2021-22 NBA Season Discussion

[Outside]

Wound up watching a movie instead, but looks like a pretty decent game. Any standout thoughts?

Wish I had watched a movie instead

Suns played really disciplined defense. Steph missed some stuff he usually hits, but Bridges generally played really well on him.

The Dubs, and especially Curry and Draymond, laid an egg.

I went into the season expecting the Warriors to wind up third or fourth in the conference behind Phoenix, Utah, and Denver or whoever else would have a good season, and that the Warriors would be well positioned for a solid playoff run. But the Warriors stellar play and excellent record to start the season tugged hard on the irrational expectations closet in Warriors fans' brains, to the point that we entertained the notion that they were actually that good. The Brooklyn game was a huge sugar high.

The Phoenix game was a dose of reality. It was only November, so in the end it won't matter much, but it doesn't make much sense to think that Phoenix won't have a better record when it's all said and done. The Warriors will have a down stretch at some point, and they may eventually fall to third or fourth, but they could conceivably come in second. Playing .900 ball clearly isn't sustainable.

As for the game itself, Phoenix played well defensively, but it was striking how poorly the vast majority of Warriors played. Curry had his worst shooting night ever; credit goes to the Phoenix defense, but it wasn't anything Curry hadn't seen before or countered successfully in the past. (Side note: the TNT guys were all idiots, acting like making Curry work at the defensive end is some great new strategy that no one else does and was a major factor in him shooting like crap.) Draymond was as bad as I've seen him. The defense against Ayton was terrible (though my guess is that Kerr and Brown have a far better defensive strategy that they don't want to give the Suns a preview of), and they didn't put Ayton in PnR to punish him at the other end like they did with Blake Griffin and LaMarcus Aldridge. Wiggins was dealing with back spasms and he looked like it. Jordan Poole was good in spurts. Bielica was meh. Juan Toscano-Anderson, who is usually a reliable energy and do the little things guy off the bench, was horrific. Otto Porter and Gary Payton II were the only Warriors to have good games. Despite all that, the Warriors were right with the Suns until the end, though the Suns obviously missed Booker.

The good news for the Warriors is that they have a chance to redeem themselves on Friday. We'll see what they do with the opportunity.

[parsnips33]

Wound up watching a movie instead, but looks like a pretty decent game. Any standout thoughts?

Wish I had watched a movie instead

Suns played really disciplined defense. Steph missed some stuff he usually hits, but Bridges generally played really well on him.

The Dubs, and especially Curry and Draymond, laid an egg.

I went into the season expecting the Warriors to wind up third or fourth in the conference behind Phoenix, Utah, and Denver or whoever else would have a good season, and that the Warriors would be well positioned for a solid playoff run. But the Warriors stellar play and excellent record to start the season tugged hard on the irrational expectations closet in Warriors fans' brains, to the point that we entertained the notion that they were actually that good. The Brooklyn game was a huge sugar high.

The Phoenix game was a dose of reality. It was only November, so in the end it won't matter much, but it doesn't make much sense to think that Phoenix won't have a better record when it's all said and done. The Warriors will have a down stretch at some point, and they may eventually fall to third or fourth, but they could conceivably come in second. Playing .900 ball clearly isn't sustainable.

As for the game itself, Phoenix played well defensively, but it was striking how poorly the vast majority of Warriors played. Curry had his worst shooting night ever; credit goes to the Phoenix defense, but it wasn't anything Curry hadn't seen before or countered successfully in the past. (Side note: the TNT guys were all idiots, acting like making Curry work at the defensive end is some great new strategy that no one else does and was a major factor in him shooting like crap.) Draymond was as bad as I've seen him. The defense against Ayton was terrible (though my guess is that Kerr and Brown have a far better defensive strategy that they don't want to give the Suns a preview of), and they didn't put Ayton in PnR to punish him at the other end like they did with Blake Griffin and LaMarcus Aldridge. Wiggins was dealing with back spasms and he looked like it. Jordan Poole was good in spurts. Bielica was meh. Juan Toscano-Anderson, who is usually a reliable energy and do the little things guy off the bench, was horrific. Otto Porter and Gary Payton II were the only Warriors to have good games. Despite all that, the Warriors were right with the Suns until the end, though the Suns obviously missed Booker.

The good news for the Warriors is that they have a chance to redeem themselves on Friday. We'll see what they do with the opportunity.

