RealGM Top 100 List -- 2011

therealbig3 · Post #501 » by **therealbig3** » Wed Dec 7, 2011 2:39 pm

This has been bugging me for a while...

Yay, I got post 500!

cjs55 · Post #502 » by **cjs55** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:51 am

Chris Paul being #50 and D.Will not even being nominated yet? Seems a bit crazy to me.

Post #503 » by **Doctor MJ** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:55 am

ronnymac2 wrote:As long as Russell's pic shows off his GOAT facial hair...

Artis questions your taste.

Post #504 » by **Doctor MJ** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:58 am

cjs55 wrote:Chris Paul being #50 and D.Will not even being nominated yet? Seems a bit crazy to me.

I know that there's always been a contingent of people who prefer Deron, but if you look at really any stat or accolade, Paul kills him. Should not be a surprise to see a major gap between them.

bastillon · Post #505 » by **bastillon** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:39 pm

why did Paul perform so poorly in terms of in/out though ? also Deron has health over Paul easily. 2009 PO comes to mind.

Post #506 » by **Doctor MJ** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:20 am

bastillon wrote:why did Paul perform so poorly in terms of in/out though ? also Deron has health over Paul easily. 2009 PO comes to mind.

In/out is just as reliability-fragile as +/-, and typically deals with a far less clean data set. Where we have consistent APM numbers that go against in/out, the most likely answer is that the in/out has too much noise in it. Not saying that's the only possibility, but I most definitely do not put as much stock in in/out numbers as I do in APM. I love in/out first and foremost because ElGee's been able to take it into the statistical dark ages and give us something new to chew on for legendary players that is orthogonal to the other stats we have, not because it's anything close to perfect.

lorak · Post #507 » by **lorak** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:43 am

Doctor MJ wrote:
bastillon wrote:why did Paul perform so poorly in terms of in/out though ? also Deron has health over Paul easily. 2009 PO comes to mind.

In/out is just as reliability-fragile as +/-, and typically deals with a far less clean data set. Where we have consistent APM numbers that go against in/out, the most likely answer is that the in/out has too much noise in it. Not saying that's the only possibility, but I most definitely do not put as much stock in in/out numbers as I do in APM. I love in/out first and foremost because ElGee's been able to take it into the statistical dark ages and give us something new to chew on for legendary players that is orthogonal to the other stats we have, not because it's anything close to perfect.

+1
I would even say that simple in/out (ppg vs opp ppg) is worse thing (because of noise) than box score stats.

sp6r=underrated · Post #508 » by **sp6r=underrated** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:10 am

Great job doing the list. I really learned a lot about players I didn't know much about and I was forced to reassess old views which is the entire point of these projects.

I coded ElGee In/Out runs to make it easier to read. Thanks for this great info ElGee.

ElGee wrote:Updated In/Out runs from the project:

Code: Select all
Allen    2007 (27g) 3.8 to -1.7 Allen    2002 (13g) 1.8 to 0.1 Allen    2004 (26g) 1.7 to -0.1 Allen    2008 (9g) -4.2 to 9.8 Anthony    2010 (13g) 3.5 to 4.6 Anthony    2007 (17g) 2.2 to 1.8 Anthony    2009 (16g) 1.1 to 3.6 Anthony Den 2011 (32g) 4.9 to 2.9 Anthony NYK 2011 (55g) 1.6 to 1.9 Barkley    1994 (17g) 7.8 to 6.5 Barkley    1996 (11g) 4.9 to 1.0 Barkley    1997 (29g) 3.4 to 5.7 Barkley    1987 (14g) 2.9 to 0.3

Code: Select all
Barkley 1991 (15g) 1.2 to 0.0 Barkley 1995 (14g) 0.1 to 3.9 Baylor 1962 (32g) 4.5 to 4 Baylor 1966 (16g) 0.4 to 3.2 Billups 2007 (12g) 3.3 to 4.6 Bird    1991 (22g) 8.0 to 8.0 Bird    1992 (22g) 3.5 to 4.5 Brand    2001 (8g) 6.1 to -8.5 Brand    2003 (20g) 3.7 to -3.2 Brand    2004 (13g) -1.4 to -4.8 Carter 2001 (7g) 9.5 to 3.1 Carter 2004 (9g) 8.7 to -2.1 Carter 2003 (39g) 3.9 to -4.0

Code: Select all
Carter    2002 (22g) -1.0 to -0.7 Cowens    1975 (17g) 2.6 to 6.3 Cowens    1977 (30g) 0.9 to -1.6 Dantley    1985 (26g) 4.3 to 1.3 Dantley    1980 (12g) -0.6 to -6.1 Dantley    1988 (13g) -2.0 to 4.9 Dantley    1983 (59g) -2.1 to -6.0 Dantley 1979 (20g) 4    to 4.1 Dantley Det 1989 (40g) -3.6 to 4.1 Drexler    1990 (9g)    8.3 to 7.2 Drexler    1996 (30g) 1.4 to 0.5 Drexler    1994 (18g) 0.4 to 2.6 Drexler    1993 (33g) -1.0 to 2.7

