The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 2)

[mischievous]

A few bad games (including the one he got injured in) are dragging his numbers down, for the most part he has played very well when he's on the floor. People are acting like he has regressed so badly or something watch how everyone's opinion of his peak will suddenly flip if he catches fire in this series and his numbers spike

Ah you shouldn't speak for everyone, even before the playoffs i didn't have him as a top 5 peak. The playoffs haven't helped and even when hes been on the floor he's been significantly worse than the regular season. The hall pass he gets for his injuries is getting outdated now.

[Nbafanatic]

What's up with these guys with those soccer questions in the finals news conference?! I think it's ridiculous. Steph was polite and gave good answers, but I feel ashamed for the journalists.

[cpower]

Curry could have won the final MVP by putting 25 + shots and let his teammates do all the defense. He is just not that kind of guy. I think we are clearly the better team now and he is happy to let his teammate enjoy the game until he is needed.

2 more games .

[RSCD3_]

Relevent Info that "dooms" the warriors, not like there are other signs but....

In all playoff series, if the team with that year's mvp goes up 2-0, they are 61-0

[te887848]

Greatest offensive season ever is still a possibility if he plays well this series. Top 2-3 peak? Not with how he's played in the playoffs so far (which is only bad when we're talking about the greatest peaks of all time). Lackluster play due to an injury is not an excuse in this type of argument. In fact, missing as many games as he did due to injury hurts him in a GOAT peak argument.

Not really. Jordan and LeBron are the only ones with comparably dominant regular seasons but it didn't lead to the greatest record ever or setting an unbreakable record like 400+ threes. Still, their playoffs were more dominant (I believe health was the only reason Curry didn't maintain his regular season dominance) so I'd not complain at all if one were to rank, say, 91 Jordan or 12 LeBron over 16 Curry. It's definitely debatable though. Anyone else? Nah, highly doubt it.

I would definitely still take a peak Duncan over 2016 Curry. Duncan's regular season was quite a bit worse, but his postseason blows Curry out of the water. Peak Shaq is obvious for me too. I think it's very possible Curry falls out of the top 10 for all time peaks, i'd even consider taking 04 Kg.

I definitely wouldn't. It's a close call depending on your team structure, but Duncan never had a postseason and blew Curry's current postseason out of the water to a greater extent than Curry's regular season blew Duncan's best regular season out of the water.

Shaq is obvious to me too... I'd obviously take peak Curry over peak Shaq. Shaq was never capable of anchoring an offense or a team this dominant. His liability as a P&R defender would also be painfully exposed against a team like the Warriors. Shaq's lack of touch outside of 4 feet from the rim plus his FT shooting woes make him a far less reliable offensive force than Curry.

As far as Garnett... yeah, not even close. He kind of stinks compared to peak Curry. Just a terrible offensive player compared to Curry and not at all capable of leading a team as the #1 option. Hakeem, Garnett, etc were not Jordan or Curry good.

I'll still say Jordan is the greatest peak. After that it's somewhat close between LeBron and Curry, but guys like Hakeem and Garnett are just in a class below. They are nothing close to GOAT peak material.

[2klegend]

As I said, Curry has no business being talk in the GOAT peak. Though, for regular season, we need an asterisk before talk is acceptable.

[therealbig3]

Meh, the fact that the Warriors don't need Curry to do much (other than be the primary focus of the Cavs defense, which is freeing up everyone else) doesn't really say that Curry doesn't belong in the conversation. It says more about the Cavs than anything.

The Warriors are simply beating up on a vastly inferior team. Countless examples throughout history of a star not having a huge series as a result. Doesn't really take away from the star.

[mihail_petkov]

Curry can win the FMVP if he wants but doesn't push hard for it. For example last night he started 4th quarter and played 4-5 minutes vs Cavs scrubs. He didn't force his shot, he still tried to pass to all of his teammates on the court. He is a perfect team player.

He was the FMVP last year. He draws most of the attention, he is doubled every time, even if he doesn't have the best stats, a simple eye test show you that he has the biggest impact for this team.

I guess Warriors wins in 5, so he need 3 games with 23+, 4+, 5+ and he will win the FMVP.

[GSP]

Steph played great in game 2, not the best player on the court on his team but im not sure why ppl are giving him **** and just focusing on box score numbers. He was terrible in game 1 tho and absolutely deserved criticism for that performance and having his backup Pg save the day.

