The LeBron James All-NBA (2nd) and Luka Doncic - 24-25 Thread

[dcstanley]

Reaves, Knecht, Rui, LeBron, Davis -- Reddish, Christie, Hayes/Koloko

This current squad are collectively scoring at 60% TS since November, with them alone the Lakers are a top 5 offense.
But Lakers are losing games because they can't defend or rebound and they need to play DLo/Gabe for their playmaking but these guys are killing them on TS%.

Simply changing DLo/Gabe in to a playmaker, defender, rebounder that has decent TS% with low usage would take a Lakers weakness and make it a strength. This is why Simmons addition makes so much sense and so to does the Ball+Vuc or Ball+Smith addition.

Replacing DLO, a player with the reputation/gravity of a plus shooter, with Simmons is going to hurt the offense as much or more than it helps the defense. He's about as bad of a fit as you can get in the half court with Lebron/AD and savvy teams are going to exploit that in a playoff setting.

This team is already full of one way players on either side of the ball. The last thing they need is to add another similarly flawed player that is good (not elite) on one end and below average on the other. I know Simmons seems like he can add value offensively but that's in a very specific context that doesn't always translate in the playoffs or on a team with two non-shooting stars. And above all else, he isn't close to who he was three years ago. I think trading DLO and Rui for Simmons flat out makes this team worse.

You guys really want another guy that stands in the dunker spot when Bron/AD try to go to work? Reminds me of the Westbrook experience all over again.

Simmons would play like Vando did but providing much more playmaking and handling. We've seen Simmons, he plays nothing liek Westbrook. Westbrook is inefficient but still chucks and has poor focus on defense, Simmons does not chuck and he defends hard. Simmons is like a super Vando.

Instead of DLo, Reaves, Vando, LeBron, Davis like in 2023 playoffs, this would be Simmons, Reaves, Knecht, LeBron, Davis.
Shooting isn't worse overall but the defense is better.

And Vando was played off the floor in the playoffs. He's arguably a better defender than Simmons, too.

Simmons and Westbrook aren't similar in terms of style of play but the same issues persist when Lebron/AD have the ball. Defenses will ignore Simmons and clog the lane. There's only so many off-ball screening actions and other bells and whistles for JJ to employ to make it fit in the half-court. At the end of the day, a non-shooting center and Simmons is going to be exploited in the half-court by any half decent team.

No good team in the NBA has multiple non-shooters in their starting lineup.

[zimpy27]

Replacing DLO, a player with the reputation/gravity of a plus shooter, with Simmons is going to hurt the offense as much or more than it helps the defense. He's about as bad of a fit as you can get in the half court with Lebron/AD and savvy teams are going to exploit that in a playoff setting.

This team is already full of one way players on either side of the ball. The last thing they need is to add another similarly flawed player that is good (not elite) on one end and below average on the other. I know Simmons seems like he can add value offensively but that's in a very specific context that doesn't always translate in the playoffs or on a team with two non-shooting stars. And above all else, he isn't close to who he was three years ago. I think trading DLO and Rui for Simmons flat out makes this team worse.

You guys really want another guy that stands in the dunker spot when Bron/AD try to go to work? Reminds me of the Westbrook experience all over again.

Simmons would play like Vando did but providing much more playmaking and handling. We've seen Simmons, he plays nothing liek Westbrook. Westbrook is inefficient but still chucks and has poor focus on defense, Simmons does not chuck and he defends hard. Simmons is like a super Vando.

Instead of DLo, Reaves, Vando, LeBron, Davis like in 2023 playoffs, this would be Simmons, Reaves, Knecht, LeBron, Davis.
Shooting isn't worse overall but the defense is better.

And Vando was played off the floor in the playoffs. He's arguably a better defender than Simmons, too.

Simmons and Westbrook aren't similar in terms of style of play but the same issues persist when Lebron/AD have the ball. Defenses will ignore Simmons and clog the lane. There's only so many off-ball screening actions and other bells and whistles for JJ to employ to make it fit in the half-court. At the end of the day, a non-shooting center and Simmons is going to be exploited in the half-court by any half decent team.

No good team in the NBA has multiple non-shooters in their starting lineup.

