Your Unpopular Basketball Opinions? [PC Board Edition]

[ShotCreator]

Chris Paul is a very good defender. As good as bigger, longer defenders as a help/team defender, and is elite on D in general, not just for his size or position.

[PaulieWal]

Not sure how unpopular (or even relevant) this is, but I would still rather have a healthy Chris Paul than Russell Westbrook.

Except a "healthy Chris Paul" doesn't exist in the real world.

Stick around, you can catch him in a couple of hours or so.

You know what I mean....

In a vacuum sure you can make a case for CP being better than every guard in the league except for Curry but he just isn't someone who I would call a healthy player. When you are going to be missing 15-20 games every year or you are going to be hurt in the playoffs year after year, I am not taking him over RUss.

[Fadeaway_J]

Except a "healthy Chris Paul" doesn't exist in the real world.

Stick around, you can catch him in a couple of hours or so.

You know what I mean....

In a vacuum sure you can make a case for CP being better than every guard in the league except for Curry but he just isn't someone who I would call a healthy player. When you are going to be missing 15-20 games every year or you are going to be hurt in the playoffs year after year, I am not taking him over RUss.

Well that's why I prefaced it by saying I'm not sure how relevant it is. Although I suspect there are quite a few people who would disagree with me even if Paul could magically stay healthy.

[Clyde Frazier]

Here's another unpopular opinion:

Kobe was the most talented passer of any SG and had the talent to average 10 APG. He just wasn't the most willing passer, and was somewhat stifled by the Triangle for most of his career when it came to assist opportunities.

That is an unusual opinion. Though I'm interested to hear more about why you think this. I've argued for Kobe's passing ability in the past, but I haven't seen as much of Kobe's career as I would like, so I must concede a degree of uncertainty. Any seasons or series where Kobe's passing was on full display? Summer's approaching and I'll actually have time to start watching games again.


My unpopular opinion: There's over 10 legitimate GOAT candidates.

Watch his 2012-13 season, where there was a stretch where he was assist hunting in the most blatant way possible. That was a D'antoni system being run too. Anyways, he showed some absolutely awesome passing skills that he could've utilized more.

I've said it before, but instead of taking 18.1 FGAs per game on 47.3% TS his last 2 seasons, would've loved to see him play pass first PG instead. Would've been more entertaining and beneficial to the team.

[Fadeaway_J]

That is an unusual opinion. Though I'm interested to hear more about why you think this. I've argued for Kobe's passing ability in the past, but I haven't seen as much of Kobe's career as I would like, so I must concede a degree of uncertainty. Any seasons or series where Kobe's passing was on full display? Summer's approaching and I'll actually have time to start watching games again.


My unpopular opinion: There's over 10 legitimate GOAT candidates.

Watch his 2012-13 season, where there was a stretch where he was assist hunting in the most blatant way possible. That was a D'antoni system being run too. Anyways, he showed some absolutely awesome passing skills that he could've utilized more.

I've said it before, but instead of taking 18.1 FGAs per game on 47.3% TS his last 2 seasons, would've loved to see him play pass first PG instead. Would've been more entertaining and beneficial to the team.

Honestly, there wasn't much of a path for Kobe to be beneficial to the team given the state he was in over the last couple of seasons. Especially last season. Some of his passing was almost as hideous as his shooting.

[Clyde Frazier]

Watch his 2012-13 season, where there was a stretch where he was assist hunting in the most blatant way possible. That was a D'antoni system being run too. Anyways, he showed some absolutely awesome passing skills that he could've utilized more.

I've said it before, but instead of taking 18.1 FGAs per game on 47.3% TS his last 2 seasons, would've loved to see him play pass first PG instead. Would've been more entertaining and beneficial to the team.

Honestly, there wasn't much of a path for Kobe to be beneficial to the team given the state he was in over the last couple of seasons. Especially last season. Some of his passing was almost as hideous as his shooting.

"Beneficial" is a relative term, obviously... just seeing a guy chuck up shots at that volume when he literally can't play anymore was tough to watch. A shift in play for some high assist games would've been a more interesting exit.

[Dr Positivity]

Dwight's post-Magic career should affect how his Magic career is rated

[LoyalKing]

Mine is probably one of the most unpopular around the board.

To me Greg Popovich and RC Buford are overrated. Since Leonard's draft (great trade no doubt), the Spurs have been totally underwhelming in the draft.They have zero guys from 12/13/14/15/16 in the playoff rotation this season. RC Buford has some hits and misses like every other GM in the league, but I don't think he is something special as a GM. Not to mention re-signing TP to a massive deal when he was absolutely done.

if Duncan never goes to San Antonio, I'm sure he would have had a HOF career somewhere else, while Popovich would have been kicked out of the NBA 10 years ago and nobody would even know who he is right now, just like Bob Hill.