Code: Select all
Dumars    1994    (13g) 7.2 to -6.6 Dumars    1990    (7g) 6.6 to 6.6 Dumars    1995    (15g) 5.7 to -6.2 Dumars    1989    (13g) -0.7 to 7.1 Dumars    1989-91 (22g) 0.6 to 5.3 Duncan    2005    (16g) 11.2 to 10.0 Duncan    2004-05 (29g) 8.2 to 9.0 Duncan    2004    (13g) 4.7 to 8.0 Duncan    2000    (8g) 0.2 to 6.0 English Den 1980 (24g) 1    to -3.7 English Ind 1980 (28g) -0.9 to -1 Erving    1973    (12g) 7.1 to 0.6 Erving    1983    (8g)* 6.7 to 8.4

Code: Select all
Erving    1978 (9g) -2    to 4.9 Ewing    1987 (19g) 7.1 to -4.6 Ewing    94-96 (12g) 5.3 to 4.4 Frazier    1976 (23g) -1.1 to -1.5 G. Johnson 1969 (27g) 3.6 to 5.5 Garnett    06-07 (12g) 11.6 to -1.9 Garnett    2009 (25g) 5.3 to 9.1 Garnett    2010 (13g) 4.6 to 4.4 Garnett    2008 (11g) 1.7 to 10.5 Garnett    2011 (11g) 0.1 to 5.4 Gasol    2010 (17g) 4.1 to 5.6 Gasol    2005 (26g) -1.2 to 1.9 Gasol    2007 (23g) -1.8 to -5.6

Code: Select all
Gasol LAL 2008 (55g) 6.4 to 11.6 Gasol Mem 2008 (43g) 2.7 to -4.8 Gilmore* 1980 (33g) 2.3 to -1.8 Ginobili 2006 (17g) 3.9 to 7.6 Ginobili 2009 (38g) 0.1 to 4.2 Ginobili 2005 (8g) -6.7 to 7.2 Hakeem    1992 (12g) 10.6 to -0.2 Hakeem    95-96 (20g) 8.9 to 3.0 Hakeem    1986 (14g) 7.3 to 6.5 Hakeem    1995 (10g) 7.3 to 3.0 Hakeem    1991 (26g) 1.7 to 4.0 Hill    2005 (15g) 6.6 to -1.0 Hill    2000 (8g) 6.4 to 2.1

Code: Select all
Hill    1995 (12g) -0.3 to -7.3 Isiah    1991 (34g) 1.3 to 3.8 Iverson 2002 (22g) 7.3 to 3.6 Iverson 2001 (11g) 3.7 to 4.8 Iverson 2006 (10g) 3.7 to -1.4 Iverson 2000 (12g) 2.1 to 1.6 Iverson 2004 (34g) -0.8 to -2.8 Jordan 92-93 (7g) 11.3 to 8.8 Kareem 1975 (17g) 7.7 to 1.7 Kareem 1978 (20g) 5.8 to 4.2 Kidd    2005 (16g) 8.7 to 0.2 Kidd    2004 (15g) 3.6 to 3.2 Kidd    2000 (15g) 2.2 to 5.6

Code: Select all
King 1985 (27g) 8.0 to -2.1 King 1983 (16g) -1.4 to 2.2 King 1984 (6g) 11 to 4.6       KJ    1996 (26g) 4.0 to 1.6 KJ    1993 (33g) 3.7 to 8.2 KJ 1997 (12g) 12.3 to 2.5 KJ 1994 (15g) 7.5 to 6.2 KJ 1990 (8g) 5.5 to 7.6 KJ 1995 (35g) -1.5 to 3.3 Kobe 2004 (17g) 7.2 to 5.4 Kobe 2000 (16g) 4.4 to 9.4 Kobe 2005 (16g) 2.8 to -2.4 Kobe 06-07 (7g) 2.5 to 1.3

Code: Select all
Kobe    2001 (14g) 1.8 to 3.7 Kobe    2010 (9g) -0.5 to 5.1 Lanier    1978 (18g) 5.3 to -0.1 Lanier    1977 (19g) 4.2 to -0.1 Lanier    1976 (12g) 2.4 to -2.3 Lanier    1981 (13g) 2    to 7.6 Lanier    1979 (28g) 0.3 to -2.6 Lanier Det 1980 (45g) 4.5 to -5.7 Lanier Mil 1980 (56g) 10.4 to 11 LeBron    08+10 (13g) 12.5 to 4.1 Lucas    1970 (22g) -1.1 to -4.7 Lucas    1965 (13g) -2    to 2 Magic    1988 (10g) 10.9 to 7.2

Code: Select all
Magic    1989 (5g) 10.4 to 7.8 Magic    1986 (10g) 2.7 to 8.1 Magic    1984 (14g) 2.7 to 4.2 Magic    1981 (45g) 4.4 to 6.3 Mar. Johnson 1982 (20g) 3.4 to 6.6 McGrady    2002 (6g) 17.2 to 2.8 McGrady    2007 (11g) 9.3 to 6.1 McGrady    2004 (15g) 7.8 to -5.6 McGrady    2006 (35g) 7.2 to 1.5 McGrady    2003 (7g) 1.6 to 0.3 McGrady    2008 (16g) 0.1 to 4.7 McHale    1988 (18g) 5.1 to 7.1 McHale    1991 (14g) 4.8 to 6.6

Code: Select all
McHale    1986 (13g) 2.6 to 9.9 Miller    1996 (6g) 7.5 to 3.8 Miller RS+PS 1996 (10g) 6.2 to 3.7 Moncrief    1983 (6g) 1.3 to 4.5 Moncrief    1987 (43g) 0.3 to 4.1 Moncrief    1985 (9g) -0.5 to 6.8 Moncrief    1986 (9g) -0.8 to 9 Moses    1978 (25g) 4.8 to -2.7 Moses    1984 (11g) 2.9 to 2.6 Mourning    1996 (12g) 11.0 to 3.0 Mourning    1994 (22g) 9.0 to 2.2 Mourning    1997 (16g) 0.8 to 5.7 Mourning    1998 (24g) 1.7 to 5.4