I'm still of the belief we can be the best team in the league. Last night was bad, but we hung around for a long time even with Steph playing like Jarret Jack. Suns definitely looked like a championship quality team, and they'll be out for revenge this year after letting it slip away last year

[yoyoboy]

Very glad we didn’t pay a premium to offload Love.

He’s been absolutely killing it this season as a super sub off the bench. 20 points/13 rebounds/3.5 assists per 36 while shooting on 57% TS (and his 3 ball has only recently started falling so maybe this climbs even higher). He’s also been surprisingly active defensively, especially last night. He’s posting a 98.5 on-court DRTG this season.

It would’ve sucked to give up a lottery pick to get off his contract in order to create cap space we wouldn’t have been able to use on any prominent free agents anyways, only for Love to suddenly look like Kevin Love again on another team that’s playing winning ball. His attitude and energy are so much better this season, and he honestly looks happier than I’ve seen him any season on the Cavs, including the LeBron years.

[Clyde Frazier]

Read on Twitter

Ok i see a little baby jokic here

[Colbinii]

Read on Twitter

Ok i see a little baby jokic here

I have been internally gleeful with having him as a top 5 prospect from the past draft (And Mobley #1).

I hope Houston is able to see his potential as Denver did with Jokic and build around him.

[parsnips33]

Very glad we didn’t pay a premium to offload Love.

He’s been absolutely killing it this season as a super sub off the bench. 20 points/13 rebounds/3.5 assists per 36 while shooting on 57% TS (and his 3 ball has only recently started falling so maybe this climbs even higher). He’s also been surprisingly active defensively, especially last night. He’s posting a 98.5 on-court DRTG this season.

It would’ve sucked to give up a lottery pick to get off his contract in order to create cap space we wouldn’t have been able to use on any prominent free agents anyways, only for Love to suddenly look like Kevin Love again on another team that’s playing winning ball. His attitude and energy are so much better this season, and he honestly looks happier than I’ve seen him any season on the Cavs, including the LeBron years.

I got HARASSED on the Warriors board for saying we should try to get him if he got bought out. It's not like these guys just forget how to play basketball all of a sudden, context is key

[SeniorWalker]

Jokic needs to leave Denver.

The more I watch him play, I feel his talent level is too high to flounder on a franchise like Denver. I want to see him tested on a roster that has a real chance to contend for a title and I just don't know if Denver can put together a team for him in time to match his prime.

He does everything right and his timing on every move is just uncanny, as it usually has to be for more unathletic players (Paul Pierce comes to mind here as an example of a guy who was excellent without elite athleticism). The guy just breathes efficient, free flowing offense, maybe the best example of an unselfish heliocentric offense I've ever seen because he doesn't just hold onto the ball. I'm just blown away at his level of skill. The real Larry bird successor imo, not the lazy Luka comparisons.

[yoyoboy]

Well tonight's OKC-Memphis game is going to have some serious impact on Morant's and SGA's +/- numbers, with both not playing in a 73 point blowout.

[falcolombardi]

not a good Night to be an okc fan lol

also the grizzlies are gonna jump like 3 points in srs of this win alone lmao

[falcolombardi]

Jokic needs to leave Denver.

The more I watch him play, I feel his talent level is too high to flounder on a franchise like Denver. I want to see him tested on a roster that has a real chance to contend for a title and I just don't know if Denver can put together a team for him in time to match his prime.

He does everything right and his timing on every move is just uncanny, as it usually has to be for more unathletic players (Paul Pierce comes to mind here as an example of a guy who was excellent without elite athleticism). The guy just breathes efficient, free flowing offense, maybe the best example of an unselfish heliocentric offense I've ever seen because he doesn't just hold onto the ball. I'm just blown away at his level of skill. The real Larry bird successor imo, not the lazy Luka comparisons.

denver had somethingh really nice going on before injuries , who knows if mpj and Murray will be the same again

[Dr Positivity]

I don't see Warriors winning the title, I'm skeptical the talent of their role players will be as useful in playoffs as in regular season and they don't have backup options like passing it to a big guy like Ayton. ACL recovery players never look good the first half a season. If things go well after this year in terms of development this could be their 2012 Spurs season maybe.

LMAO at Grizzlies Thunder.

[falcolombardi]

I don't see Warriors winning the title, I'm skeptical the talent of their role players will be as useful in playoffs as in regular season. ACL recovery players never look good the first half a season. If things go well after this year this could be their 2012 Spurs season maybe.

LMAO at Grizzlies Thunder.

that season ended in defeat against a up and coming younger team , are you thinking 2014?

