2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread

[E-Balla]

yeah bam's the heat's best player. Butler hella overrated.

Jimmy was their best player against Indiana and Milwaukee

Just b.c our bigs are cheeks doesnt mean Bams better. Joel Embiids basic ass put up 30PPG on 60ts on our bigs

indiana isn't ****.

BAM was easily the most pivotal part of the bucks series. Nuetralizing giannis both on offense and defense was by the far the most valuable contribution of the series. Butler's marginally more impressive scoring doesn't really match up to that and his passing may not even be as valauble as bam's rim gravity.

Off course, i don't even know if i can say butler's scoring was more impressive given bam wasmostly doing it against giannis and lopez.

Marginally???

Jimmy basically single handedly won them 2 of those games with his scoring. He had a 15 point 4th quarter and then outscored the Bucks 17-13 in another one. Dude was murdering them.

Like GSP said the Boston bigs are horrible, BAM should be eating.

Overall I think my top 5 might have to have AD at #1. He's just vastly outplaying LeBron so far against Denver and he's been the better player all postseason. It'll feel weird giving LeBron the top spot when I don't feel like he's the best player on his team. AD is getting scary good. Best big since prime Shaq/Duncan?

[freethedevil]

Jimmy was their best player against Indiana and Milwaukee

Just b.c our bigs are cheeks doesnt mean Bams better. Joel Embiids basic ass put up 30PPG on 60ts on our bigs

indiana isn't ****.

BAM was easily the most pivotal part of the bucks series. Nuetralizing giannis both on offense and defense was by the far the most valuable contribution of the series. Butler's marginally more impressive scoring doesn't really match up to that and his passing may not even be as valauble as bam's rim gravity.

Off course, i don't even know if i can say butler's scoring was more impressive given bam wasmostly doing it against giannis and lopez.

Marginally???

Jimmy basically single handedly won them 2 of those games with his scoring. He had a 15 point 4th quarter and then outscored the Bucks 17-13 in another one. Dude was murdering them.

nice cherrypick. did you forget when he lost them game 5? or when he disappeared in game 3? Butler was inconsistent as ****. Bam's defense was constant and he was conssitently keeping giannis in check on the other end of the floor. Bam was the most pivotal part of series. Heat aren't the raptors on the perimiter, but bam made sure it didn't matter. No one else in the league could have done the job bam did on giannis save for maybe ad and simmons. And he was as effecient as jimmy in terms of scoring despite having to deal the most with the bucks best defensively. Butler's game 1 4th quarter explosion by contrast came largely by feasting on corver and pat. BAm on the other hand was forcing giannis to choose between allowing a dunk or getting sent flying all series.

Also, why are you talking about how bam should be feasting against the celtics but ignoring that he also feasted on the bucks?

Butler can get bonus points for leadership or whatever, but bam's clearly the more valuable player.

Agreed on lebron though.

[No-more-rings]

So while the rest of the playoffs need to be completed, i do think Jokic and Davis will almost for sure be in my top 5 barring some big melt down or injury from either.

Luka was in almost everyone's top 5 at one point, and now it's kind of hard to see him making it at all. I do think it will be both a fun and difficult year to rank a top 5 though, things are always changing from series to series. While this won't be unanimous i do think the top 5 in some order for most will be Lebron, Davis, Jokic, Giannis and Kawhi. Giannis will be harder to rank than anyone, he was the clear best in the regular season, but it's also clear there was 3 or 4 guys you'd be better off with in a playoff run.

[Doctor MJ]

Thinking a lot about LeBron vs AD right now.

I have to say, I still think chances are really strong I'm going to put LeBron ahead of AD even though AD looks better right now. The combination of LeBron being the better player over the bulk of the year with a glaring +/- lead along with LeBron being a more clear cut alpha leader than you almost ever see is essentially LeBron building the context on which not just AD but everyone else thrives.

Maybe I'll change my mind on that, because AD breaking out as a worthy MVP-type player seems likely to be end up as the lasting aftertaste post-post-season, but regardless of where I side on that particular debate, I think we are seeing how it can end up being the top 2 POY guys from the same team.

Not wanting to take anything away from Jokic though. The way he looked down the stretch in the 4th just hammers in again that there doesn't seem to be any level of human opponent where he doesn't hold his own and show a way to outthink them. That play last night with the tip-in on the airball was just such classic Jokic. As soon as I thought "Whoa that's not even going to hit the rim..." Jokic had his hand on it tipping it in for a bucket. And then I the thought "Because of course he did". He's just smarter than everybody else on the court in a way that seems to prove useful whenever there's chaos on the interior...which is quite often.