Code: Select all
Mullin    1988 (22g) 4.7 to -7.1 Mullin    1993 (36g) 1.1 to -0.5 Mutombo    1992 (11g) 6    to -7.1 Mutombo    1996 (8g) -1.5 to -2.9 Mutombo ATL 2001 (33g) 5.9 to -2.8 Mutombo PHI 2001 (56g) -4    to 1.6 Nash    05-07 (16g) 13.2 to 7.5 Nash    2001 (12g) 6.6 to 5.2 Nash    2009 (8g) 6.3 to 2.5 Nowitzki    2011 (9g) 11.4 to 5.5 Odom    2005 (18g) 6.1 to -1.6 Odom    2007 (26g) 5.4 to 1.6 Paul    2010 (37g) 1.8 to -1.6

Code: Select all
Paul    2007 (18g) 0.0 to -1.6 Penny 1997 (23g) 10.3 to 2.5 Penny 2000 (22g) 6.4 to 6.9 Pierce 2007 (35g) 5.3 to -1.2 Pierce 2010 (11g) 5.2 to 4.4 Pippen 1994 (10g) 4.2 to 3.6 Pippen 1998 (38g) 3.1 to 8.6 Price 1990 (9g) 15.6 to 1.4 Price 92-94 (23g) 7.2 to 6 Price 1992 (10g) 6.9 to 6.3 Price 1993 (7g) 6.1 to 7 Price 1991 (16g) 4.8 to 1.4 Price 1989 (7g) 2.4 to 7.8

Code: Select all
Rice    1999 (23g) -2 to 2.1 Richmond 1998 (12g) 7.7 to -4.5 Richmond 1993 (37g) 6.9 to -0.1 Robertson 1968 (21g) 14.4 to 2.5 Robertson 1972 (18g) 8.2 to 13 Robertson 1970 (11g) 5.8 to 2.1 Robinson 1992 (14g) 8.0 to 4.7 Rodman    1993 (20g) 8.7 to 0.7 Rodman    1999 (27g) 3.2 to 4.7 Rodman    1996 (18g) 3.0 to 12.9 Rodman    1997 (27g) 2.8 to 11.7 Rodman    1995 (33g) 1.2 to 6.5 S. Smith 1999 (14g) 5.9 to 4.6

Code: Select all
S. Smith    1997 (10g) 4.7 to 6 S. Smith    1998 (9g) -1.8 to 3.3 Schrempf    1997 (21g) 2    to 8.2 Schrempf    1996 (19g) 0.2 to 7.8 Schrempf IND 1989 (50g) 4.5 to -1.4 Shaq    00-01 (11g) 7.7 to 6.5 Shaq    2003 (15g) 7.6 to 3.7 Shaq    00-02 (25g) 5.7 to 7.0 Shaq    2002 (15g) 5.1 to 8.1 Shaq    1996 (28g) 4.4 to 7.1 Shaq    1998 (28g) 3.5 to 8.7 Shaq    1997 (31g) 2.9 to 5.4 Shaq    2004 (15g) 1.4 to 4.2

Code: Select all
Stockton    1998 (18g) 3.4 to 7.3 T. Hardaway    1995 (20g) 4.9 to -4.2 T. Hardaway    2000 (30g) 4.2 to 2.9 T. Hardaway    1993 (16g) 2.2 to -0.6 T. Hardaway MIA 1996 (54g) 5.7 to 5.2 Thurmond    1967 (16g) 12.7 to 5.4 Thurmond    1968 (31g) 10.5 to 3.4 Thurmond    1969 (12g) 8.4 to -0.4 Thurmond    1970 (40g) 5.8 to -1.6 Unseld    1974 (23g) -0.4 to 1.4 Wade    05-06 (12g) 6.2 to 5.7 Wade    2004 (21g) 4.0 to 1.5 Wade    2008 (31g) 3.1 to -7.5

Code: Select all
Wade    2007 (31g) 1.5 to -0.4 Wallace 2005 (8g) 7.6 to 4.6 Wallace 2003 (9g) 4.9 to 4.2 Walton 1978 (24g) 13.3 to 10.0 Walton 1977 (17g) 12.6 to 8.4 Walton 1975 (31g) 2.6 to -0.3 Webber 1997 (10g) 3.7 to 2.1 Webber 1998 (11g) 3.5 to 1.1 Webber 2002 (28g) 2.6 to 8.5 Webber 2001 (12g) 0.8 to 5.9 Webber 1996 (67g) 0.7 to 1.6 Webber 2003 (15g) -1.5 to 6.2 Webber 1995 (28g) -2.4 to -6.4

Code: Select all
West    1971 (13g) 10.9 to 4.5 West    1968 (31g) 6.4 to 7.8 West    1967 (16g) 5.7 to 1.5 West    1969 (21g) 4.9 to 5.4 Wilkins 1993 (11g) 5.9 to -0.1 Wilkins 1992 (40g) 2.3 to -0.4 Wilt    1970 (70g) 0.3 to 2.3 Wilt Phi 1965 (42g) -0.8 to -0.5 Wilt SF 1965 (44g) 3.1 to -4.1 Worthy 1986 (7g) 9.6 to 8.6 Worthy 86-88 (14g) 6.5 to 7.4 Worthy 1988 (7g) 3.4 to 6.1 Worthy 1992 (28g) -1.1 to -1.5