That military style would never work without someone like Duncan and I'm not sure if Tony Parker and Ginobili would follow his lead without Duncan's greatness and lockeroom presence.

[Texas Chuck]

Speaking of Cousins, I may as well drop this one: I'm not sure he was one of the best 20 players in the league this season and I think giving him a 30% max will set your franchise back a long way.

I've been beating this drum for awhile now.

Another reminder that we should all listen to you more often.

Or even a broken clock is right twice a day.....

[microfib4thewin]

Dwight's post-Magic career should affect how his Magic career is rated

Given what we know of his post Magic career it definitely makes me question his effectiveness if he's not surrounded with four shooters. Maybe it's the back injury, but his lack of improvement in both physical skills and basketball IQ makes me lean towards the Magic having the perfect system to make him look good.

[Dr Positivity]

I also have concerns about how his defense fell off. I'm not satisfied with blaming it on athletic decline alone considering how much of defense for a big man is positional IQ.

That and leadership concerns. I assume he didn't just wake up a manbaby in his late 20s

[Ambrose]

Dwight's post-Magic career should affect how his Magic career is rated

Given what we know of his post Magic career it definitely makes me question his effectiveness if he's not surrounded with four shooters. Maybe it's the back injury, but his lack of improvement in both physical skills and basketball IQ makes me lean towards the Magic having the perfect system to make him look good.

Offensively I agree that he was in an ideal system. Defensively his Magic teams would be an absolute train-wreck without him though. He was a hell of a defensive anchor, that much cannot be denied.

[sp6r=underrated]

Mine is probably one of the most unpopular around the board.

To me Greg Popovich and RC Buford are overrated. Since Leonard's draft (great trade no doubt), the Spurs have been totally underwhelming in the draft.They have zero guys from 12/13/14/15/16 in the playoff rotation this season. RC Buford has some hits and misses like every other GM in the league, but I don't think he is something special as a GM. Not to mention re-signing TP to a massive deal when he was absolutely done.

if Duncan never goes to San Antonio, I'm sure he would have had a HOF career somewhere else, while Popovich would have been kicked out of the NBA 10 years ago and nobody would even know who he is right now, just like Bob Hill.

That military style would never work without someone like Duncan and I'm not sure if Tony Parker and Ginobili would follow his lead without Duncan's greatness and lockeroom presence.

This is a great post, and I don't mean that sarcastically, for an unpopular opinion thread.

[Baski]

Hmmm...Not sure if these are unpopular opinions still on the P.C. Board, but let's see:

1. Michael Jordan is the GOAT scorer, and Kobe Bryant is the second greatest scorer ever.
2. KAJ is the GOAT.
3. Making shots isn't that important for offensive superstars, particularly offensive superstars who volume score.
4. Hakeem Olajuwon from 1986-1992 is a truly great player. He is not two levels below 93-97 Olajuwon. He is a level below.
5. Blake Griffin at his best might be as good or better than Charles Barkley at his best.
6. Dirk Nowitzki's peak is 2009 and 2010, not his MVP 2007 or Finals appearances in 2006 and 2011.
7. Draymond Green is the most portable player ever. He is also unique (though his uniqueness is partially resulting from era).
8. DeAndre Jordan is deserving of his accolades.
9. Russell Westbrook was a top-5ish player from 2012-2014 when healthy (so pretty much pre-popular GOATbrook).
10. Specialists with auxiliary skills (Such as an elite 3-point shooter who can also post up) are underappreciated relative to slightly superior specialist who lack such auxiliary skills.

I'd say the bolded are pretty unpopular.

I actually kind of agree with 3 - whether a shot goes in on any given attempt isn't as important as being able to create an overall team offense/force defensive adjustments. Even if Dirk was shooting 1/16 I still have to play his mid-range shot honestly, and that makes life a lot easier for the rest of his team.

Same on the flip side - a relatively limited scorer could be on fire for a certain game, but his teammates might be left with tougher shots which hurts the overall offense. It's part of the reason why I think efficiency is overrated.

I disagree that efficiency is overrated.
The reason Dirk is still respected even when he's cold is that he is usually a dangerous threat and thus you never know when he's going to start hitting them at his usual clip. If i had a nickel for everytime a scorer like Kyrie Irving or Kobe for example starts a game shooting 1 for 10 and then finishes 11 for 27 with a game winner, I'd have like $1000. Same goes for KD. Dude is a 4-time scoring champ who achieved 50/40/90. You really wanna leave him open because he's bricking some shots early on?
There's a difference between KD taking 30 shots and Rondo(pardon the extreme example) doing the same as to how it affects the other team's defensive scheme. The reason is simply that one of them is on average more efficient than the other.



