'15-16 RealGM Player of the Year Discussion Thread

[mikejames23]

My issue with dropping Curry from #1 is an entire season’s worth of work. It wasn’t until the last couple games that he’s been disappointing. These are obviously the most important games of the year, but…

Dropping him out of #1 on what, 2 bad games? This still sounds outlandish to me. If you’re Golden State, I really feel Draymond Green completely disappearing is where the majority of the blame needs to go. That, and Donovan outcoaching Kerr. Do you really kick the guy out, the guy who’s been in his own tier for the entire year? It’s not too long ago that he pretty much crushed the Blazers off the bench.

Let’s say playoff games count for more. The last 2 games (and perhaps the elimination game) cannot make up for 80+ games of amazing work. They simply cannot. On top of this, these performances fall more under the “underwhelming” category than the “choke job” category, for me.

[Texas Chuck]

I simply don't knee-jerk enough to participate much more itt. I'm amazed at how quickly many of you totally change your opinions on players based on singular series, or sometimes just a game or two.

To use an old example because I don't mean to criticize anyone specifically for their opinions--but in 2007 the Warriors didn't prove Dirk wasn't really worthy of his MVP or show how he could be rendered totally ineffective. Nellie coached circles around Avery Johnson who panicked and went away from much of what won Dallas 67 games. And Dirk was awful in 2 games. 2 games. He was fine in the other 4. Not world-beating, but more than good enough if his team and coach did what they did the rest of the year.

To me it was the same last year when everyone started killing Lebron because he wasn't as efficient as literally the only threat on the Cavs despite it working. I refused to abandon him. And its the same now with some of the current guys. They didn't suddenly become horrible or newly amazing.

[bondom34]

At some point, playing 2/3 the minutes factors into voting as well.

[lorak]

- I think POY voting should be done sometime long after playoffs will end, for example in October, because that would give us better perspective on what happened, that will alow us to avoid voting under emotions.

- Green is a disappointment, but his defense vs OKC is at the same level as Kawhi vs OKC (according to sportVU)

- Curry vs Thunder has more open 2s and way more open 3s than during regular season, but while he is making 2s at the same efficiency, his 3P% is down by 12 percentage points! (from 47,8 to 35,1). So I don't know if it's because defense on RW is so energy consuming or it is just small sample. But Warriors need him to hit these open threes.

- Thunder FT rate was amazing last two games. in regular season their FT/FGA was 0.228 and in G3 and G4 0.359 and 0.344. Bad defense or "home court" officiating?

[Texas Chuck]

At some point, playing 2/3 the minutes factors into voting as well.

No question. And I don't want to be too critical of those whose are willing to change their opinions this quickly. I freely admit I err too much the other direction in being too slow to accept what I am "seeing".

But I just really have a hard time buying that players should rise or fall so much in our estimation over tiny sample sizes or adjustments that likely belong to coaching staffs.

[bondom34]

- Thunder FT rate was amazing last two games. in regular season their FT/FGA was 0.228 and in G3 and G4 0.359 and 0.344. Bad defense or "home court" officiating?

I know you're not saying it is this, but I want to just say how much I absolutely loathe this argument.

They're getting to the line because they're getting fouled. If Green and Bogut wouldn't be fouling, they'd have less FTs.

GSW has been called for 90 fouls, OKC 82. OKCs just aren't shooting.

[lorak]

- Thunder FT rate was amazing last two games. in regular season their FT/FGA was 0.228 and in G3 and G4 0.359 and 0.344. Bad defense or "home court" officiating?

I know you're not saying it is this, but I want to just say how much I absolutely loathe this argument.

They're getting to the line because they're getting fouled. If Green and Bogut wouldn't be fouling, they'd have less FTs.

GSW has been called for 90 fouls, OKC 82. OKCs just aren't shooting.

Well, we will see how it will look in Oakland.

[bondom34]

- Thunder FT rate was amazing last two games. in regular season their FT/FGA was 0.228 and in G3 and G4 0.359 and 0.344. Bad defense or "home court" officiating?

I know you're not saying it is this, but I want to just say how much I absolutely loathe this argument.

They're getting to the line because they're getting fouled. If Green and Bogut wouldn't be fouling, they'd have less FTs.

GSW has been called for 90 fouls, OKC 82. OKCs just aren't shooting.

Well, we will see how it will look in Oakland.

We already did in games 1 and 2. OKC called for 37 fouls, GSW 43.

[lorak]

I know you're not saying it is this, but I want to just say how much I absolutely loathe this argument.

They're getting to the line because they're getting fouled. If Green and Bogut wouldn't be fouling, they'd have less FTs.

GSW has been called for 90 fouls, OKC 82. OKCs just aren't shooting.

Well, we will see how it will look in Oakland.

We already did in games 1 and 2. OKC called for 37 fouls, GSW 43.

G1 0.247, G2 0.179, so way below what they got in Oklahoma.

[bondom34]

Oh, and there's no way Curry drops from 1. I do however feel better about Westbrook at 2, though he's been there all along. Agree with Chuck the kneejerking seems a bit much.

Really the only things changing right now are probably Lebron moving to 3, Kawhi dropping, and Durant being somewhere in the top 5 for sure over Paul. He was debatable there anyway. So I'm still at
Curry
Westbrook
Lebron
KD or Kawhi
Kawhi or KD

[bondom34]

Well, we will see how it will look in Oakland.

We already did in games 1 and 2. OKC called for 37 fouls, GSW 43.

G1 0.247, G2 0.179, so way below what they got in Oklahoma.

But the number of fouls was still there.

Its a matter of when and where.