Sorted by top net impact

Code: Select all
McGrady    2002 (6g) 17.2 to 2.8 Price    1990 (9g) 15.6 to 1.4 Robertson 1968 (21g) 14.4 to 2.5 Walton    1978 (24g) 13.3 to 10.0 Nash    05-07 (16g) 13.2 to 7.5 Thurmond 1967 (16g) 12.7 to 5.4 Walton    1977 (17g) 12.6 to 8.4 LeBron    08+10 (13g) 12.5 to 4.1 KJ    1997 (12g) 12.3 to 2.5 Garnett    06-07 (12g) 11.6 to -1.9 Nowitzki 2011 (9g) 11.4 to 5.5 Jordan    92-93 (7g) 11.3 to 8.8 Duncan    2005 (16g) 11.2 to 10.0

Code: Select all
King    1984 (6g) 11    to 4.6 Mourning    1996 (12g) 11.0 to 3.0 Magic    1988 (10g) 10.9 to 7.2 West    1971 (13g) 10.9 to 4.5 Hakeem    1992 (12g) 10.6 to -0.2 Thurmond 1968 (31g) 10.5 to 3.4 Lanier Mil 1980 (56g) 10.4 to 11 Magic    1989 (5g) 10.4 to 7.8 Penny    1997 (23g) 10.3 to 2.5 Worthy    1986 (7g)    9.6 to 8.6 Carter    2001 (7g)    9.5 to 3.1 McGrady    2007 (11g) 9.3 to 6.1 Mourning    1994 (22g) 9.0 to 2.2

Code: Select all
Hakeem    95-96 (20g) 8.9 to 3.0 Carter    2004 (9g) 8.7 to -2.1 Kidd    2005 (16g) 8.7 to 0.2 Rodman    1993 (20g) 8.7 to 0.7 Thurmond 1969 (12g) 8.4 to -0.4 Drexler    1990 (9g) 8.3 to 7.2 Duncan    04-05 (29g) 8.2 to 9.0 Robertson 1972 (18g) 8.2 to 13 Bird    1991 (22g) 8.0 to 8.0 King    1985 (27g) 8.0 to -2.1 Robinson 1992 (14g) 8.0 to 4.7 Barkley    1994 (17g) 7.8 to 6.5 McGrady    2004 (15g) 7.8 to -5.6

Code: Select all
Kareem    1975 (17g) 7.7 to 1.7 Richmond 1998 (12g) 7.7 to -4.5 Shaq    00-01 (11g) 7.7 to 6.5 Shaq    2003 (15g) 7.6 to 3.7 Wallace 2005 (8g) 7.6 to 4.6 KJ    1994 (15g) 7.5 to 6.2 Miller    1996 (6g) 7.5 to 3.8 Hakeem    1986 (14g) 7.3 to 6.5 Hakeem    1995 (10g) 7.3 to 3.0 Iverson 2002 (22g) 7.3 to 3.6 Dumars    1994 (13g) 7.2 to -6.6 Kobe    2004 (17g) 7.2 to 5.4 McGrady 2006 (35g) 7.2 to 1.5

Code: Select all
Price    92-94 (23g) 7.2 to 6 Erving    1973 (12g) 7.1 to 0.6 Ewing    1987 (19g) 7.1 to -4.6 Price    1992 (10g) 6.9 to 6.3 Richmond 1993 (37g) 6.9 to -0.1 Erving    1983 (8g)* 6.7 to 8.4 Dumars    1990 (7g) 6.6 to 6.6 Hill    2005 (15g) 6.6 to -1.0 Nash    2001 (12g) 6.6 to 5.2 Worthy    86+88 (14g) 6.5 to 7.4 Gasol LAL 2008 (55g) 6.4 to 11.6 Hill    2000 (8g) 6.4 to 2.1 Penny    2000 (22g) 6.4 to 6.9

Code: Select all
West    1968 (31g) 6.4 to 7.8 Nash    2009 (8g) 6.3 to 2.5 Miller RS+PS 1996 (10g) 6.2 to 3.7 Wade    05-06 (12g) 6.2 to 5.7 Brand    2001 (8g) 6.1 to -8.5 Odom    2005 (18g) 6.1 to -1.6 Price    1993 (7g) 6.1 to 7 Mutombo    1992 (11g) 6    to -7.1 Mutombo ATL 2001 (33g) 5.9 to -2.8 S. Smith    1999 (14g) 5.9 to 4.6 Wilkins    1993 (11g) 5.9 to -0.1 Kareem    1978 (20g) 5.8 to 4.2 Robertson    1970 (11g) 5.8 to 2.1

Code: Select all
Thurmond    1970 (40g) 5.8 to -1.6 Dumars 1995 (15g) 5.7 to -6.2 Shaq    00-02 (25g) 5.7 to 7.0 T. Hardaway MIA 1996 (54g) 5.7 to 5.2 West 1967 (16g) 5.7 to 1.5 KJ 1990 (8g) 5.5 to 7.6 Odom 2007 (26g) 5.4 to 1.6 Ewing 94-96 (12g) 5.3 to 4.4 Garnett    2009 (25g) 5.3 to 9.1 Lanier    1978 (18g) 5.3 to -0.1 Pierce    2007 (35g) 5.3 to -1.2 Pierce    2010 (11g) 5.2 to 4.4 McHale    1988 (18g) 5.1 to 7.1