[Dr Positivity]

I don't see Warriors winning the title, I'm skeptical the talent of their role players will be as useful in playoffs as in regular season. ACL recovery players never look good the first half a season. If things go well after this year this could be their 2012 Spurs season maybe.

LMAO at Grizzlies Thunder.

that season ended in defeat against a up and coming younger team , are you thinking 2014?

2012 because they revitalized window with older Duncan/Parker/Manu combined by younger players like Kawhi/Green/Mills/etc. leading to lethal results in regular season and playoffs until CF, except the younger players probably weren't ready yet to win the title, with 2013 and 2014 being better years for that reason with improved Kawhi. Not a perfect comp but if Poole/Kuminga/Moody/Wiseman develop well and their early primes catch Curry/Klay/Draymond late primes at a high enough level it could lead to them peaking in the next few years after this for same reason.

[SeniorWalker]

I don't see Warriors winning the title, I'm skeptical the talent of their role players will be as useful in playoffs as in regular season and they don't have backup options like passing it to a big guy like Ayton. ACL recovery players never look good the first half a season. If things go well after this year in terms of development this could be their 2012 Spurs season maybe.

LMAO at Grizzlies Thunder.

I don't want to count them out but I kind of agree. I do see the warriors getting to at least the second round though. It will be interesting to see how they adjust to the Suns on Friday for future prospects.

If the Clippers get fully healthy they could win the west, but see that as unlikely given Kawhi's return timetable.

Suns seem in a good spot to repeat the conference. Bucks as well in the east. If the health trends continue, I'd bet on the Bucks for sure getting back to the finals, with only Miami really giving them problems.

[Doctor MJ]

Jokic needs to leave Denver.

The more I watch him play, I feel his talent level is too high to flounder on a franchise like Denver. I want to see him tested on a roster that has a real chance to contend for a title and I just don't know if Denver can put together a team for him in time to match his prime.

He does everything right and his timing on every move is just uncanny, as it usually has to be for more unathletic players (Paul Pierce comes to mind here as an example of a guy who was excellent without elite athleticism). The guy just breathes efficient, free flowing offense, maybe the best example of an unselfish heliocentric offense I've ever seen because he doesn't just hold onto the ball. I'm just blown away at his level of skill. The real Larry bird successor imo, not the lazy Luka comparisons.

So, this feels really unfair to the Nugget franchise to me.

I do get the sentiment. Jokic deserves a better team around him than he’s currently playing with certainly, but that’s because Murray and Porter are hurt. Literally it was last year when these guys were healthy that Denver looked like the best team in the league.

Maybe the injuries will mean it’s all f’ed now, but it’s not because the Nuggets are a bad franchise.

I’ll also say: It’s not trivial to make a fit around Jokic. Guards in the NBA are largely trained from birth to do things that are irrelevant next to Jokic, and it’s crucial to get the right power forward next to him - which Aaron Gordon basically is.


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[Colbinii]

I don't see Warriors winning the title, I'm skeptical the talent of their role players will be as useful in playoffs as in regular season and they don't have backup options like passing it to a big guy like Ayton. ACL recovery players never look good the first half a season. If things go well after this year in terms of development this could be their 2012 Spurs season maybe.

LMAO at Grizzlies Thunder.

I can see the Warriors winning the title but it is going to be an uphill battle.

Milwaukee and the Suns are currently the best two teams both on paper and how they play [when healthy]. The trio of Giannis/Holiday/Middleton and CP3/Booker/Ayton are simply better than Curry/Green/Wiggins and hoping Thompson is better than Wiggins is not a likely possibility.

The Bucks and Suns also have the two best post-season performers when compared to Curry--that is Chris Paul and Giannis. An Injury to Paul is never out of question to hinder his team but as it stands, the Warriors to me are in a tier 2 with Utah and the Brooklyn, behind Phoenix and Milwaukee.

[parsnips33]

I don't think Warriors are overwhelming favorites (or even necessarily favorites) to win the ring, but I don't think Phoenix is in another tier from Golden State. Milwaukee is still the team to beat for me. I definitely don't agree that CP3 is appreciably better in the post-season than Steph. At the end of the day, Warriors have a real shot at having the best offensive and defensive player in any playoff matchup.

Still would like for them to make a trade to solidify their standing, but they are not pretenders

[Doctor MJ]

I don't see Warriors winning the title, I'm skeptical the talent of their role players will be as useful in playoffs as in regular season and they don't have backup options like passing it to a big guy like Ayton. ACL recovery players never look good the first half a season. If things go well after this year in terms of development this could be their 2012 Spurs season maybe.