[picc]

Steph is definitely drawing a bunch of attention from Cavs defenders, and its helping the Warriors out. But they're also doing a lot good things on offense independent of him, so its not fair to attribute their success solely, or even mostly, to him.

Further, the past two finals (and the OKC series) have illustrated one aspect of why its been so historically uncommon for teams to win titles on the back of a point guard. Its just easier to take a smaller, less physically imposing player out of the game. Curry is a bit of an outlier since a good shot attempt for him has more margin for error than one for other point guards, but he's been totally invisible for portions of these games because he, like most point guards, uses picks an extraordinary amount of times, and that gives the defense a chance to collapse on him and physically prevent him from getting in scoring position.

Many times I see him just allow himself to be taken out of plays because of the physicality, and his lack of size and athleticism means he needs to be trickier to approach the rim than a player who can just blow by a defender and shoot over the top.

Curry is fortunate to have teammates with playmaking skillsets that can operate autonomously of him, which is why GS is winning. But traditionally, when building around a point guard, teams have stacked themselves with finishers and shooters who - while great complements to an elite point guard - don't have those same skillsets.

The most success he's had scoring has, ironically, seemed to be on isolations with lone defenders, where he can chuck those low % threes that are high % for him.

[juju14]

Steph is definitely drawing a bunch of attention from Cavs defenders, and its helping the Warriors out. But they're also doing a lot good things on offense independent of him, so its not fair to attribute their success solely, or even mostly, to him.

Further, the past two finals (and the OKC series) have illustrated one aspect of why its been so historically uncommon for teams to win titles on the back of a point guard. Its just easier to take a smaller, less physically imposing player out of the game. Curry is a bit of an outlier since a good shot attempt for him has more margin for error than one for other point guards, but he's been totally invisible for portions of these games because he, like most point guards, uses picks an extraordinary amount of times, and that gives the defense a chance to collapse on him and physically prevent him from getting in scoring position.

Many times I see him just allow himself to be taken out of plays because of the physicality, and his lack of size and athleticism means he needs to be trickier to approach the rim than a player who can just blow by a defender and shoot over the top.

Curry is fortunate to have teammates with playmaking skillsets that can operate autonomously of him, which is why GS is winning. But traditionally, when building around a point guard, teams have stacked themselves with finishers and shooters who - while great complements to an elite point guard - don't have those same skillsets.

The most success he's had scoring has, ironically, seemed to be on isolations with lone defenders, where he can chuck those low % threes that are high % for him.

Curry was great in the last 3 games of the okc series through.

[cpower]

Steph is definitely drawing a bunch of attention from Cavs defenders, and its helping the Warriors out. But they're also doing a lot good things on offense independent of him, so its not fair to attribute their success solely, or even mostly, to him.

Further, the past two finals (and the OKC series) have illustrated one aspect of why its been so historically uncommon for teams to win titles on the back of a point guard. Its just easier to take a smaller, less physically imposing player out of the game. Curry is a bit of an outlier since a good shot attempt for him has more margin for error than one for other point guards, but he's been totally invisible for portions of these games because he, like most point guards, uses picks an extraordinary amount of times, and that gives the defense a chance to collapse on him and physically prevent him from getting in scoring position.

Many times I see him just allow himself to be taken out of plays because of the physicality, and his lack of size and athleticism means he needs to be trickier to approach the rim than a player who can just blow by a defender and shoot over the top.

Curry is fortunate to have teammates with playmaking skillsets that can operate autonomously of him, which is why GS is winning. But traditionally, when building around a point guard, teams have stacked themselves with finishers and shooters who - while great complements to an elite point guard - don't have those same skillsets.

The most success he's had scoring has, ironically, seemed to be on isolations with lone defenders, where he can chuck those low % threes that are high % for him.

where were you when his teammates got slammed during okc series?
28/6/6 on 61%TS, that's some good numbers against a tough defensive team which holds/hugs him on every play. Curry had no problem closing out games on 84%TS scoring.

[RSCD3_]

I am incredibly disappointed that curry wont be in the 2016 olympics. I know he needs to heal his knee probably but the warriors could be fine if he came back later. We wont get to see him until 2020

[Doctor MJ]

Man, I just have such a hard time taking criticisms of Curry seriously when they occur while his team is winning in blowouts. The argument people use is straight forward "GOAT supporting cast!", but it just doesn't make basketball sense. The greatness of the team is considerably more than just Curry of course, but it's not about the role players on the team being secret stars, its about the Warriors playing in a way that is both optimized for the current league and is great for teammate confidence...and of course the ideal alpha star for such a team is someone like Steph.