Code: Select all
Shaq    2002 (15g) 5.1 to 8.1 Barkley    1996 (11g) 4.9 to 1.0 T. Hardaway 1995 (20g) 4.9 to -4.2 Wallace    2003 (9g) 4.9 to 4.2 West    1969 (21g) 4.9 to 5.4 McHale    1991 (14g) 4.8 to 6.6 Moses    1978 (25g) 4.8 to -2.7 Price    1991 (16g) 4.8 to 1.4 Duncan    2004 (13g) 4.7 to 8.0 Mullin    1988 (22g) 4.7 to -7.1 S. Smith    1997 (10g) 4.7 to 6 Garnett    2010 (13g) 4.6 to 4.4 Baylor    1962 (32g) 4.5 to 4

Code: Select all
Lanier Det    1980 (45g) 4.5 to -5.7 Schrempf IND 1989 (50g) 4.5 to -1.4 Kobe    2000 (16g) 4.4 to 9.4 Magic    1981 (45g) 4.4 to 6.3 Shaq    1996 (28g) 4.4 to 7.1 Dantley    1985 (26g) 4.3 to 1.3 Lanier    1977 (19g) 4.2 to -0.1 Pippen    1994 (10g) 4.2 to 3.6 T. Hardaway 2000 (30g) 4.2 to 2.9 Gasol    2010 (17g) 4.1 to 5.6 Dantley    1979 (20g) 4    to 4.1 KJ    1996 (26g) 4.0 to 1.6 Wade    2004 (21g) 4.0 to 1.5

Code: Select all
Carter    2003 (39g) 3.9 to -4.0 Ginobili    2006 (17g) 3.9 to 7.6 Allen    2007 (27g) 3.8 to -1.7 Brand    2003 (20g) 3.7 to -3.2 Iverson    2001 (11g) 3.7 to 4.8 Iverson    2006 (10g) 3.7 to -1.4 KJ    1993 (33g) 3.7 to 8.2 Webber    1997 (10g) 3.7 to 2.1 G. Johnson 1969 (27g) 3.6 to 5.5 Kidd    2004 (15g) 3.6 to 3.2 Anthony    2010 (13g) 3.5 to 4.6 Bird    1992 (22g) 3.5 to 4.5 Shaq    1998 (28g) 3.5 to 8.7

Code: Select all
Webber    1998 (11g) 3.5 to 1.1 Barkley    1997 (29g) 3.4 to 5.7 Mar. Johnson 1982 (20g) 3.4 to 6.6 Stockton    1998 (18g) 3.4 to 7.3 Worthy    1988 (7g) 3.4 to 6.1 Billups    2007 (12g) 3.3 to 4.6 Rodman    1999 (27g) 3.2 to 4.7 Pippen    1998 (38g) 3.1 to 8.6 Wade    2008 (31g) 3.1 to -7.5 Wilt SF    1965 (44g) 3.1 to -4.1 Rodman    1996 (18g) 3.0 to 12.9 Barkley    1987 (14g) 2.9 to 0.3 Moses    1984 (11g) 2.9 to 2.6

Code: Select all
Shaq    1997 (31g) 2.9 to 5.4 Kobe    2005 (16g) 2.8 to -2.4 Rodman    1997 (27g) 2.8 to 11.7 Gasol Mem 2008 (43g) 2.7 to -4.8 Magic    1986 (10g) 2.7 to 8.1 Magic    1984 (14g) 2.7 to 4.2 Cowens    1975 (17g) 2.6 to 6.3 McHale    1986 (13g) 2.6 to 9.9 Walton    1975 (31g) 2.6 to -0.3 Webber    2002 (28g) 2.6 to 8.5 Kobe    06-07 (7g) 2.5 to 1.3 Lanier    1976 (12g) 2.4 to -2.3 Price    1989 (7g) 2.4 to 7.8

Code: Select all
Gilmore*    1980 (33g) 2.3 to -1.8 Wilkins    1992 (40g) 2.3 to -0.4 Anthony    2007 (17g) 2.2 to 1.8 Kidd    2000 (15g) 2.2 to 5.6 T. Hardaway 1993 (16g) 2.2 to -0.6 Iverson    2000 (12g) 2.1 to 1.6 Lanier    1981 (13g) 2    to 7.6 Schrempf    1997 (21g) 2    to 8.2 Allen    2002 (13g) 1.8 to 0.1 Kobe    2001 (14g) 1.8 to 3.7 Paul    2010 (37g) 1.8 to -1.6 Allen    2004 (26g) 1.7 to -0.1 Garnett    2008 (11g) 1.7 to 10.5

Code: Select all
Hakeem    1991 (26g) 1.7 to 4.0 Mourning    1998 (24g) 1.7 to 5.4 Anthony NYK 2011 (55g) 1.6 to 1.9 McGrady    2003 (7g) 1.6 to 0.3 Wade    2007 (31g) 1.5 to -0.4 Drexler    1996 (30g) 1.4 to 0.5 Shaq    2004 (15g) 1.4 to 4.2 Isiah    1991 (34g) 1.3 to 3.8 Moncrief    1983 (6g) 1.3 to 4.5 Barkley    1991 (15g) 1.2 to 0.0 Rodman    1995 (33g) 1.2 to 6.5 Anthony    2009 (16g) 1.1 to 3.6 Mullin    1993 (36g) 1.1 to -0.5