[ardee]

Thinking a lot about LeBron vs AD right now.

I have to say, I still think chances are really strong I'm going to put LeBron ahead of AD even though AD looks better right now. The combination of LeBron being the better player over the bulk of the year with a glaring +/- lead along with LeBron being a more clear cut alpha leader than you almost ever see is essentially LeBron building the context on which not just AD but everyone else thrives.

Maybe I'll change my mind on that, because AD breaking out as a worthy MVP-type player seems likely to be end up as the lasting aftertaste post-post-season, but regardless of where I side on that particular debate, I think we are seeing how it can end up being the top 2 POY guys from the same team.

Not wanting to take anything away from Jokic though. The way he looked down the stretch in the 4th just hammers in again that there doesn't seem to be any level of human opponent where he doesn't hold his own and show a way to outthink them. That play last night with the tip-in on the airball was just such classic Jokic. As soon as I thought "Whoa that's not even going to hit the rim..." Jokic had his hand on it tipping it in for a bucket. And then I the thought "Because of course he did". He's just smarter than everybody else on the court in a way that seems to prove useful whenever there's chaos on the interior...which is quite often.

I think if LeBron has the better Finals we'll end up voting him 1. It'll be like 2001 Shaq and Kobe.

[ardee]

So the two players of the year might actually be from the same team. That’s crazy. Has that happened before?

It has in 2001.

RealGM voted Kobe 3 but let's be real, this board even now doesn't treat Kobe fairly and some of the posters from back then were even more anti-Kobe.

I don't see how anyone can watch the 2001 Playoffs in their entirety and conclude that Duncan was better than Kobe that year.... because you'd be saying non-peak Duncan is better than someone who played at peak Jordan level.

[E-Balla]

nice cherrypick. did you forget when he lost them game 5? or when he disappeared in game 3? Butler was inconsistent as ****. Bam's defense was constant and he was conssitently keeping giannis in check on the other end of the floor. Bam was the most pivotal part of series. Heat aren't the raptors on the perimiter, but bam made sure it didn't matter. No one else in the league could have done the job bam did on giannis save for maybe ad and simmons. And he was as effecient as jimmy in terms of scoring despite having to deal the most with the bucks best defensively. Butler's game 1 4th quarter explosion by contrast came largely by feasting on corver and pat. BAm on the other hand was forcing giannis to choose between allowing a dunk or getting sent flying all series.

Also, why are you talking about how bam should be feasting against the celtics but ignoring that he also feasted on the bucks?

Butler can get bonus points for leadership or whatever, but bam's clearly the more valuable player.

Agreed on lebron though.

You're saying Jimmy lost them game 4 because he only scored 17 when Bam averaged 17 a night against Milwaukee. Jimmy isn't a scorer, he's a do what he needs to do to winner. Bam wasn't feasting on the Bucks he feasted in games 3 and 4. The other 3 games he was good but was just another guy in their ensemble cast.

[MyUniBroDavis]

So the two players of the year might actually be from the same team. That’s crazy. Has that happened before?

It has in 2001.

RealGM voted Kobe 3 but let's be real, this board even now doesn't treat Kobe fairly and some of the posters from back then were even more anti-Kobe.

I don't see how anyone can watch the 2001 Playoffs in their entirety and conclude that Duncan was better than Kobe that year.... because you'd be saying non-peak Duncan is better than someone who played at peak Jordan level.

I think kobe gets alot of undue hate because of his field goal data but once you look at the synergy data he looks pretty darn great. His effeciency in the halfcourt was higher than bron and wade in 09 in terms of ppp.

From a percentule based standpoint relative to the league its higher than hardens was this hear as well

[E-Balla]

Thinking a lot about LeBron vs AD right now.

I have to say, I still think chances are really strong I'm going to put LeBron ahead of AD even though AD looks better right now. The combination of LeBron being the better player over the bulk of the year with a glaring +/- lead along with LeBron being a more clear cut alpha leader than you almost ever see is essentially LeBron building the context on which not just AD but everyone else thrives.

Maybe I'll change my mind on that, because AD breaking out as a worthy MVP-type player seems likely to be end up as the lasting aftertaste post-post-season, but regardless of where I side on that particular debate, I think we are seeing how it can end up being the top 2 POY guys from the same team.

