2021-22 NBA Season Discussion

[agentofatlas]

Luka's on/off numbers in this series have been pretty bad despite him scoring well offensively.

Luka On: -61 in 113 min
Luka Off: +18 in 31 min

Compared to Brunson...

Brunson On: -16 in 104 min
Brunson Off: -27 in 40 min

I feel like we're seeing that the Warriors have a weakness when it comes to defending quick guards like Morant & Brunson.

Brunson isn't a quick twitch guard though. He's a power guard that uses his strength to get to the paint.

[Outside]

The GS-Mavs series has been a revelation. The Mavs are a really good team that had just taken out the Suns, and early in this series, they showed why -- big ol' Luka surveying the floor and running the five-out offense to great effect, a bevy of shooters to accept kickouts, Brunson to run things when Luka sat, and willing and capable defenders. I knew game 1 was an anomaly and expected the series to go six.

But the Warriors have steadily worn them down and exposed the cracks, and in some cases, they've turned them into canyons. The rebounding has become a farce -- they've outrebounded the Mavs 141-98. I knew Luka wasn't a plus defender, but dear lord, the Warriors have exposed that he's awful, and not just in space like when Chris Paul picked on him in isolation, but in the post where the Warriors go around him like he's barely there, and as a help defender. There is no area of defense he is good at. Brunson is willing on defense, but he's short with alligator arms, and they're backing him down or rising up over him. Bullock, Finney-Smith, and Dinwiddie move their feet, but they're skinny and/or undersized guys, and the Dubs are pounding them into dust. Poor Reggie Bullock is going to need a month to heal after this.

I liked the Mavs attitude after game 1, when they were still confident despite getting trounced. But game 2 was their chance, they blew it, and they knew it. The Warriors found their next gear, and while a big comeback like that always requires the team in the lead to make mistakes, the Warriors basically just took it and there was nothing the Mavs could do to stop it. That loss really hurt, and the Warriors now had a psychological advantage. They knew they were better, they knew they could pound the Mavs on the boards, and they knew the defense couldn't stop them.

I'm still waiting for the usual Warriors letdown. The tough part for Dallas is that game 3 WAS something of a letdown, but it didn't matter.

Confidence is a nebulous but powerful thing. The Warriors have it, and the Mavs don't.

It's so obvious that the Mavs need a big, maybe two. Powell ain't it. Rudy would be awesome for them, but what would they have to give up to get him? Their wings need to hit the weight room. Luka needs to dedicate himself to getting in shape and being better at defense. They have a good group to build around. Kidd seems like a keeper. The front office needs to fill in the gaps.

[The-Power]

I'm just reading GB and I'm shocked what I read in "More athletic Tatum or Butler" thread. How can people say that Tatum is more athletic than Butler? One poster said that Butler is one of the least athletic stars in the league.

Am I missing something, or is GB that bad?

Like eminence, I don't think the comparison is ridiculous but I've seen Butler's athleticism being underrated on many occasions. Not sure why, though. Butler's athleticism, especially in his physical prime, was elite and continues to be excellent.

[Doctor MJ]

Luka's on/off numbers in this series have been pretty bad despite him scoring well offensively.

Luka On: -61 in 113 min
Luka Off: +18 in 31 min

Compared to Brunson...

Brunson On: -16 in 104 min
Brunson Off: -27 in 40 min

I feel like we're seeing that the Warriors have a weakness when it comes to defending quick guards like Morant & Brunson.

Brunson isn't a quick twitch guard though. He's a power guard that uses his strength to get to the paint.

Fair enough. I'd agree that Brunson doesn't have Morant's athleticism, but he's still much quicker than Luka and he knows how to use his smaller frame to slither under and around the defense. Possible though that isn't what's making the difference at all - maybe it's more of a Luka Oncic situation, maybe it's luck, maybe it's Brunson benefitting from Luka's gravity.

[GSP]

Luka's on/off numbers in this series have been pretty bad despite him scoring well offensively.

Luka On: -61 in 113 min
Luka Off: +18 in 31 min

Compared to Brunson...

Brunson On: -16 in 104 min
Brunson Off: -27 in 40 min

I feel like we're seeing that the Warriors have a weakness when it comes to defending quick guards like Morant & Brunson.

I think it's only a weakness if Gp2 is out TBH

[Doctor MJ]

Luka's on/off numbers in this series have been pretty bad despite him scoring well offensively.

Luka On: -61 in 113 min
Luka Off: +18 in 31 min

Compared to Brunson...

Brunson On: -16 in 104 min
Brunson Off: -27 in 40 min

I feel like we're seeing that the Warriors have a weakness when it comes to defending quick guards like Morant & Brunson.

I think it's only a weakness if Gp2 is out TBH

Ah, of course you're right.

[Texas Chuck]

There is no area of defense he is good at.

defensive rebounding. Though as I mentioned after game 2, he's not had a great series in that regard.

This absolutely has to be priority 1 for him and the Mavs. Even more than the FT shooting which remains inconsistent.

