear that "points of emphasis" are band-aids that fall off, that the logic that gets used in instant replay often creates a less logical outcome than what the refs give in the moment, and that we cannot expect refs to see everything that happens in the moment.

Knowing what we know, what are we trying to optimize for?, and how can we realistically incentivize that?

[falcolombardi]

Read on Twitter

I know it's a blown call and all, but I find myself thinking more and more that the NBA needs to be specifically thinking hard about how best to officiate Giannis. He's not the first guy like this - it does tend to happen when talking about physical outliers - but at the very least, they need to disincentive him from launching himself directly into opposing players at full force.

The play that injured Williams, if you showed it to someone who knew nothing about basketball, they'd say the foul should be on the guy who injured the other guy by proactively choosing to assault the injured guy. We basketball people look like fools when we tie ourselves in pretzels explaining why the offensive player can strategically hurt defenders unless the the defenders are in "legal guarding position".

i think is a lot trickier than that, a offwnsive player after all has the right to his movement and so does the defensive player

and because in basketball generally everyone is moving it becomes tricky to deternine who is at fault for the collision

[70sFan]

We really should go back to 1970s officiating and that's not sarcastic post.

It would be an improvement over what we have no certainly.

I think though that there's no way to just tell the refs "Officiate like it's the '70s" because they've been trained to become what they've become.

But we could start by just micromanaging the refs less.

Beyond that, I think it's clear that "points of emphasis" are band-aids that fall off, that the logic that gets used in instant replay often creates a less logical outcome than what the refs give in the moment, and that we cannot expect refs to see everything that happens in the moment.

Knowing what we know, what are we trying to optimize for?, and how can we realistically incentivize that?

Yeah, it's just my wishfull thinking. It is not possible to say a referee in 2022 to call the game like in 1970s. Way too much time spent on learning how to look at the game.

It's the same reason why younger fans don't see traveling during double step backs anymore, except the impact on refs is much bigger.

How to change that? I don't know, it is extremely hard problem to solve. I will say one thing - I see a lot more moving screens calls these playoffs compared to last few years. Refs pay more attention to that and I'm actually very surprised how big of a shift it is. The start to call more and more offensive fouls as well (except with Giannis, who can't be fouled out by charges ). Maybe we will see more traveling calls at some point in the future, who knows?

[eminence]

I don't think you'd have to go back so far as all that. I quite liked the reffing of the late 00s through early 10s.

[Doctor MJ]

Read on Twitter

I know it's a blown call and all, but I find myself thinking more and more that the NBA needs to be specifically thinking hard about how best to officiate Giannis. He's not the first guy like this - it does tend to happen when talking about physical outliers - but at the very least, they need to disincentive him from launching himself directly into opposing players at full force.

The play that injured Williams, if you showed it to someone who knew nothing about basketball, they'd say the foul should be on the guy who injured the other guy by proactively choosing to assault the injured guy. We basketball people look like fools when we tie ourselves in pretzels explaining why the offensive player can strategically hurt defenders unless the the defenders are in "legal guarding position".

i think is a lot trickier than that, a offwnsive player after all has the right to his movement and so does the defensive player

and because in basketball generally everyone is moving it becomes tricky to deternine who is at fault for the collision

In the moment you can't expect referees to see everything perfectly, but when you step back you have to think about what each player is doing and whether you want that to be something players do.

Giannis is hurting people with his approach. Full stop. He's physically injuring people. Is this something that's okay?

If not, then you do something about it. I'm not going to claim to know the perfect way to handle it, but we've got video, and we can have rules for reviewing plays for movement that appears to initiate violent contact.

And I'll say what I often say:

You don't need to get every call about a player's intention right to incentivize the right intention. If you penalize me enough for not actually looking to go around players rather than through them, I'm going to look to avoid going through them harder.

[Doctor MJ]

I don't think you'd have to go back so far as all that. I quite liked the reffing of the late 00s through early 10s.

Ah well, in general if you just want "better", you just have to go back in time one day, because day-by-day, the officiating is eroding due to the same force that's been eroding it for a long time:

- Pressure from surrounding - fans, players, coaches.
- Consequences of calling an egregious foul a non-foul because you think he's flopping.
- Consequences of making a wrong call at a critical moment.

And the big one:

Players & coaches realizing all this and exploiting it more and more systematically.

We need to cut the feedback loop the NBA is letting its officiating get distorted by.