Not wanting to take anything away from Jokic though. The way he looked down the stretch in the 4th just hammers in again that there doesn't seem to be any level of human opponent where he doesn't hold his own and show a way to outthink them. That play last night with the tip-in on the airball was just such classic Jokic. As soon as I thought "Whoa that's not even going to hit the rim..." Jokic had his hand on it tipping it in for a bucket. And then I the thought "Because of course he did". He's just smarter than everybody else on the court in a way that seems to prove useful whenever there's chaos on the interior...which is quite often.

As far as the +/- lead AD has the +/- lead in the playoffs with a +24 on/off this postseason (Lebron has a +14). And they play a lot of minutes without the other one (each at around 10 mpg) and LeBron without AD has a +4.6 NetRTG while AD without LeBron has a +13.3 NetRTG.

I really still want to take LeBron but if this continues through the Finals I don't think I can take him knowing that his best level of play and AD's best level of play aren't even really that close.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Thinking a lot about LeBron vs AD right now.

I have to say, I still think chances are really strong I'm going to put LeBron ahead of AD even though AD looks better right now. The combination of LeBron being the better player over the bulk of the year with a glaring +/- lead along with LeBron being a more clear cut alpha leader than you almost ever see is essentially LeBron building the context on which not just AD but everyone else thrives.

Maybe I'll change my mind on that, because AD breaking out as a worthy MVP-type player seems likely to be end up as the lasting aftertaste post-post-season, but regardless of where I side on that particular debate, I think we are seeing how it can end up being the top 2 POY guys from the same team.

Not wanting to take anything away from Jokic though. The way he looked down the stretch in the 4th just hammers in again that there doesn't seem to be any level of human opponent where he doesn't hold his own and show a way to outthink them. That play last night with the tip-in on the airball was just such classic Jokic. As soon as I thought "Whoa that's not even going to hit the rim..." Jokic had his hand on it tipping it in for a bucket. And then I the thought "Because of course he did". He's just smarter than everybody else on the court in a way that seems to prove useful whenever there's chaos on the interior...which is quite often.

Im fairly sure id vote lebron, but in terms of how the team is built i think its fair to note that when lebrons off the court the lakers become the literal worst team you could build around AD.

I think thats important because it will make lebrons impact seem bigger than it is, since it makes it seem like lebron makes AD like this, or AD needs lebron, but its more so that, the lakers dont actually have a player that can run a pick and roll outside of lebron which is absurd, and the two guys arent good playmakers (in the rs at least) and are worse scorers off of it.

That, on top of the fact that the lakers are a bottom ten shooting team and proba ly worse than that considering they have 2 out of the 3 best guys at drawing gravity to the rim, means that you have league worst playmaking, and i mean g league tier, and like league average offensive coaching built around the best off ball big in the league

Playoffs he randomly because an on ball god tho so thats fun

But itd be the equivilant of putting jokic with a p and r guy thats no scoring threat and a team with bad shooting, or klay in a team with no primary ball handler, or butler in a team of highschoolers, etc etc

[MyUniBroDavis]

Thinking a lot about LeBron vs AD right now.

I have to say, I still think chances are really strong I'm going to put LeBron ahead of AD even though AD looks better right now. The combination of LeBron being the better player over the bulk of the year with a glaring +/- lead along with LeBron being a more clear cut alpha leader than you almost ever see is essentially LeBron building the context on which not just AD but everyone else thrives.

Maybe I'll change my mind on that, because AD breaking out as a worthy MVP-type player seems likely to be end up as the lasting aftertaste post-post-season, but regardless of where I side on that particular debate, I think we are seeing how it can end up being the top 2 POY guys from the same team.

Not wanting to take anything away from Jokic though. The way he looked down the stretch in the 4th just hammers in again that there doesn't seem to be any level of human opponent where he doesn't hold his own and show a way to outthink them. That play last night with the tip-in on the airball was just such classic Jokic. As soon as I thought "Whoa that's not even going to hit the rim..." Jokic had his hand on it tipping it in for a bucket. And then I the thought "Because of course he did". He's just smarter than everybody else on the court in a way that seems to prove useful whenever there's chaos on the interior...which is quite often.

As far as the +/- lead AD has the +/- lead in the playoffs with a +24 on/off this postseason (Lebron has a +14). And they play a lot of minutes without the other one (each at around 10 mpg) and LeBron without AD has a +4.6 NetRTG while AD without LeBron has a +13.3 NetRTG.

I really still want to take LeBron but if this continues through the Finals I don't think I can take him knowing that his best level of play and AD's best level of play aren't even really that close.