I LOVE CARROT CAKE!!!!!!

[Senior]

I disagree that efficiency is overrated.
The reason Dirk is still respected even when he's cold is that he is usually a dangerous threat and thus you never know when he's going to start hitting them at his usual clip. If i had a nickel for everytime a scorer like Kyrie Irving or Kobe for example starts a game shooting 1 for 10 and then finishes 11 for 27 with a game winner, I'd have like $1000. Same goes for KD. Dude is a 4-time scoring champ who achieved 50/40/90. You really wanna leave him open because he's bricking some shots early on?

I LOVE CARROT CAKE!!!!!!

???

This is exactly my point. The Kobe/Kyrie example just supports that. Kyrie/Kobe could be cold the entire game but finish like you said because they're good scorers from like everywhere on the court and eventually they're probably going to start making some shots.

It's just as you said. Teams would be stupid to leave KD/Kobe/Kyrie open just because they're shooting 7/23. Their whole team offense can function the way it does because of their threats to make shots from many spots on the floor, even if they're not making them in any particular game. Again, I don't care that Dirk's shooting 8/25 in a given game, I care that he's a major shooting threat at any given point in the game.

The difference between 45% FG and 50% FG for a guy taking 20 shots a game is 1 miss. Discussing efficiency as if dudes are taking 100 shots a game is useless.

[Baski]

1. This new wave of "score first" point guards is BS and destroying the league. They are nothing more than natural shooting guards who want to have the ball in their hands more so they can chuck like AI and so migrate to the PG position. This trend will lead to PGs leading teams in every statistical category on the regular, and one day there's gonna be a smallball team with a 6'0" center. Defined positions in basketball are extremely important and having one player infringe on the roles of others will diminish their teammates' impact (I'm looking at you Russ)

2. Russell Westbrook is not a better player today than he was in April 2016 and he is indeed the MVP favourite largely because of the triple double narrative, as much as his defenders would like to deny that. Without it he drops to 4th in the race at best. Not taking anything away from it. It is a phenomenal achievement and should push him up to favourite. I just disagree that he's played well enough to be MVP in spite of it.

3. Kyrie Irving is in fact not the perfect fit next to Lebron. That's baloney. His finals performance has overrated him to never before seen heights. He seems to be aware of this as well because he has made almost no improvements to his game since last year. The perfect fit next to Lebron is a good playmaker with an at least decent shot who is a good defender(think a rich man's Delly, like Mike Conley) or a superstar level defensive big man like Gobert or prime Howard without the attitude.

4. Draymond Green is not a good enough player to warrant his cocky attitude. He would be nothing without GSW.

5. The Spurs have a good shot at beating the Warriors in 6 games this year.

6. Kawhi's work ethic is second only to Kobe Bryant's

7. Giannis is never going to develop a dependable jumpshot because that would make him the definition of unstoppable. Basketball just doesn't work like that(see Lebron James)




I LOVE CARROT CAKE!!!!!!

[NormanDale]

Mine is probably one of the most unpopular around the board.

To me Greg Popovich and RC Buford are overrated. Since Leonard's draft (great trade no doubt), the Spurs have been totally underwhelming in the draft.They have zero guys from 12/13/14/15/16 in the playoff rotation this season. RC Buford has some hits and misses like every other GM in the league, but I don't think he is something special as a GM. Not to mention re-signing TP to a massive deal when he was absolutely done.

if Duncan never goes to San Antonio, I'm sure he would have had a HOF career somewhere else, while Popovich would have been kicked out of the NBA 10 years ago and nobody would even know who he is right now, just like Bob Hill.

That military style would never work without someone like Duncan and I'm not sure if Tony Parker and Ginobili would follow his lead without Duncan's greatness and lockeroom presence.

I disagree about Pop, but I am sympathetic to this point of view about buford. That's because of my unpopular opinion:

Drafting skill does not exist in the modern nba. It's like stock picking, where past success is no indication of future success, and someone has to be a "genius" if only by luck.

Hinkie was right about this (as he was about many things).

[Baski]

I disagree that efficiency is overrated.
The reason Dirk is still respected even when he's cold is that he is usually a dangerous threat and thus you never know when he's going to start hitting them at his usual clip. If i had a nickel for everytime a scorer like Kyrie Irving or Kobe for example starts a game shooting 1 for 10 and then finishes 11 for 27 with a game winner, I'd have like $1000. Same goes for KD. Dude is a 4-time scoring champ who achieved 50/40/90. You really wanna leave him open because he's bricking some shots early on?

