2022-23 NBA Season Discussion

[70sFan]

I still wouldn't think Moses Malone or Hakeem Olajuwon could lead you to a title in the current era with their post play.

So you don't think you can win a title with Hakeem being your best player? Is this what you're trying to say?

I never said that. I don't think you can win a championship with Hakeem being your offensive engine.

I mean, is Hakeem much worse than Tatum or AD offensively? I don't think he is and I think you can win the title with one of them as your offensive engine - though you'd need more offensive help than with someone like Jokic.

[Colbinii]

So you don't think you can win a title with Hakeem being your best player? Is this what you're trying to say?

I never said that. I don't think you can win a championship with Hakeem being your offensive engine.

I mean, is Hakeem much worse than Tatum or AD offensively? I don't think he is and I think you can win the title with one of them as your offensive engine - though you'd need more offensive help than with someone like Jokic.

I don't think you can win with AD being your offensive engine, no.

He made for a great 1B/2 offensively to prime LeBron though.

As for Tatum, he has more scalability and could get hot enough from 3 to be the best offensive piece on a title winner but he is much closer to Hakeem than he is someone like Kawhi offensively.

[70sFan]

I never said that. I don't think you can win a championship with Hakeem being your offensive engine.

I mean, is Hakeem much worse than Tatum or AD offensively? I don't think he is and I think you can win the title with one of them as your offensive engine - though you'd need more offensive help than with someone like Jokic.

I don't think you can win with AD being your offensive engine, no.

He made for a great 1B/2 offensively to prime LeBron though.

As for Tatum, he has more scalability and could get hot enough from 3 to be the best offensive piece on a title winner but he is much closer to Hakeem than he is someone like Kawhi offensively.

Then we can disagree, I think Davis could definitely be your main guy on a team full of playmakers. Hakeem was better offensively than Davis of course.

[OhayoKD]

Who said you can't have a post player lead a team to a title?

Go back to 2016-19 period and find so many posts about how post game is extinct and the future of basketball is all about shooting guards (not the position, the skill). You have been here for a year, I have been here for almost a decade.

A massive shooting outlier for the position making it work is not the refutation you seem to think it is

[Colbinii]

I mean, is Hakeem much worse than Tatum or AD offensively? I don't think he is and I think you can win the title with one of them as your offensive engine - though you'd need more offensive help than with someone like Jokic.

I don't think you can win with AD being your offensive engine, no.

He made for a great 1B/2 offensively to prime LeBron though.

As for Tatum, he has more scalability and could get hot enough from 3 to be the best offensive piece on a title winner but he is much closer to Hakeem than he is someone like Kawhi offensively.

Then we can disagree, I think Davis could definitely be your main guy on a team full of playmakers. Hakeem was better offensively than Davis of course.

Well that begs the question:

Is AD being an elite play finisher, surrounded by a handful of good playmakers, your offensive engine?

Or are the playmakers the offensive engine?

Is AD and his finishing the most important part of the system or is the teams playmakers and shooters around AD the most important part?

[OhayoKD]

Yeah, no, Hakeem would absolutely be good enough to be the best player on a title team lol

Right, nobody said otherwise.

It's like you post here and everybody just draws their own conclusions based on what someone says when they never said it.

Need to post for a decade before you get favorable interpretations chief

[Colbinii]

Yeah, no, Hakeem would absolutely be good enough to be the best player on a title team lol

Right, nobody said otherwise.

It's like you post here and everybody just draws their own conclusions based on what someone says when they never said it.

Need to post for a decade before you get favorable interpretations chief

I...I have

[70sFan]

I don't think you can win with AD being your offensive engine, no.

He made for a great 1B/2 offensively to prime LeBron though.

As for Tatum, he has more scalability and could get hot enough from 3 to be the best offensive piece on a title winner but he is much closer to Hakeem than he is someone like Kawhi offensively.

Then we can disagree, I think Davis could definitely be your main guy on a team full of playmakers. Hakeem was better offensively than Davis of course.

Well that begs the question:

Is AD being an elite play finisher, surrounded by a handful of good playmakers, your offensive engine?

Or are the playmakers the offensive engine?

Is AD and his finishing the most important part of the system or is the teams playmakers and shooters around AD the most important part?

Well, if that's the case then you can make the same argument for all but very small group of players in NBA history. I mean, is Kawhi the most important part of Raptors offense? He can't make it work without playmakers, that's his limitation. Or Dirk for that matter. Can you win a title with Giannis as your "offensive engine" if he needs elite spacing and primary ball-handlers around him?

[70sFan]

Who said you can't have a post player lead a team to a title?

Go back to 2016-19 period and find so many posts about how post game is extinct and the future of basketball is all about shooting guards (not the position, the skill). You have been here for a year, I have been here for almost a decade.

A massive shooting outlier for the position making it work is not the refutation you seem to think it is

I don't think you understand my stance in this discussion. It's clear you wasn't active when these takes were normal back then.

[AEnigma]

Then we can disagree, I think Davis could definitely be your main guy on a team full of playmakers. Hakeem was better offensively than Davis of course.

Well that begs the question:

Is AD being an elite play finisher, surrounded by a handful of good playmakers, your offensive engine?

Or are the playmakers the offensive engine?

Is AD and his finishing the most important part of the system or is the teams playmakers and shooters around AD the most important part?