I think the question I'd ask of skeptics is, who would be do a better job than Curry on this Warrior team? To me the only candidates are guys from the past.

[Texas Chuck]

Man, I just have such a hard time taking criticisms of Curry seriously when they occur while his team is winning in blowouts. The argument people use is straight forward "GOAT supporting cast!", but it just doesn't make basketball sense. The greatness of the team is considerably more than just Curry of course, but it's not about the role players on the team being secret stars, its about the Warriors playing in a way that is both optimized for the current league and is great for teammate confidence...and of course the ideal alpha star for such a team is someone like Steph.

I think the question I'd ask of skeptics is, who would be do a better job than Curry on this Warrior team? To me the only candidates are guys from the past.

I think it's even simpler than that for me. Curry's teammates being good have nothing to do with how good he is or isn't. I mean take the best player in the league, give him a well-assembled, smart, and talented set of teammates with a coach who knows what he's doing. Seems like expecting more than 73 wins and another championship is unreasonable.

But Livingston and Iggy being good at basketball certainly doesn't make Curry somehow worse.

[JulesWinnfield]

This is neither here nor there, but last nights game 2 gets another monster tv rating despite a blowout. As someone who pays extremely close attention to these things and is aware of how to adjust for the evolving tech landscape to compare viewership across eras (they are not apples to apples comparisons to say 15-25 years ago for a litany of reasons), it's absolutely inarguable that the Curry Warriors are the leagues biggest draw since Jordan's Bulls. Steph is a bigger draw with more crossover appeal than Lebron, Kobe, Shaq, you name it. He just is. That's not to say anything about his relative greatness compared to those guys, just his ability to draw.

They're growing this game immensely right now with what they're doing in the bay. And beyond just the tangible numbers, I see a boatload of anecdotal evidence in my personal life where the NBA is now a topic of discussion among many in my life that didn't care much at all before. I live in NY and I don't go a day without seeing a kid in a curry jersey. This is only going to grow as their legend accumulates. The networks paid through the nose on this latest tv deal, but they may have gotten a bargain as we enter this era under Golden State rule

[HeartBreakKid]

This is neither here nor there, but last nights game 2 gets another monster tv rating despite a blowout. As someone who pays extremely close attention to these things and is aware of how to adjust for the evolving tech landscape to compare viewership across eras (they are not apples to apples comparisons to say 15-25 years ago for a litany of reasons), it's absolutely inarguable that the Curry Warriors are the leagues biggest draw since Jordan's Bulls. Steph is a bigger draw with more crossover appeal than Lebron, Kobe, Shaq, you name it. He just is. That's not to say anything about his relative greatness compared to those guys, just his ability to draw.

They're growing this game immensely right now with what they're doing in the bay. And beyond just the tangible numbers, I see a boatload of anecdotal evidence in my personal life where the NBA is now a topic of discussion among many in my life that didn't care much at all before. I live in NY and I don't go a day without seeing a kid in a curry jersey. This is only going to grow as their legend accumulates. The networks paid through the nose on this latest tv deal, but they may have gotten a bargain as we enter this era under Golden State rule

I don't really get where your proof is for that comment. Curry is bigger than Bryant and James because you see people wearing his jerseys? I've seen a lot more people wear Bryant jerseys this year alone, and I also live in New York...

The NBA is becoming more popular as the years go by, so allocating that to Curry makes little sense, the Spurs vs Heat series in 2014 had gigantic ratings that broke a few records also, it's bound to happen.

Not to mention that these past two rounds the Warriors have played other teams with huge draws on them.

Stephen Curry is incredibly popular and is the face of the current NBA, but I don't get how there is enough evidence to support that he is bigger than someone like Kobe Bryant.

[JulesWinnfield]

This is neither here nor there, but last nights game 2 gets another monster tv rating despite a blowout. As someone who pays extremely close attention to these things and is aware of how to adjust for the evolving tech landscape to compare viewership across eras (they are not apples to apples comparisons to say 15-25 years ago for a litany of reasons), it's absolutely inarguable that the Curry Warriors are the leagues biggest draw since Jordan's Bulls. Steph is a bigger draw with more crossover appeal than Lebron, Kobe, Shaq, you name it. He just is. That's not to say anything about his relative greatness compared to those guys, just his ability to draw.