He's got to get in much better shape and he's got to make more commitment to defense. He may always be a liability, but he can't be as bad as he has looked against the Warriors, and in other sporadic moments in the playoffs.

And part of that is the offense can't be this Luka-centric. Even in better shape, that's too much to ask him to create virtually everything while having the necessary energy to defend. Because at times in this series his want-to has been there. But as you say, they are traffic coning him anyway.

as a Mavs fan, I like that this team learned they could compete and win in the playoffs against good teams. That's good for their confidence and trust in the coaches. And as painful as it is right now to be on the verge of a sweep, them seeing there is still a meaningful gap between them and a championship level team, will hopefully prevent Cuban and the FO from thinking we can just run this back, and Luka from thinking he's arrived.

[eminence]

I think I might prefer Dallas getting beat down vs a close series loss for their future growth. Keeps them from complacency.

Wonder what the rest of the conference is thinking they could do against each squad right now.

[Colbinii]

I think I might prefer Dallas getting beat down vs a close series loss for their future growth. Keeps them from complacency.

Wonder what the rest of the conference is thinking they could do against each squad right now.

In no Order

1) Phoenix

I imagine they feel like they can still come out of the west. They need to sure up the back-up point guard position and with Saric coming back he adds a layer to the team they desperately missed in the post-season.

2) Memphis

They just needed Ja to stay healthy. A young nucleus which will only improve [In theory]

3) Minnesota

Similar to Memphis in terms of a young core, figure out the DLo situation and develop the young players more and fix the mental mistakes in late game situations

4) Utah

They need different and better wings. Can they fix this because running it back doesn't make much sense. A Gobert/Mitchell pairing, in theory, can beat anyone.

5) Clippers

Kawhi Leonard

6) Lakers

Figure out if Westbrook can return better fitting pieces and if AD can stay healthy. Is LeBron able to turn back the clock to 2020 levels or are they going to fall short.

7) New Orleans

A healthy Zion leads this team to a scary, scary bunch

8) Denver

Get healthy and sure up the wing rotation

I'm not going to comment on Portland, San Antonio, Sacramento, Houston and Oklahoma City as I see all of them below the above teams.

[70sFan]

I'll agree on Jimmy of a few years ago.

But as of now, I wouldn't say Jimmy consistently jumps any higher or regularly demonstrates more strength. He is still quicker to my eye.

Length is kinda sorta part of athleticism for me. If two players demonstrate similar athleticism and one is notably larger than the other, usually the athletic edge will be given to the larger player.

Like eminence, I don't think the comparison is ridiculous but I've seen Butler's athleticism being underrated on many occasions. Not sure why, though. Butler's athleticism, especially in his physical prime, was elite and continues to be excellent.

I'd say Butler is still significantly stronger than Tatum and he's quicker as well. I don't think Tatum has any advantage that would shorten these gaps.

I also don't understand why Butler's athleticism gets overlooked throughout his career. To me it was always obvious that he's top tier athlete.

[70sFan]

Is this the first time when you can argue that Klay is the worst player of the Warriors starting 5? He is still valuable of course, because he knows Kerr system better than anyone not named Curry/Green, but he's been very underwhelming in the postseason so far. I'd take Wiggins over him easily right now and Poole also has a case, even with poor defense taking into account. Hell, even Looney has been more solid after the first round.

[parsnips33]

I'm finally starting to see the vision of Kerr not "chasing wins" last season. Kerr could have easily simplified the offense to better mesh with his personnel last season (Oubre, Wiseman) and likely got far better results. But keeping true to the system, giving Wiggins and Poole valuable time to better learn the ins and outs, puts them in a position to be far more cohesive and dangerous this year.

Still a ballsy move essentially writing off an all timer season from one of the best to ever do it, but I can at least see the logic behind it now

[Gooner]

Is this the first time when you can argue that Klay is the worst player of the Warriors starting 5? He is still valuable of course, because he knows Kerr system better than anyone not named Curry/Green, but he's been very underwhelming in the postseason so far. I'd take Wiggins over him easily right now and Poole also has a case, even with poor defense taking into account. Hell, even Looney has been more solid after the first round.

No way, Klay's gravity and movement off the ball is essential for the Warriors. Even if he doesn't explode offensively, he makes the game so much easier for everybody else. He is always a threat offensively. Arguing that Looney is better than him is silly. Warriors didn't make the playoffs last year when Klay was out.

[70sFan]

Is this the first time when you can argue that Klay is the worst player of the Warriors starting 5? He is still valuable of course, because he knows Kerr system better than anyone not named Curry/Green, but he's been very underwhelming in the postseason so far. I'd take Wiggins over him easily right now and Poole also has a case, even with poor defense taking into account. Hell, even Looney has been more solid after the first round.

No way, Klay's gravity and movement off the ball is essential for the Warriors. Even if he doesn't explode offensively, he makes the game so much easier for everybody else. He is always a threat offensively. Arguing that Looney is better than him is silly. Warriors didn't make the playoffs last year when Klay was out.