Vando wasn't played off the floor, Vando injured his knee in game 2 of GSW series in 2023. Simmons is a much better offensive player on account of his creation.


What about this scenario..

Lakers trade Vincent+2xSRPs to Wizards TPE.
Lakers are now $2m under 1st apron.
Simmons gets a buyout and joins Lakers.


Would you accept Simmons then?

[SK21209]

Replacing DLO, a player with the reputation/gravity of a plus shooter, with Simmons is going to hurt the offense as much or more than it helps the defense. He's about as bad of a fit as you can get in the half court with Lebron/AD and savvy teams are going to exploit that in a playoff setting.

This team is already full of one way players on either side of the ball. The last thing they need is to add another similarly flawed player that is good (not elite) on one end and below average on the other. I know Simmons seems like he can add value offensively but that's in a very specific context that doesn't always translate in the playoffs or on a team with two non-shooting stars. And above all else, he isn't close to who he was three years ago. I think trading DLO and Rui for Simmons flat out makes this team worse.

You guys really want another guy that stands in the dunker spot when Bron/AD try to go to work? Reminds me of the Westbrook experience all over again.

Simmons would play like Vando did but providing much more playmaking and handling. We've seen Simmons, he plays nothing liek Westbrook. Westbrook is inefficient but still chucks and has poor focus on defense, Simmons does not chuck and he defends hard. Simmons is like a super Vando.

Instead of DLo, Reaves, Vando, LeBron, Davis like in 2023 playoffs, this would be Simmons, Reaves, Knecht, LeBron, Davis.
Shooting isn't worse overall but the defense is better.

And Vando was played off the floor in the playoffs. He's arguably a better defender than Simmons, too.

Simmons and Westbrook aren't similar in terms of style of play but the same issues persist when Lebron/AD have the ball. Defenses will ignore Simmons and clog the lane. There's only so many off-ball screening actions and other bells and whistles for JJ to employ to make it fit in the half-court. At the end of the day, a non-shooting center and Simmons is going to be exploited in the half-court by any half decent team.

No good team in the NBA has multiple non-shooters in their starting lineup.

100% agreed, hard no on Simmons. I think there's a bigger problem even than the roster being full of one-way players, Timpf was talking about it the other day. Teams tend to take on the personality and follow the lead of their stars. LeBron has been picking his spots and trying to conserve energy in the regular season since like 2016. AD isn't a super high motor player; sometimes when he's feeling motivated he'll go out there and drop 40 and 15, but other times he's passive and lets guys like Sabonis or Bam push him around. He's not out to prove he's one of the best players in the league every single night. In 2020 we surrounded those two with a bunch of physical two-way guys that played with maximum effort every night. Caruso, Bradley, Green, KCP, McGee, Dwight, even Kuz. They all bought into Vogel and more often than not their night-to-night energy and effort overrode the LeBron and AD's lackadaisical inclinations.

That's not the case anymore. In 2023 we had Dennis and Vando doing that, but Dennis is gone (would love to get him back) and Vando has been hurt for like a year and a half now. AR plays with effort every night but DLo and Rui that don't play with much force (which is really frustrating with Rui, considering how physically gifted he is). Vincent tries out there but has been a near zero offensively although he may be trending up a bit. Max is also trending up after a really disappointing start to the season. Reddish has these bursts of energy for a few games when he gets back into the rotation, but then settles back into the player he's been the rest of his career. Dalton energizes the team when he hits threes but doesn't have a consistent night-to-night presence outside of making shots. You watch teams like the Magic or the Rockets, those guys are bought in and competing every single night regardless of who might be out with injury. We're a bunch of frontrunners. When our threes are falling, LeBron and AD are flexing to the crowd and the organ is playing at Crypto, we're a good team. But this team isn't attacking the regular season and trying to build good habits. They just pack it in when things aren't going well.

[nzahir]

Thoughts on Jimmy Butler?

Fit doesnt seem ideal, but neither are most of the options available

Anyone have data on his defense. His EPM is slightly positive still for defensive, but not sure hes the same defender anymore

[Ian Scuffling]

Simmons would play like Vando did but providing much more playmaking and handling. We've seen Simmons, he plays nothing liek Westbrook. Westbrook is inefficient but still chucks and has poor focus on defense, Simmons does not chuck and he defends hard. Simmons is like a super Vando.