Code: Select all
English Den 1980 (24g) 1    to -3.7 Cowens    1977 (30g) 0.9 to -1.6 Mourning    1997 (16g) 0.8 to 5.7 Webber    2001 (12g) 0.8 to 5.9 Webber    1996 (67g) 0.7 to 1.6 Dumars    89-91 (22g) 0.6 to 5.3 Baylor    1966 (16g) 0.4 to 3.2 Drexler    1994 (18g) 0.4 to 2.6 Lanier    1979 (28g) 0.3 to -2.6 Moncrief    1987 (43g) 0.3 to 4.1 Wilt    1970 (70g) 0.3 to 2.3 Duncan    2000 (8g) 0.2 to 6.0 Schrempf    1996 (19g) 0.2 to 7.8

Code: Select all
Barkley 1995 (14g) 0.1 to 3.9 Garnett 2011 (11g) 0.1 to 5.4 Ginobili 2009 (38g) 0.1 to 4.2 McGrady 2008 (16g) 0.1 to 4.7 Paul    2007 (18g) 0.0 to -1.6 Hill    1995 (12g) -0.3 to -7.3 Unseld    1974 (23g) -0.4 to 1.4 Kobe    2010 (9g) -0.5 to 5.1 Moncrief 1985 (9g) -0.5 to 6.8 Dantley 1980 (12g) -0.6 to -6.1 Dumars    1989 (13g) -0.7 to 7.1 Iverson 2004 (34g) -0.8 to -2.8 Moncrief 1986 (9g) -0.8 to 9

Code: Select all
Wilt Phi    1965 (42g) -0.8 to -0.5 English Ind 1980 (28g) -0.9 to -1 Carter    2002 (22g) -1.0 to -0.7 Drexler    1993 (33g) -1.0 to 2.7 Frazier    1976 (23g) -1.1 to -1.5 Lucas    1970 (22g) -1.1 to -4.7 Worthy    1992 (28g) -1.1 to -1.5 Gasol    2005 (26g) -1.2 to 1.9 Brand    2004 (13g) -1.4 to -4.8 King    1983 (16g) -1.4 to 2.2 KJ    1995 (35g) -1.5 to 3.3 Mutombo    1996 (8g) -1.5 to -2.9 Webber    2003 (15g) -1.5 to 6.2

Code: Select all
Gasol    2007 (23g) -1.8 to -5.6 S. Smith    1998 (9g) -1.8 to 3.3 Dantley    1988 (13g) -2.0 to 4.9 Erving    1978 (9g) -2    to 4.9 Lucas    1965 (13g) -2    to 2 Rice    1999 (23g) -2    to 2.1 Dantley    1983 (59g) -2.1 to -6.0 Webber    1995 (28g) -2.4 to -6.4 Dantley Det 1989 (40g) -3.6 to 4.1 Mutombo PHI 2001 (56g) -4    to 1.6 Allen    2008 (9g) -4.2 to 9.8 Anthony Den 2011 (32g) -4.9 to 2.9 Ginobili    2005 (8g) -6.7 to 7.2

ElGee on wrote:Finally, I've amended the Simple Adjustment to try and accurately reflect what a player would be doing on a .500 team based on how good their team was without them in the lineup. Here are the runs ordered by Simple IO Value:

Code: Select all
Robertson 1972 (18g) 10.82 Lanier Mil 1980 (56g) 10.82 Walton 1978 (24g) 10.37 Duncan 2005 (16g) 10.3 Jordan 92-93 (7g) 9.42 Walton 1977 (17g) 9.07 Worthy 1986 (7g) 8.96 Duncan 04-05(29g) 8.64 Gasol LAL 2008 (55g) 8.62 Magic 1989 (5g) 8.6 Magic 1988 (10g) 8.21 Nash 05-07(16g) 8.18 Bird 1991 (22g) 8

Code: Select all
Drexler 1990 (9g) 7.69 Erving 1983 (8g)* 7.46 McGrady 2007 (11g) 7.32 Barkley 1994 (17g) 7.12 Shaq 00-01(11g) 7.08 West 1968 (31g) 7 Nowitzki 2011 (9g) 6.92 Hakeem 1986 (14g) 6.91 Worthy 86+88(14g) 6.89 KJ 1994 (15g) 6.85 Garnett 2009 (25g) 6.64 Price 92-94(23g) 6.62 Price 1992 (10g) 6.62

Code: Select all
Penny 2000 (22g) 6.61 Dumars 1990 (7g) 6.6 Thurmond 1967 (16g) 6.52 Price 1993 (7g) 6.47 Kobe 2004 (17g) 6.34 King 1984 (6g) 6.31 KJ 1990 (8g) 6.27 West 1971 (13g) 6.25 Robinson 1992 (14g) 6.24 Shaq 00-02(25g) 6.19 Shaq 2002 (15g) 6.12 Wallace 2005 (8g) 6.08 Wade 05-06(12g) 5.99

Code: Select all
Nash 2001 (12g) 5.98 Kobe 2000 (16g) 5.87 McHale 1988 (18g) 5.78 Duncan 2004 (13g) 5.73 Miller 1996 (6g) 5.65 Shaq 2003 (15g) 5.62 Thurmond 1968 (31g) 5.53 T. Hardaway MIA 1996 (54g) 5.51 LeBron 08+10(13g) 5.5 Iverson 2002 (22g) 5.5 Carter 2001 (7g) 5.45 Hakeem 95-96(20g) 5.4 S. Smith 1999 (14g) 5.39