Well, if that's the case then you can make the same argument for all but very small group of players in NBA history. I mean, is Kawhi the most important part of Raptors offense? He can't make it work without playmakers, that's his limitation. Or Dirk for that matter. Can you win a title with Giannis as your "offensive engine" if he needs elite spacing and primary ball-handlers around him?

All those players are notably better self-creators than Davis (especially current Davis), to the point that placing him on any identical team almost by rule increases the offensive responsibilities of his teammates.

I could envision peak Davis being the “offensive engine” on a title team, sure. But it would almost certainly need to be a narrower gap than with any of those other names.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Yeah, no, Hakeem would absolutely be good enough to be the best player on a title team lol

Right, nobody said otherwise.

It's like you post here and everybody just draws their own conclusions based on what someone says when they never said it.

Ok I can rephrase that to he can be the best offensive player on a title team lmao

[Colbinii]

Yeah, no, Hakeem would absolutely be good enough to be the best player on a title team lol

Right, nobody said otherwise.

It's like you post here and everybody just draws their own conclusions based on what someone says when they never said it.

Ok I can rephrase that to he can be the best offensive player on a title team lmao

I don't think he can be

[parsnips33]

Then we can disagree, I think Davis could definitely be your main guy on a team full of playmakers. Hakeem was better offensively than Davis of course.

Well that begs the question:

Is AD being an elite play finisher, surrounded by a handful of good playmakers, your offensive engine?

Or are the playmakers the offensive engine?

Is AD and his finishing the most important part of the system or is the teams playmakers and shooters around AD the most important part?

Well, if that's the case then you can make the same argument for all but very small group of players in NBA history. I mean, is Kawhi the most important part of Raptors offense? He can't make it work without playmakers, that's his limitation. Or Dirk for that matter. Can you win a title with Giannis as your "offensive engine" if he needs elite spacing and primary ball-handlers around him?

Once again, we're faced with the inherent limitations in trying to break down what is essentially a 5-on-5 game down to constituent parts

[eminence]

I don’t think you could build a (realistic) dynasty with AD as your clear best offensive player, but you could probably build a team good enough to win a title some years, contender of sorts.

The Jrue/AD core was a decent starting point if they could’ve filled in some more between them.

[70sFan]

Well that begs the question:

Is AD being an elite play finisher, surrounded by a handful of good playmakers, your offensive engine?

Or are the playmakers the offensive engine?

Is AD and his finishing the most important part of the system or is the teams playmakers and shooters around AD the most important part?

Well, if that's the case then you can make the same argument for all but very small group of players in NBA history. I mean, is Kawhi the most important part of Raptors offense? He can't make it work without playmakers, that's his limitation. Or Dirk for that matter. Can you win a title with Giannis as your "offensive engine" if he needs elite spacing and primary ball-handlers around him?

All those players are notably better self-creators than Davis (especially current Davis), to the point that placing him on any identical team almost by rule increases the offensive responsibilities of his teammates.

I could envision peak Davis being the “offensive engine” on a title team, sure. But it would almost certainly need to be a narrower gap than with any of those other names.

Sure, like I said - Davis could be the best offensive player on a title team with enough help. I didn't say it'd be easy, though with his absurd defense from 2020 or 2023 playoffs, I guess it wouldn't be nearly as hard.

Worth mentioning that Hakeem was notably better self-creator than Davis as well.

[70sFan]

I don’t think you could build a (realistic) dynasty with AD as your clear best offensive player, but you could probably build a team good enough to win a title some years, contender of sorts.

Yeah, I never said you can create a dominant dynasty around Davis offense. At the same time, Denver really doesn't destroy top tier competition this year, so we're not really talking about all-time great team here either. It's very 1976-79 or 1994-95 run.

[GSP]

I don’t think you could build a (realistic) dynasty with AD as your clear best offensive player, but you could probably build a team good enough to win a title some years, contender of sorts.

The Jrue/AD core was a decent starting point if they could’ve filled in some more between them.

The Boogie injury boned them..............they had something going there with those 3 and Niko then he went overseas. Rondo as well.

I dunno what lineup data in their limited time was but Rondo, Jrue, Niko, Ad, Boogie looks formidable........they had a tear where they won like 9 of 10 games and beat the 18 Rockets who were 19-0 at time w/ Cp3, Harden, Capela all playing

[OhayoKD]

Yeah, no, Hakeem would absolutely be good enough to be the best player on a title team lol

Right, nobody said otherwise.

It's like you post here and everybody just draws their own conclusions based on what someone says when they never said it.

Ok I can rephrase that to he can be the best offensive player on a title team lmao

He wasn't even a comparable offensive player to torn-tendon Lebron. I suppose it's techincally possible, but we're probably entering KD-GSW territory in terms of help.

[MyUniBroDavis]

AD basically lost the ability to crate his own shot consistently outside of really big mismatches after the foot injury

[MyUniBroDavis]

Right, nobody said otherwise.

It's like you post here and everybody just draws their own conclusions based on what someone says when they never said it.

Ok I can rephrase that to he can be the best offensive player on a title team lmao

He wasn't even a comparable offensive player to torn-tendon Lebron. I suppose it's techincally possible, but we're probably entering KD-GSW territory in terms of help.

Hakeem?