Tbf lebrons best has definately been better than ADs best but he hasnt been hitting it as much, some of it because it takes him a bit longer to respond to adjustments sometimes but sometimes it just feels like he doesnt need to

[mikejames23]

Just like I predicted Jokic bounced back for Game 2. I would love to see him in Games 3 and 4, see how it turns out. He was dangerous up till the 4th quarter and the very end plays. Unfortunately, Denver fell about a point short in their roleplayer contributions. Need the bench for slightly 5-10 points more, IMO, and it becomes comfortable for Denver to pull a win. Harris, Craig, Plumlee and Morris take a ton of minutes to not add a few more points in the rotation.

Jokic himself looks unstoppable so far. Intrigued to see how Games 3 and 4 turn out. I still expect Denver to put up a fight with a little more added help here and there.

[E-Balla]

Thinking a lot about LeBron vs AD right now.

I have to say, I still think chances are really strong I'm going to put LeBron ahead of AD even though AD looks better right now. The combination of LeBron being the better player over the bulk of the year with a glaring +/- lead along with LeBron being a more clear cut alpha leader than you almost ever see is essentially LeBron building the context on which not just AD but everyone else thrives.

Maybe I'll change my mind on that, because AD breaking out as a worthy MVP-type player seems likely to be end up as the lasting aftertaste post-post-season, but regardless of where I side on that particular debate, I think we are seeing how it can end up being the top 2 POY guys from the same team.

Not wanting to take anything away from Jokic though. The way he looked down the stretch in the 4th just hammers in again that there doesn't seem to be any level of human opponent where he doesn't hold his own and show a way to outthink them. That play last night with the tip-in on the airball was just such classic Jokic. As soon as I thought "Whoa that's not even going to hit the rim..." Jokic had his hand on it tipping it in for a bucket. And then I the thought "Because of course he did". He's just smarter than everybody else on the court in a way that seems to prove useful whenever there's chaos on the interior...which is quite often.

As far as the +/- lead AD has the +/- lead in the playoffs with a +24 on/off this postseason (Lebron has a +14). And they play a lot of minutes without the other one (each at around 10 mpg) and LeBron without AD has a +4.6 NetRTG while AD without LeBron has a +13.3 NetRTG.

I really still want to take LeBron but if this continues through the Finals I don't think I can take him knowing that his best level of play and AD's best level of play aren't even really that close.

Tbf lebrons best has definately been better than ADs best but he hasnt been hitting it as much, some of it because it takes him a bit longer to respond to adjustments sometimes but sometimes it just feels like he doesnt need to

LeBron's best prior to this season maybe. During this season LeBron hasn't played as well as AD is all year for any stretch and his best single game isn't better than AD's either.

[yoyoboy]

LeBron was clearly ahead of Davis in the RS but I would definitely give AD the lead in these playoffs. If that continues all the way to a potential Finals victory then Davis will have to be my POY. At his best LeBron has looked pretty great in the playoffs, but he's had some very mortal looking games - particularly in terms of being a halfcourt scoring threat - while Davis has been really consistent, especially because even when his shot is off he's having such a major impact defensively.

[MyUniBroDavis]

As far as the +/- lead AD has the +/- lead in the playoffs with a +24 on/off this postseason (Lebron has a +14). And they play a lot of minutes without the other one (each at around 10 mpg) and LeBron without AD has a +4.6 NetRTG while AD without LeBron has a +13.3 NetRTG.

I really still want to take LeBron but if this continues through the Finals I don't think I can take him knowing that his best level of play and AD's best level of play aren't even really that close.

Tbf lebrons best has definately been better than ADs best but he hasnt been hitting it as much, some of it because it takes him a bit longer to respond to adjustments sometimes but sometimes it just feels like he doesnt need to

LeBron's best prior to this season maybe. During this season LeBron hasn't played as well as AD is all year for any stretch and his best single game isn't better than AD's either.

I still feel more confident in lebron taking over and that he has an extra gear he'll hit in the finals

I think AD's playoff run so far has been on a different level though, lebron been great as well but all things considered what AD is doing in his situation is insane

[E-Balla]

Tbf lebrons best has definately been better than ADs best but he hasnt been hitting it as much, some of it because it takes him a bit longer to respond to adjustments sometimes but sometimes it just feels like he doesnt need to

LeBron's best prior to this season maybe. During this season LeBron hasn't played as well as AD is all year for any stretch and his best single game isn't better than AD's either.