LMAO at Grizzlies Thunder.

I can see the Warriors winning the title but it is going to be an uphill battle.

Milwaukee and the Suns are currently the best two teams both on paper and how they play [when healthy]. The trio of Giannis/Holiday/Middleton and CP3/Booker/Ayton are simply better than Curry/Green/Wiggins and hoping Thompson is better than Wiggins is not a likely possibility.

The Bucks and Suns also have the two best post-season performers when compared to Curry--that is Chris Paul and Giannis. An Injury to Paul is never out of question to hinder his team but as it stands, the Warriors to me are in a tier 2 with Utah and the Brooklyn, behind Phoenix and Milwaukee.

I'm curious what you'd point to to say that Paul & Giannis are better post-season performers than Curry.

I'll say flat out that I think any notion that Giannis was a better playoff performer than Curry before the Phoenix series last year just seem 180 degrees wrong. The idea that Curry disappointed like Giannis had disappointed prior to that point to me is grossly exaggerating any disappointment attached to Curry and being far too kind to Giannis.

For Paul, I'm more just wondering what you're seeing. I wouldn't have given Paul the nod there, but frankly I've been arguing for a good while that people are too critical when they call Paul a post-season disappointment.

[Doctor MJ]

I don't think Warriors are overwhelming favorites (or even necessarily favorites) to win the ring, but I don't think Phoenix is in another tier from Golden State. Milwaukee is still the team to beat for me. I definitely don't agree that CP3 is appreciably better in the post-season than Steph. At the end of the day, Warriors have a real shot at having the best offensive and defensive player in any playoff matchup.

Still would like for them to make a trade to solidify their standing, but they are not pretenders

So, I think with all this stuff it's about the match-ups and the "final form" that emerges in a series between the teams.

I don't think anyone should be looking at Phoenix right now, as much as they clearly deserve #1 in any power rankings, and thinking that they've solved the matchup issues that in the end made the Bucks really just destroy them by the end. I'm not saying they can't solve them, but until we see them have a way to stop Giannis, I think you have to pick the Bucks over the Suns in a series where they are both healthy.

Similarly, while it was only one game, until we see Curry & co handle than Phoenix defense I think you have to favor Phoenix in the playoffs. (Though someone mentioned that it's unlikely that Klay will be better than Wiggins, and I think that not at all true. If Klay can play offense roughly like he did in the past, that alone makes him a considerably better player than Wiggins.)

Meanwhile, I don't think it's obvious that Milwaukee should be considered to have the match up edge over the Warriors.

Beyond these teams - I think the big question is whether there's a team that can return to full strength and have the right match up advantage over the teams they play.

[parsnips33]

I don't think Warriors are overwhelming favorites (or even necessarily favorites) to win the ring, but I don't think Phoenix is in another tier from Golden State. Milwaukee is still the team to beat for me. I definitely don't agree that CP3 is appreciably better in the post-season than Steph. At the end of the day, Warriors have a real shot at having the best offensive and defensive player in any playoff matchup.

Still would like for them to make a trade to solidify their standing, but they are not pretenders

So, I think with all this stuff it's about the match-ups and the "final form" that emerges in a series between the teams.

I don't think anyone should be looking at Phoenix right now, as much as they clearly deserve #1 in any power rankings, and thinking that they've solved the matchup issues that in the end made the Bucks really just destroy them by the end. I'm not saying they can't solve them, but until we see them have a way to stop Giannis, I think you have to pick the Bucks over the Suns in a series where they are both healthy.

Similarly, while it was only one game, until we see Curry & co handle than Phoenix defense I think you have to favor Phoenix in the playoffs. (Though someone mentioned that it's unlikely that Klay will be better than Wiggins, and I think that not at all true. If Klay can play offense roughly like he did in the past, that alone makes him a considerably better player than Wiggins.)

Meanwhile, I don't think it's obvious that Milwaukee should be considered to have the match up edge over the Warriors.

Beyond these teams - I think the big question is whether there's a team that can return to full strength and have the right match up advantage over the teams they play.

Phoenix threw the first punch and it was hard. I do think Warriors will have counters, especially in a playoff environment, as this isn't the first time Kerr and co have seen that type of defense, but I'm sure the Suns have some counters for those counters. They are very well coached.

I have no idea what Klay will look like, so I won't speculate. I do know this team needs a bit more offense outside of Steph as Wiggins and Poole are both too inconsistent for my liking. If Klay can come back and fill that role, great. If not, at least we have pieces to make a trade