Warriors didn't make playoffs last year because they had a worse team, not because of Klay absence. Are you aware that Klay only played 32 games in the RS and Warriors went only 17-15 in those games (vs 36-14 without him)?

I'm not saying that he sucks or that he isn't important piece of that team, but he's not all-star anymore and I'm wondering how much value he has beyond off-ball movement (which could be replaced by other, cheaper players).

[parsnips33]

Is this the first time when you can argue that Klay is the worst player of the Warriors starting 5? He is still valuable of course, because he knows Kerr system better than anyone not named Curry/Green, but he's been very underwhelming in the postseason so far. I'd take Wiggins over him easily right now and Poole also has a case, even with poor defense taking into account. Hell, even Looney has been more solid after the first round.

I'm definitely curious to see what he looks like with a (knock on wood) fully healthy offseason. He doesn't have the quickness to check any and all guards right now, but his defense has come along way even from the regular season. Offense has been streaky, but when he's on he still looks like Klay, with maybe a little more in his bag in terms of post game

[Gooner]

Is this the first time when you can argue that Klay is the worst player of the Warriors starting 5? He is still valuable of course, because he knows Kerr system better than anyone not named Curry/Green, but he's been very underwhelming in the postseason so far. I'd take Wiggins over him easily right now and Poole also has a case, even with poor defense taking into account. Hell, even Looney has been more solid after the first round.

No way, Klay's gravity and movement off the ball is essential for the Warriors. Even if he doesn't explode offensively, he makes the game so much easier for everybody else. He is always a threat offensively. Arguing that Looney is better than him is silly. Warriors didn't make the playoffs last year when Klay was out.

Warriors didn't make playoffs last year because they had a worse team, not because of Klay absence. Are you aware that Klay only played 32 games in the RS and Warriors went only 17-15 in those games (vs 36-14 without him)?

I'm not saying that he sucks or that he isn't important piece of that team, but he's not all-star anymore and I'm wondering how much value he has beyond off-ball movement (which could be replaced by other, cheaper players).

Klay was in the process of coming back this season and he struggled early, but now he is settled and he looks pretty good in the playoffs. He had some bad shooting nights but overall his numbers are solid. He delivered big performance against Memphis in game 6. Warriors had Steph, Draymond, Looney and Wiggins last year, all players that you consider better than Klay. Which player could replace Klay's skillset? That kind of shooting accuracy and team basketball IQ is matched only by Steph Curry.

[Outside]

Is this the first time when you can argue that Klay is the worst player of the Warriors starting 5? He is still valuable of course, because he knows Kerr system better than anyone not named Curry/Green, but he's been very underwhelming in the postseason so far. I'd take Wiggins over him easily right now and Poole also has a case, even with poor defense taking into account. Hell, even Looney has been more solid after the first round.

There's certainly a case to be made for that. It's quite glaring when Klay's shot is so inconsistent and he is habitually overconfident and takes tough shots when better ones are available. But for the Warriors to reach the level of play that it will take to win a title, they need Klay to space the floor and hit key shots, which he does. There's also the subtle benefits of chemistry that he has with the rest of the core.

Telling him to stop shooting when he's off is counterproductive to that goal. To be good Klay, he needs the mindset that he can make anything, which means you have to put up with stretches of bad shot selection Klay.

[Gooner]

Is this the first time when you can argue that Klay is the worst player of the Warriors starting 5? He is still valuable of course, because he knows Kerr system better than anyone not named Curry/Green, but he's been very underwhelming in the postseason so far. I'd take Wiggins over him easily right now and Poole also has a case, even with poor defense taking into account. Hell, even Looney has been more solid after the first round.

There's certainly a case to be made for that. It's quite glaring when Klay's shot is so inconsistent and he is habitually overconfident and takes tough shots when better ones are available. But for the Warriors to reach the level of play that it will take to win a title, they need Klay to space the floor and hit key shots, which he does. There's also the subtle benefits of chemistry that he has with the rest of the core.

Telling him to stop shooting when he's off is counterproductive to that goal. To be good Klay, he needs the mindset that he can make anything, which means you have to put up with stretches of bad shot selection Klay.

Shooters shoot, it's as simple as that.

[GSP]

Is this the first time when you can argue that Klay is the worst player of the Warriors starting 5? He is still valuable of course, because he knows Kerr system better than anyone not named Curry/Green, but he's been very underwhelming in the postseason so far. I'd take Wiggins over him easily right now and Poole also has a case, even with poor defense taking into account. Hell, even Looney has been more solid after the first round.

He was lowkey bad in the 17 playoffs but no one remembers since they steamrolled everyone. Zaza was technically a "starter" but we all know Iggy was one of their 5 and Klay was worse than Kd, Steph, Dray and Iggy those playoffs IMO

[parsnips33]

Would be very funny for Steph to get WCF MVP given his history

Even funnier if we win it all and Wiggins gets FMVP