I still feel more confident in lebron taking over and that he has an extra gear he'll hit in the finals

I think AD's playoff run so far has been on a different level though, lebron been great as well but all things considered what AD is doing in his situation is insane

You feel more confident in LeBron turning it up based on things he did 2 years ago. Remember playoff mode last season? He's aging, doesn't have that extra gear he used to have. Now he has an extra gear that's just better than everyone not named Anthony Davis.

[MyUniBroDavis]

LeBron's best prior to this season maybe. During this season LeBron hasn't played as well as AD is all year for any stretch and his best single game isn't better than AD's either.

I still feel more confident in lebron taking over and that he has an extra gear he'll hit in the finals

I think AD's playoff run so far has been on a different level though, lebron been great as well but all things considered what AD is doing in his situation is insane

You feel more confident in LeBron turning it up based on things he did 2 years ago. Remember playoff mode last season? He's aging, doesn't have that extra gear he used to have. Now he has an extra gear that's just better than everyone not named Anthony Davis.

Tbf last year was weird because of the groin and waltons scheme

I do think he is transitioning into a different kind of player but personally ive still been more confident in the team when lebron turns up, like those quarters where brin takes over def feel better than the ones AD do although we gotta see if he can maintain that for a finals series

I will say that davis in an ideal situation might be better than lebron in an ideal situation. Davis has literally been doinf things that were hes weaknesses a year or two ago at this absurd level and its hilarious

Also ad is scoring 1.191 points possession in the half court rn. 2017 warriors were at 1.182 overall

Theyre using AD off ball less than ever too which makes it insane (hes scoring 1.44ppp on pick and rolls, 1.524 on cuts)

[E-Balla]

I still feel more confident in lebron taking over and that he has an extra gear he'll hit in the finals

I think AD's playoff run so far has been on a different level though, lebron been great as well but all things considered what AD is doing in his situation is insane

You feel more confident in LeBron turning it up based on things he did 2 years ago. Remember playoff mode last season? He's aging, doesn't have that extra gear he used to have. Now he has an extra gear that's just better than everyone not named Anthony Davis.

Tbf last year was weird because of the groin and waltons scheme

I do think he is transitioning into a different kind of player but personally ive still been more confident in the team when lebron turns up, like those quarters where brin takes over def feel better than the ones AD do although we gotta see if he can maintain that for a finals series

You're talking about a quarter? Sure maybe for a quarter LeBron can outplay AD... Hell for a single possession anyone can out play them both if you get lucky enough, just takes hitting a halfcourt shot.

I will say that davis in an ideal situation might be better than lebron in an ideal situation. Davis has literally been doinf things that were hes weaknesses a year or two ago at this absurd level and its hilarious

Also ad is scoring 1.191 points possession in the half court rn. 2017 warriors were at 1.182 overall

Theyre using AD off ball less than ever too which makes it insane (hes scoring 1.44ppp on pick and rolls, 1.524 on cuts)

He's just scary. Looking Dirk fused with David Robinson out there.

[freethedevil]

As far as the +/- lead AD has the +/- lead in the playoffs with a +24 on/off this postseason (Lebron has a +14). And they play a lot of minutes without the other one (each at around 10 mpg) and LeBron without AD has a +4.6 NetRTG while AD without LeBron has a +13.3 NetRTG.

I really still want to take LeBron but if this continues through the Finals I don't think I can take him knowing that his best level of play and AD's best level of play aren't even really that close.

Tbf lebrons best has definately been better than ADs best but he hasnt been hitting it as much, some of it because it takes him a bit longer to respond to adjustments sometimes but sometimes it just feels like he doesnt need to

LeBron's best prior to this season maybe. During this season LeBron hasn't played as well as AD is all year for any stretch and his best single game isn't better than AD's either.

there was one game vs houston where it felt like he was protecting the rim even more than ad.

[Heej]

I would say LeBron when he fully turns it up controls the pace on both ends of the floor better than anyone else right now. In terms of dominating the flow of the game LeBron is better than AD. But the one thing that AD has that no one else in the league truly has other than Steph imo is one of the absolute all time great motors we've ever seen in NBA history. Like this man's activity level is something that people with lesser motors will never ever ever ever be able to handle.

The dude is just relentless in the way he capitalizes on every opportunity in transition, cuts, putbacks, relocations, loose balls etc. He's like that dude on the court with crackhead energy that's so immense that it literally drains energy from the other team because they know they can't match the hustle, except he's an athletic Marvel with a freakish combination of gifts and skills on top of all that. I'm not sure what I prefer tbh cuz LeBron can dissect any scheme thrown at him but on the other hand there's really no scheme against hustle.