They're growing this game immensely right now with what they're doing in the bay. And beyond just the tangible numbers, I see a boatload of anecdotal evidence in my personal life where the NBA is now a topic of discussion among many in my life that didn't care much at all before. I live in NY and I don't go a day without seeing a kid in a curry jersey. This is only going to grow as their legend accumulates. The networks paid through the nose on this latest tv deal, but they may have gotten a bargain as we enter this era under Golden State rule

I don't really get where your proof is for that comment. Curry is bigger than Bryant and James because you see people wearing his jerseys? I've seen a lot more people wear Bryant jerseys this year alone, and I also live in New York...

The NBA is becoming more popular as the years go by, so allocating that to Curry makes little sense, the Spurs vs Heat series in 2014 had gigantic ratings that broke a few records also, it's bound to happen.

Not to mention that these past two rounds the Warriors have played other teams with huge draws on them.

Stephen Curry is incredibly popular and is the face of the current NBA, but I don't get how there is enough evidence to support that he is bigger than someone like Kobe Bryant.

Heat and Spurs of 2014 didn't hold a candle ratings wise to what we are seeing in this series. The Warriors just came off a game 7 which was the most watched cable game ever, then played the most watched finals game 1 in abc history, then just played the second most watched ever game 2 despite a 30 plus point margin. Last years series was the most watched finals in 15 years, and the Warriors presence was the only changing variable. Their regular season numbers are through the roof as someone who closely watches these things. The Warriors run here from a tv ratings standpoint absolutely dwarfs anything in the modern era, and beyond that you can't compare rating across eras for a litany of reasons (more competition channel wise, Internet, streaming, DVR and a million other reasons, raw tv ratings are suppressed today and it's total apples and oranges to 15-20 years ago). These are all absolutely tangible reasons. The part about seeing kids in curry jerseys was totally anecdotal and not relevant to my point. There are undeniable metrics that point to the fact that this group is bringing this game to heights we haven't seen in the modern era. I don't mean to sound disrespectful when I say this, but if you try to deny that you are only doing so from a place of lack of knowledge to the business of basketball on tv. The evidence is there

[HeartBreakKid]

This is neither here nor there, but last nights game 2 gets another monster tv rating despite a blowout. As someone who pays extremely close attention to these things and is aware of how to adjust for the evolving tech landscape to compare viewership across eras (they are not apples to apples comparisons to say 15-25 years ago for a litany of reasons), it's absolutely inarguable that the Curry Warriors are the leagues biggest draw since Jordan's Bulls. Steph is a bigger draw with more crossover appeal than Lebron, Kobe, Shaq, you name it. He just is. That's not to say anything about his relative greatness compared to those guys, just his ability to draw.

They're growing this game immensely right now with what they're doing in the bay. And beyond just the tangible numbers, I see a boatload of anecdotal evidence in my personal life where the NBA is now a topic of discussion among many in my life that didn't care much at all before. I live in NY and I don't go a day without seeing a kid in a curry jersey. This is only going to grow as their legend accumulates. The networks paid through the nose on this latest tv deal, but they may have gotten a bargain as we enter this era under Golden State rule

I don't really get where your proof is for that comment. Curry is bigger than Bryant and James because you see people wearing his jerseys? I've seen a lot more people wear Bryant jerseys this year alone, and I also live in New York...

The NBA is becoming more popular as the years go by, so allocating that to Curry makes little sense, the Spurs vs Heat series in 2014 had gigantic ratings that broke a few records also, it's bound to happen.

Not to mention that these past two rounds the Warriors have played other teams with huge draws on them.

Stephen Curry is incredibly popular and is the face of the current NBA, but I don't get how there is enough evidence to support that he is bigger than someone like Kobe Bryant.

Heat and Spurs of 2014 didn't hold a candle ratings wise to what we are seeing in this series. The Warriors just came off a game 7 which was the most watched cable game ever, then played the most watched finals game 1 in abc history, then just played the second most watched ever game 2 despite a 30 plus point margin. Last years series was the most watched finals in a decade, and the Warriors presence was the only changing variable. Their regular season numbers are through the roof as someone who closely watches these things. The Warriors run here from a tv ratings standpoint absolutely dwarfs anything in the modern era, and beyond that you can't compare rating across eras for a litany of reasons (more competition channel wise, Internet, streaming, DVR and a million other reasons, raw tv ratings are suppressed today and it's total apples and oranges to 15-20 years ago). These are all absolutely tangible reasons. The part about seeing kids in curry jerseys was totally anecdotal and not relevant to my point. There are undeniable metrics that point to the fact that this group is bringing this game to heights we haven't seen in the modern era. I don't mean to sound disrespectful when I say this, but if you try to deny that you are only doing so from a place of lack of knowledge to the business of basketball on tv

You didn't actually back up your point...it wasn't the Warriors that drew those ratings, it was the Warriors vs Thunder, Warriors vs Cavaliers.