[70sFan]

I don't think you'd have to go back so far as all that. I quite liked the reffing of the late 00s through early 10s.

By this point refs stopped using fundamental approach and it was just a matter of time when basketball would erode to the state we have today. 2000s refs had it far easier, because players were worse at pushing the new "rules" to the limit.

1970s refs would simply call it bullsh*t, but 2000s refs were ready to give the benefit of doubt in many situations.

[falcolombardi]

I know it's a blown call and all, but I find myself thinking more and more that the NBA needs to be specifically thinking hard about how best to officiate Giannis. He's not the first guy like this - it does tend to happen when talking about physical outliers - but at the very least, they need to disincentive him from launching himself directly into opposing players at full force.

The play that injured Williams, if you showed it to someone who knew nothing about basketball, they'd say the foul should be on the guy who injured the other guy by proactively choosing to assault the injured guy. We basketball people look like fools when we tie ourselves in pretzels explaining why the offensive player can strategically hurt defenders unless the the defenders are in "legal guarding position".

i think is a lot trickier than that, a offwnsive player after all has the right to his movement and so does the defensive player

and because in basketball generally everyone is moving it becomes tricky to deternine who is at fault for the collision

In the moment you can't expect referees to see everything perfectly, but when you step back you have to think about what each player is doing and whether you want that to be something players do.

Giannis is hurting people with his approach. Full stop. He's physically injuring people. Is this something that's okay?

If not, then you do something about it. I'm not going to claim to know the perfect way to handle it, but we've got video, and we can have rules for reviewing plays for movement that appears to initiate violent contact.

And I'll say what I often say:

You don't need to get every call about a player's intention right to incentivize the right intention. If you penalize me enough for not actually looking to go around players rather than through them, I'm going to look to avoid going through them harder.

i think more no-calls may help

if giannis crashes into a defender and you are not sure if it was a offensive or defensive foul, a no call that creates a loose ball is a preferable and somewhat fairer outcome to potentially rewarding giannis for barreling into someone with free throws

of course tjis doesnt mean not calling offensive fouls on gianmis when deserved

in general no calls are underused, if you are not sure a crash or a play with a ton of contact was a foul, not calling anythingh is a valid option

[jalengreen]

cmon thats an offensive foul on giannis lol

[falcolombardi]

jrue in the dunker spot with giannis posting up is a unorthodox but surprisingly effective tactic

it doesnt crowd the paint as much as a big would and means that boston is put in an awkeard position with who to guard jrue with

[jalengreen]

bucks defense has been stifling. the celtics have one FG inside the 3pt line with 1:30 left in the 1st q.

[Fadeaway_J]

i think is a lot trickier than that, a offwnsive player after all has the right to his movement and so does the defensive player

and because in basketball generally everyone is moving it becomes tricky to deternine who is at fault for the collision

In the moment you can't expect referees to see everything perfectly, but when you step back you have to think about what each player is doing and whether you want that to be something players do.

Giannis is hurting people with his approach. Full stop. He's physically injuring people. Is this something that's okay?

If not, then you do something about it. I'm not going to claim to know the perfect way to handle it, but we've got video, and we can have rules for reviewing plays for movement that appears to initiate violent contact.

And I'll say what I often say:

You don't need to get every call about a player's intention right to incentivize the right intention. If you penalize me enough for not actually looking to go around players rather than through them, I'm going to look to avoid going through them harder.

i think more no-calls may help

if giannis crashes into a defender and you are not sure if it was a offensive or defensive foul, a no call that creates a loose ball is a preferable and somewhat fairer outcome to potentially rewarding giannis for barreling into someone with free throws

of course tjis doesnt mean not calling offensive fouls on gianmis when deserved

in general no calls are underused, if you are not sure a crash or a play with a ton of contact was a foul, not calling anythingh is a valid option

100% this.

[HeartBreakKid]

cmon thats an offensive foul on giannis lol

hes had a couple. hes fortunate to not be on the bench.

[jalengreen]

finally gets his first lol

[dcstanley]

Lopez is just a phenomenal player.

[jalengreen]

they are absolutely letting grant take whatever he wants

bucks are also ice cold from 3 rn but dominating inside the paint

[70sFan]

How can you challenge such an obvious call?

[Jaivl]

What a game.

[70sFan]

Lopez is just a phenomenal player.

Saying that for years, he's special.

[falcolombardi]

so many dumb fouls in this game lol