James Harden is a superstar

[C-izMe]

Actually we have his whole career as a sample size. He usually goes off on bad teams. Last year all of the teams he had more than a 20 game score against were terrible defensively (excluding one game against Memphis where he was guarded by OJ Mayo). It could be a trend or it could be that he had the ball less in games against good defenses. IDK which one but it's obvious what side I'm leaning to.

[rrravenred]

I just flipped a coin. According to the data available, a coin will always land heads up.

[MisterWestside]

I just flipped a coin. According to the data available, a coin will always land heads up.

Clearly, you're wrong.

http://www.random.org/coins/?num=1&cur=60-usd.0025c-pa

Wrong.

EDIT: Site doesn't save the single "tails" flip. Bah. Fine, you're right. A coin will always land heads.

Damn you.

[ahonui06]

For now, we can only go off of the data available.

The wiser option would be to hold off making any kind of half-assed judgement based on less than a half-dozen games, don't you think?

You can't learn much of value about a player's suitability to a role in 4 games and trying to extract such knowledge is an exercise in futility. Give it at least to the quarter mark before you start trying to see anything in the data. Let him start seeing teams more than once, get used to his all-new teammates/coach/offensive system/role for a bit, I mean seriously.


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Or I could keep making assessments in increments as the season goes along because I'll inevitably be bored at work sometime during the next few weeks.

[tsherkin]

Or I could keep making assessments in increments as the season goes along because I'll inevitably be bored at work sometime during the next few weeks.

You can, but don't expect an analysis after 4 games to be regarded as even remotely legitimate or sensible.

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[pancakes3]

Both sides are valid but it's more fun to speculate than to sit on our hands. Plus, honestly for all the snipers out there, you'd be twice as bored without the ahonui's out there making the half-assed proclamations.

[ahonui06]

Both sides are valid but it's more fun to speculate than to sit on our hands. Plus, honestly for all the snipers out there, you'd be twice as bored without the ahonui's out there making the half-assed proclamations.

I'm sticking with my original assessment that Harden won't be able to carry a team as the #1 option. Nothing I've seen yet has proven he can do that.

[pancakes3]

Not even in the first two games? Not total, non-negotiable, concrete proof of course, but not even the semblances of proof?

(total, unyielding proof is hard to come by. just look at GOAT discussions)

[tsherkin]

Both sides are valid but it's more fun to speculate than to sit on our hands. Plus, honestly for all the snipers out there, you'd be twice as bored without the ahonui's out there making the half-assed proclamations.

I disagree, there are too many legitimate discussions for something as off-kilter as this to be quality stuff. This is the sort of thing you spout over a few beers, bitching as your team loses, not to engage in honest debate.

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[MisterWestside]

Not even in the first two games? Not total, non-negotiable, concrete proof of course, but not even the semblances of proof?

(total, unyielding proof is hard to come by. just look at GOAT discussions)

I think he's automatically throwing out the first two games since they came against subpar defenses.

Of course, for those actually interested in analysis, even if you adjust Harden's performances against those two defenses (assuming 2011 drtgs) he still played amazing games.

[Lightning25]

Real superstars don't play like complete garbage against elite perimeter defenders. Harden has been terrible in the past 3 games and in those past 3 games, he has had 3 good perimeter defenders guard him in Batum, Iguodala, and Tony Allen.

This guy is not a superstar, nor is he a future one.

[Krodis]

His shot was off tonight but I really don't think he played poorly on the whole. Did a good job setting up his teammates (Better than 4 assists would imply, he got a lot of hockey assists). Shot is just off though at this point. He's 2-17 from three his last three games.

[Mavericksfan]

Even superstars go cold at times.

Although I agree he isn't one now it's certainly possible for him to become one.

I think the main issue is jut that he isn't very versatile offensively. I still laugh at the few that had the nerve to compare him to Steve Nash.

Harden's either taking the 3 or trying his hardest to get to the rim. He isn't particular deadly with off-ball movement either so the only consistent ability he has if the defense takes away the drive is drawing fouls. (No one is going to consistently hit contested 3 pointers)

[Krodis]

He's actually quite good off-ball. He's not Reggie Miller, but he moves around well, uses screens well, and has a good backdoor cut.

[Mavericksfan]

His shot was off tonight but I really don't think he played poorly on the whole. Did a good job setting up his teammates (Better than 4 assists would imply, he got a lot of hockey assists). Shot is just off though at this point. He's 2-17 from three his last three games.

How can you say he didn't play poorly when he had more turnovers than field goals made? The Rockets need Harden to be a volume scorer due to their lack of offensive talent and anyway you look at it him scoring that little means he isn't doing his job.

I only managed to watch some of the 4th though, was his defense non existent-borderline liability as usual?

He's actually quite good off-ball. He's not Reggie Miller, but he moves around well, uses screens well, and has a good backdoor cut.

"quite good" won't cut it against the better defenders/ defense in the league.

[fallacy]

I guess I should take this from the game thread and post it here


Harden vs the East: 41 points, 7 assists, 6.5 rebounds, 28-44 fg, 64 fg%, 6-14 3pt

Harden vs the West: 19 points, 3.6 assists, 4.3 rebounds, 17-57 fg, 29 fg%, 2-17 3pt


Maybe Houston should move to the East?

His defense has really regressed as well

[G35]

Both sides are valid but it's more fun to speculate than to sit on our hands. Plus, honestly for all the snipers out there, you'd be twice as bored without the ahonui's out there making the half-assed proclamations.

I'm sticking with my original assessment that Harden won't be able to carry a team as the #1 option. Nothing I've seen yet has proven he can do that.

I agree with both points. The majority of the posts on REALGM are not rooted in reality or made from substance. However plenty of entertainment is gleaned from them.

I also don't think Harden is a #1 guy either. Efficiency is overblown on this board.....

[C-izMe]

I guess I should take this from the game thread and post it here


Harden vs the East: 41 points, 7 assists, 6.5 rebounds, 28-44 fg, 64 fg%, 6-14 3pt

Harden vs the West: 19 points, 3.6 assists, 4.3 rebounds, 17-57 fg, 29 fg%, 2-17 3pt


Maybe Houston should move to the East?

His defense has really regressed as well

If his defense regressed he has to be at Kyrie levels of bad right now.





Definetly not a superstar last year (like this thread says) and not a superstar this year. So far (I'm not saying he's as bad as this guy) he's played like Monta.

[DreDay]

I made the Monta to Harden comparisons before. I know Bucks fans will come here and scream "MONTA SUCKS" but that's because he was a bad no1 option. Look at Kevin Martin now. Suddenly he looks like a future superstar and max contract player, just like James Harden was (Basing that on his efficiency numbers which every Harden fan used for their case). Ellis was once loved as a sixth man but now he is a black hole. That could be the future for James Harden.

[ahonui06]

Now 3 miserable games for Harden against contending teams. He's only proven to be successful against mediocre or poor teams.