I LOVE CARROT CAKE!!!!!!

???

This is exactly my point. The Kobe/Kyrie example just supports that. Kyrie/Kobe could be cold the entire game but finish like you said because they're good scorers from like everywhere on the court and eventually they're probably going to start making some shots.

It's just as you said. Teams would be stupid to leave KD/Kobe/Kyrie open just because they're shooting 7/23. Their whole team offense can function the way it does because of their threats to make shots from many spots on the floor, even if they're not making them in any particular game. Again, I don't care that Dirk's shooting 8/25 in a given game, I care that he's a major shooting threat at any given point in the game.

The difference between 45% FG and 50% FG for a guy taking 20 shots a game is 1 miss. Discussing efficiency as if dudes are taking 100 shots a game is useless.

Yeah we mostly agree. I'm saying that this doesn't lead to the conclusion that efficiency is overrated, because at the end of the day, these players we're talking about as scoring threats became scoring threats because they can hit those shots at respectable percentages. The reason Dirk is defended tightly when he's 1/16 is that he has proven he will most likely go 15/30 by his past performances. He needed to be very efficient to warrant tight coverage even when he's not hitting them.
Maybe it's a wording issue but "efficiency is overrated" gives me the impression that someone can come into the league shooting 34% on 30 shots per game his whole career and still have as good an effect on team offense as a more efficient scorer.

I LOVE CARROT CAKE!!!!!!

[Doctor MJ]

Dwight's post-Magic career should affect how his Magic career is rated

Given what we know of his post Magic career it definitely makes me question his effectiveness if he's not surrounded with four shooters. Maybe it's the back injury, but his lack of improvement in both physical skills and basketball IQ makes me lean towards the Magic having the perfect system to make him look good.

I agree with you both and I'll add something:

Every once in a while you get a guy who will become unhappy no matter what you do. To me Howard is one of those guys given what we know now and it totally changes how I evaluate him in Orlando.

First you have the general sense of someone you can't trust who is a bad influence.

But consider '10-11, the year when he was my choice for MVP. In the name of desperately trying to improve with a sense already that Howard was dissatisfied with his help, the team made trades to focus on players who could work with Howard rather than allow for compatible depth on the bench. The team got worse not simply when Howard went to the bench, but got worse over all and never recovered.

At the time I noted this but gave Howard the benefit of the doubt. At this point though it's clear that the team had been just about perfect for Howard before...and Howard still found reason to complain.

I now see Howard as a guy you can't expect to build around long-term no matter where he gets drafted, and sine he's not Shaq or Wilt good, that actually makes it so that it's hard to imagine winning titles with him.

And yes, I know he came close. Not saying it is impossible. But man, it's like winning a slot machine jackpot.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Senior]

Yeah we mostly agree. I'm saying that this doesn't lead to the conclusion that efficiency is overrated, because at the end of the day, these players we're talking about as scoring threats became scoring threats because they can hit those shots at respectable percentages. The reason Dirk is defended tightly when he's 1/16 is that he has proven he will most likely go 15/30 by his past performances. He needed to be very efficient to warrant tight coverage even when he's not hitting them.
Maybe it's a wording issue but "efficiency is overrated" gives me the impression that someone can come into the league shooting 34% on 30 shots per game his whole career and still have as good an effect on team offense as a more efficient scorer.

I LOVE CARROT CAKE!!!!!!

Yeah, that's fine. I was discussing efficiency in terms of the players discussed more on the PC board. No one shooting 35% for 30 ppg is leading their team to any offenses worth talking about. Most of the players we talk about here are good. Efficiency's overrated, but it's not THAT overrated.

When I said overrated, I meant overrated in terms of using it as a major tiebreaker in evaluating a player comparison. Most of the efficiency gods usually aren't able or willing to take the shots a player with lower efficiency might be comfortable taking, so their offenses tend to slip a little more in the playoffs or against better defenses, despite the efficiency difference. I guarantee you that efficiency gods like Harden, D-Rob, Malone, Durant saw their efficiency or volume slip more in the playoffs by TS% compared to guys like Hakeem or Kobe, even though the first group of guys had better efficiency in the RS.

Think about like this - one guy could put up 63% TS on 18 FGA and another could be at 57% TS on 23 attempts, but what the box score doesn't tell you is that the 18 FGA guy probably passed up shots that the 23 FGA guy could take. That might not be so bad if your teammates have a good look or something, but what if they don't? Then instead of a 35-40% shot that your superstar can make, you end up with some BS shot where the teammates have to make something out of nothing with the shot clock winding down - maybe in the 10-20% conversion rate - or worse, a turnover.