[Texas Chuck]

- Thunder FT rate was amazing last two games. in regular season their FT/FGA was 0.228 and in G3 and G4 0.359 and 0.344. Bad defense or "home court" officiating?

I know you're not saying it is this, but I want to just say how much I absolutely loathe this argument.

They're getting to the line because they're getting fouled. If Green and Bogut wouldn't be fouling, they'd have less FTs.

GSW has been called for 90 fouls, OKC 82. OKCs just aren't shooting.

Well, we will see how it will look in Oakland.

Sure home-court officiating has some merit to it. We can't ignore the realities of that. But we also have to look at how much more OKC is attacking the rim than GSW is. I'd be surprised if they weren't shooting more FT's.

[JordansBulls]

At some point, playing 2/3 the minutes factors into voting as well.

No question. And I don't want to be too critical of those whose are willing to change their opinions this quickly. I freely admit I err too much the other direction in being too slow to accept what I am "seeing".

But I just really have a hard time buying that players should rise or fall so much in our estimation over tiny sample sizes or adjustments that likely belong to coaching staffs.

Also an unanimous MVP means the player was far ahead of others as well.

[PaulieWal]

I simply don't knee-jerk enough to participate much more itt. I'm amazed at how quickly many of you totally change your opinions on players based on singular series, or sometimes just a game or two.

I don't know about others but I have been consistent in saying that missed time in the PS is a big deal for me. I said this the day after Curry got hurt. Him performing poorly in this series just makes it easier for me to not have him #1. Even if the Warriors were winning but he was playing exactly like this I wouldn't have him #1.

Being healthy in the PS matters and when you miss two rounds I can't have you #1. This doesn't even take into account that they would most likely lost in the 2nd round if CP/Blake were healthy. I don't think it's knee-jerk to not have Curry #1 anymore if someone considers being healthy important in the PS. This isn't unique to Steph either. Guys like CP/Wade and countless other stars lose points whenever they are not healthy in the PS.

[lorak]

We already did in games 1 and 2. OKC called for 37 fouls, GSW 43.

G1 0.247, G2 0.179, so way below what they got in Oklahoma.

But the number of fouls was still there.

Its a matter of when and where.

You know FT/FGA is a 4factor and there is a reason why it is FT/FGA and not number of fouls, right?

[bondom34]

G1 0.247, G2 0.179, so way below what they got in Oklahoma.

But the number of fouls was still there.

Its a matter of when and where.

You know FT/FGA is a 4factor and there is a reason why it is FT/FGA and not number of fouls, right?

And you know saying officiating is to blame would require fouls being called, right? Because refs aren't giving out FTs for non shooting fouls.

[bondom34]

I simply don't knee-jerk enough to participate much more itt. I'm amazed at how quickly many of you totally change your opinions on players based on singular series, or sometimes just a game or two.

I don't know about others but I have been consistent in saying that missed time in the PS is a big deal for me. I said this the day after Curry got hurt. Him performing poorly in this series just makes it easier for me to not have him #1. Even if the Warriors were winning but he was playing exactly like this I wouldn't have him #1.

Being healthy in the PS matters and when you miss two rounds I can't have you #1. This doesn't even take into account that they would most likely lost in the 2nd round if CP/Blake were healthy. I don't think it's knee-jerk to not have Curry #1 anymore if someone considers being healthy important in the PS. This isn't unique to Steph either. Guys like CP/Wade and countless other stars lose points whenever they are not healthy in the PS.

You've been consistent there.

I'm getting to a weird point with it where I'm tempted to jump ship on Curry, but the RS was just so dominant.

[PaulieWal]

Oh, and there's no way Curry drops from 1. I do however feel better about Westbrook at 2, though he's been there all along. Agree with Chuck the kneejerking seems a bit much.

Really the only things changing right now are probably Lebron moving to 3, Kawhi dropping, and Durant being somewhere in the top 5 for sure over Paul. He was debatable there anyway. So I'm still at
Curry
Westbrook
Lebron
KD or Kawhi
Kawhi or KD

I don't know. For me injuries are an important factor and it's hard to have you #1 when you miss 2 rounds in the PS, come back and under-perform for the games that you do play. At this point I am more likely to have Russ #1 than Curry.

[lorak]

I know you're not saying it is this, but I want to just say how much I absolutely loathe this argument.

They're getting to the line because they're getting fouled. If Green and Bogut wouldn't be fouling, they'd have less FTs.

GSW has been called for 90 fouls, OKC 82. OKCs just aren't shooting.

Well, we will see how it will look in Oakland.

Sure home-court officiating has some merit to it. We can't ignore the realities of that. But we also have to look at how much more OKC is attacking the rim than GSW is. I'd be surprised if they weren't shooting more FT's.

Last 2 games Warriors attempted more AT rim shots than Thunder.

[Texas Chuck]

I simply don't knee-jerk enough to participate much more itt. I'm amazed at how quickly many of you totally change your opinions on players based on singular series, or sometimes just a game or two.

I don't know about others but I have been consistent in saying that missed time in the PS is a big deal for me. I said this the day after Curry got hurt. Him performing poorly in this series just makes it easier for me to not have him #1. Even if the Warriors were winning but he was playing exactly like this I wouldn't have him #1.

Being healthy in the PS matters and when you miss two rounds I can't have you #1. This doesn't even take into account that they would most likely lost in the 2nd round if CP/Blake were healthy. I don't think it's knee-jerk to not have Curry #1 anymore if someone considers being healthy important in the PS. This isn't unique to Steph either. Guys like CP/Wade and countless other stars lose points whenever they are not healthy in the PS.

I wouldn't consider that knee-jerking at all either.