Code: Select all
McHale 1991 (14g) 5.38 Hakeem 1995 (10g) 5.21 Shaq 1996 (28g) 5.19 Kareem 1978 (20g) 5.18 Miller RS+PS 1996 (10g) 5.17 Mourning 1996 (12g) 5.13 S. Smith 1997 (10g) 5.11 West 1969 (21g) 5.06 Ewing 94-96(12g) 4.98 Rodman 1996 (18g) 4.98 Magic 1981 (45g) 4.96 Penny 1997 (23g) 4.94 Pierce 2010 (11g) 4.92

Code: Select all
Mourning 1994 (22g) 4.92 Ginobili 2006 (17g) 4.86 KJ 1993 (33g) 4.81 Shaq 1998 (28g) 4.71 Nash 2009 (8g) 4.7 Wallace 2003 (9g) 4.67 Kareem 1975 (17g) 4.62 Hill 2000 (8g) 4.57 Garnett 2010 (13g) 4.54 Gasol 2010 (17g) 4.51 McGrady 2006 (35g) 4.46 Rodman 1997 (27g) 4.46 Robertson 1970 (11g) 4.37

Code: Select all
Baylor 1962 (32g) 4.35 Stockton 1998 (18g) 4.28 KJ 1997 (12g) 4.26 Pippen 1998 (38g) 4.24 Mar. Johnson 1982 (20g) 4.13 West 1967 (16g) 4.1 Rodman 1993 (20g) 4.06 G. Johnson 1969 (27g) 4.06 Odom 2007 (26g) 4.03 Pippen 1994 (10g) 4.03 Dantley 1979 (20g) 4.03 Erving 1973 (12g) 4.02 Worthy 1988 (7g) 4.01

Code: Select all
Iverson 2001 (11g) 3.97 Barkley 1997 (29g) 3.92 McHale 1986 (13g) 3.87 T. Hardaway 2000 (30g) 3.84 Kidd 2005 (16g) 3.77 Anthony 2010 (13g) 3.76 Bird 1992 (22g) 3.73 Price 1991 (16g) 3.71 Richmond 1993 (37g) 3.68 Magic 1986 (10g) 3.67 Barkley 1996 (11g) 3.63 Webber 2002 (28g) 3.62 Billups 2007 (12g) 3.59

Code: Select all
Wilkins 1993 (11g) 3.54 Rodman 1999 (27g) 3.52 Kidd 2004 (15g) 3.5 Thurmond 1969 (12g) 3.47 Dantley 1985 (26g) 3.44 Lanier 1978 (18g) 3.39 Shaq 1997 (31g) 3.38 KJ 1996 (26g) 3.36 Wade 2004 (21g) 3.33 Webber 1997 (10g) 3.31 Price 1989 (7g) 3.26 Hill 2005 (15g) 3.26 Cowens 1975 (17g) 3.24

Code: Select all
Pierce 2007 (35g) 3 Lanier 1977 (19g) 3 Robertson 1968 (21g) 2.98 Magic 1984 (14g) 2.97 Odom 2005 (18g) 2.97 Hakeem 1992 (12g) 2.97 Webber 1998 (11g) 2.94 Thurmond 1970 (40g) 2.94 Moses 1984 (11g) 2.84 Schrempf 1997 (21g) 2.83 Lanier 1981 (13g) 2.75 Schrempf IND 1989 (50g) 2.73 Kidd 2000 (15g) 2.7

Code: Select all
Garnett 2008 (11g) 2.7 King 1985 (27g) 2.61 Mutombo ATL 2001 (33g) 2.48 Iverson 2006 (10g) 2.44 Carter 2004 (9g) 2.44 Allen 2007 (27g) 2.41 Moses 1978 (25g) 2.4 Barkley 1987 (14g) 2.4 Kobe 06-07 (7g) 2.3 Anthony 2007 (17g) 2.14 Mourning 1998 (24g) 2.12 Walton 1975 (31g) 2.1 Iverson 2000 (12g) 2.03

Code: Select all
Kobe 2001 (14g) 2.03 Brand 2003 (20g) 2 Hakeem 1991 (26g) 1.96 T. Hardaway 1995 (20g) 1.93 Wilkins 1992 (40g) 1.89 Carter 2003 (39g) 1.85 Kobe 2005 (16g) 1.83 T. Hardaway 1993 (16g) 1.79 Gilmore* 1980 (33g) 1.67 Shaq 2004 (15g) 1.66 Lanier 1976 (12g) 1.65 Anthony NYK 2011 (55g) 1.63 Rodman 1995 (33g) 1.62

Code: Select all
Wilt SF 1965 (44g) 1.61 Allen 2002 (13g) 1.6 Moncrief 1983 (6g) 1.58 Ewing 1987 (19g) 1.56 Isiah 1991 (34g) 1.52 Allen 2004 (26g) 1.5 McGrady 2003 (7g) 1.46 Lanier Det 1980 (45g) 1.44 Richmond 1998 (12g) 1.44 Paul 2010 (37g) 1.39 Gasol Mem 2008 (43g) 1.35 Drexler 1996 (30g) 1.32 Wade 2007 (31g) 1.31