The fact that the Heat vs Spurs broke ratings prior to this despite the fact that the Spurs are historically a team that does not generate mass appeal is further proof that the NBA is bound to keep breaking records as media continues to explode. Your argument is like saying that the Jurassic franchise is among the greatest draw of all time because Jurassic World out drew movies that were older than it, which is totally ignoring the change in modern marketing - which changes at a rapid rate....

As for your last sentence, which was disrespectful, you do realize saying "I pay close attention to these things" is not a credential or even a rational argument...

Kobe Bryant played in a different era, which you just admitted cannot properly compare. You talk of lack of knowledge, but you seem to be under the impression that 2010 and 2016 are of the same era in media....they are not.

[JulesWinnfield]

I don't really get where your proof is for that comment. Curry is bigger than Bryant and James because you see people wearing his jerseys? I've seen a lot more people wear Bryant jerseys this year alone, and I also live in New York...

The NBA is becoming more popular as the years go by, so allocating that to Curry makes little sense, the Spurs vs Heat series in 2014 had gigantic ratings that broke a few records also, it's bound to happen.

Not to mention that these past two rounds the Warriors have played other teams with huge draws on them.

Stephen Curry is incredibly popular and is the face of the current NBA, but I don't get how there is enough evidence to support that he is bigger than someone like Kobe Bryant.

Heat and Spurs of 2014 didn't hold a candle ratings wise to what we are seeing in this series. The Warriors just came off a game 7 which was the most watched cable game ever, then played the most watched finals game 1 in abc history, then just played the second most watched ever game 2 despite a 30 plus point margin. Last years series was the most watched finals in a decade, and the Warriors presence was the only changing variable. Their regular season numbers are through the roof as someone who closely watches these things. The Warriors run here from a tv ratings standpoint absolutely dwarfs anything in the modern era, and beyond that you can't compare rating across eras for a litany of reasons (more competition channel wise, Internet, streaming, DVR and a million other reasons, raw tv ratings are suppressed today and it's total apples and oranges to 15-20 years ago). These are all absolutely tangible reasons. The part about seeing kids in curry jerseys was totally anecdotal and not relevant to my point. There are undeniable metrics that point to the fact that this group is bringing this game to heights we haven't seen in the modern era. I don't mean to sound disrespectful when I say this, but if you try to deny that you are only doing so from a place of lack of knowledge to the business of basketball on tv

You didn't actually back up your point...it wasn't the Warriors that drew those ratings, it was the Warriors vs Thunder, Warriors vs Cavaliers.

The fact that the Heat vs Spurs broke ratings prior to this despite the fact that the Spurs are historically a team that does not generate mass appeal is further proof that the NBA is bound to keep breaking records as media continues to explode. Your argument is like saying that the Jurassic franchise is among the greatest draw of all time because Jurassic World out drew movies that were older than it, which is totally ignoring the change in modern marketing - which changes at a rapid rate....

As for your last sentence, which was disrespectful, you do realize saying "I pay close attention to these things" is not a credential or even a rational argument...

You have all sorts of misguided perceptions with regards to tv ratings such as this notion that viewership popularity is some steady arrow pointing upward and that this warrior team is only doing these things because they are the latest. That's just fundamentally wrong. And by the way the 2014 heat Spurs series you keep referencing was actually the least watched series this decade and the only one to fail to average a double digit rating. So I continue to have no clue what you are talking about referencing that over and over. The Warriors are coming off the most watched finals in 15 years (and adjusted for the current climate arguably the most impressive audience ever), they're on course to break that this year. Regular season wise they are basically 2:1 over anybody else. I really don't mean to sound short here but I don't feel the need to spend much more time in this conversation because I'm talking with somebody who is frankly woefully uneducated on this topic. And that's not meant to be insulting, I don't expect anyone to pay close attention to these things or give a damn. You are the normal one among us two. My friends find the fact that I'm interested deeply in such things to be bizarre.