Code: Select all
Anthony 2009 (16g) 1.28 Dumars 1995 (15g) 1.18 Garnett 06-07(12g) 1.16 Barkley 1991 (15g) 1.1 Webber 2001 (12g) 1.07 Mourning 1997 (16g) 1.06 Mullin 1988 (22g) 1 Mullin 1993 (36g) 0.98 Wade 2008 (31g) 0.91 Price 1990 (9g) 0.83 McGrady 2004 (15g) 0.83 Dumars 89-91(22g) 0.79 Mutombo 1992 (11g) 0.76

Code: Select all
Cowens 1977 (30g) 0.75 Webber 1996 (67g) 0.74 McGrady 2002 (6g) 0.69 English Den 1980 (24g) 0.69 Dumars 1994 (13g) 0.58 Baylor 1966 (16g) 0.47 Drexler 1994 (18g) 0.46 Moncrief 1987 (43g) 0.38 Wilt 1970 (70g) 0.34 Schrempf 1996 (19g) 0.3 Duncan 2000 (8g) 0.28 Lanier 1979 (28g) 0.24 Brand 2001 (8g) 0.16

Code: Select all
Garnett 2011 (11g) 0.14 McGrady 2008 (16g) 0.13 Ginobili 2009 (38g) 0.13 Barkley 1995 (14g) 0.13 Paul 2007 (18g) 0 Moncrief 1985 (9g) -0.26 Moncrief 1986 (9g) -0.28 Allen 2008 (9g) -0.28 Kobe 2010 (9g) -0.31 Dumars 1989 (13g) -0.34 Unseld 1974 (23g) -0.35 Hill 1995 (12g) -0.44 Ginobili 2005 (8g) -0.49

Code: Select all
Webber 2003 (15g) -0.73 Drexler 1993 (33g) -0.75 Wilt Phi 1965 (42g) -0.78 Dantley 1980 (12g) -0.82 English Ind 1980 (28g) -0.91 Iverson 2004 (34g) -0.91 Gasol 2005 (26g) -0.95 Carter 2002 (22g) -0.98 KJ 1995 (35g) -1.02 King 1983 (16g) -1.06 Dantley 1988 (13g) -1.08 Erving 1978 (9g) -1.08 Frazier 1976 (23g) -1.13

Code: Select all
Worthy 1992 (28g) -1.13 S. Smith 1998 (9g) -1.19 Lucas 1970 (22g) -1.36 Rice 1999 (23g) -1.45 Lucas 1965 (13g) -1.47 Mutombo 1996 (8g) -1.64 Brand 2004 (13g) -1.72 Dantley Det 1989 (40g) -1.75 Gasol 2007 (23g) -2.26 Anthony Den 2011 (32g) -2.35 Mutombo PHI 2001 (56g) -2.51 Dantley 1983 (59g) -2.65 Webber 1995 (28g) -3.04

ElGee · Post #509 » by **ElGee** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:19 pm

Funny timing - I just (finally) presented it neatly on the blog:
http://www.backpicks.com/inout/

bastillon · Post #510 » by **bastillon** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:59 pm

can you double check 95 Jordan ?

ElGee · Post #511 » by **ElGee** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:25 pm

bastillon wrote:can you double check 95 Jordan ?

It's right - what's the issue?

For future reference, I'm more likely to see a comment if you place it on the blog. Thanks.

Post #512 » by **penbeast0** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:25 am

After asking for people to do at least some argument for their choices for the last few threads, I am going to require it for the choice to be valid. This is supposed to be a forum for discussion but several of our voters have quit posting reasons for at least the last month -- I can see not wanting to post the same thing every time but it's getting ridiculous.

BattleTested · Post #513 » by **BattleTested** » Mon Jan 2, 2012 11:55 am

Vince Carter and Marques Johnson over James Worthy? This list is a joke. Might as well be the top 100 for PER of all time.

Post #514 » by **rrravenred** » Mon Jan 2, 2012 12:41 pm

BattleTested wrote:Vince Carter and Marques Johnson over James Worthy? This list is a joke. Might as well be the top 100 for PER of all time.

Did you read the threads in which those choices were discussed?

Effigy · Post #515 » by **Effigy** » Sun Jan 8, 2012 8:29 am

I'm just floored at how high Kevin Garnet is. He's more than 20 spots too high. I'd put him below Kidd, above McGrady around the 37 spot.

therealbig3 · Post #516 » by **therealbig3** » Sun Jan 8, 2012 11:56 am

Effigy wrote:I'm just floored at how high Kevin Garnet is. He's more than 20 spots too high. I'd put him below Kidd, above McGrady around the 37 spot.

I'm floored by how you're ridiculously underrating KG. Not even top 30??? Seriously? LOL at Kidd even coming close to KG, let alone going ahead of him.

Laimbeer · Post #517 » by **Laimbeer** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:35 am

Low twenties probably.

Post #518 » by **Doctor MJ** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:30 am

I want to give beast his props. Thank you for putting this altogether and sticking with it for over a half year. Cheers!

:rockon:

Post #519 » by **rrravenred** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:04 am

Doctor MJ wrote:I want to give beast his props. Thank you for putting this altogether and sticking with it for over a half year. Cheers!

+1

lorak · Post #520 » by **lorak** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:02 am

Doctor MJ wrote:I want to give beast his props. Thank you for putting this altogether and sticking with it for over a half year. Cheers!

Me too, thank you penbeast0.