Instead of DLo, Reaves, Vando, LeBron, Davis like in 2023 playoffs, this would be Simmons, Reaves, Knecht, LeBron, Davis.
Shooting isn't worse overall but the defense is better.

And Vando was played off the floor in the playoffs. He's arguably a better defender than Simmons, too.

Simmons and Westbrook aren't similar in terms of style of play but the same issues persist when Lebron/AD have the ball. Defenses will ignore Simmons and clog the lane. There's only so many off-ball screening actions and other bells and whistles for JJ to employ to make it fit in the half-court. At the end of the day, a non-shooting center and Simmons is going to be exploited in the half-court by any half decent team.

No good team in the NBA has multiple non-shooters in their starting lineup.

100% agreed, hard no on Simmons. I think there's a bigger problem even than the roster being full of one-way players, Timpf was talking about it the other day. Teams tend to take on the personality and follow the lead of their stars. LeBron has been picking his spots and trying to conserve energy in the regular season since like 2016. AD isn't a super high motor player; sometimes when he's feeling motivated he'll go out there and drop 40 and 15, but other times he's passive and lets guys like Sabonis or Bam push him around. He's not out to prove he's one of the best players in the league every single night. In 2020 we surrounded those two with a bunch of physical two-way guys that played with maximum effort every night. Caruso, Bradley, Green, KCP, McGee, Dwight, even Kuz. They all bought into Vogel and more often than not their night-to-night energy and effort overrode the LeBron and AD's lackadaisical inclinations.

That's not the case anymore. In 2023 we had Dennis and Vando doing that, but Dennis is gone (would love to get him back) and Vando has been hurt for like a year and a half now. AR plays with effort every night but DLo and Rui that don't play with much force (which is really frustrating with Rui, considering how physically gifted he is). Vincent tries out there but has been a near zero offensively although he may be trending up a bit. Max is also trending up after a really disappointing start to the season. Reddish has these bursts of energy for a few games when he gets back into the rotation, but then settles back into the player he's been the rest of his career. Dalton energizes the team when he hits threes but doesn't have a consistent night-to-night presence outside of making shots. You watch teams like the Magic or the Rockets, those guys are bought in and competing every single night regardless of who might be out with injury. We're a bunch of frontrunners. When our threes are falling, LeBron and AD are flexing to the crowd and the organ is playing at Crypto, we're a good team. But this team isn't attacking the regular season and trying to build good habits. They just pack it in when things aren't going well.

Good insight. Definitely has a ring of truth to it, especially in regards to AD and Lebron. My only quibble is 2016 seems a little early for the energy conserving Lebron. I think it was a few years later, that started. What has always bothered me is is this notion that role players take on the tenor of the leaders. Not that I don't believe it, but that these "professionals" actually do it. It doesn't matter how another player is playing, real or imagined, play hard, dammit. You're paid obscene amounts of money to play a game. Those guys in the championship season did just that, too.

[Fadeaway_J]

And Vando was played off the floor in the playoffs. He's arguably a better defender than Simmons, too.

Simmons and Westbrook aren't similar in terms of style of play but the same issues persist when Lebron/AD have the ball. Defenses will ignore Simmons and clog the lane. There's only so many off-ball screening actions and other bells and whistles for JJ to employ to make it fit in the half-court. At the end of the day, a non-shooting center and Simmons is going to be exploited in the half-court by any half decent team.

No good team in the NBA has multiple non-shooters in their starting lineup.

100% agreed, hard no on Simmons. I think there's a bigger problem even than the roster being full of one-way players, Timpf was talking about it the other day. Teams tend to take on the personality and follow the lead of their stars. LeBron has been picking his spots and trying to conserve energy in the regular season since like 2016. AD isn't a super high motor player; sometimes when he's feeling motivated he'll go out there and drop 40 and 15, but other times he's passive and lets guys like Sabonis or Bam push him around. He's not out to prove he's one of the best players in the league every single night. In 2020 we surrounded those two with a bunch of physical two-way guys that played with maximum effort every night. Caruso, Bradley, Green, KCP, McGee, Dwight, even Kuz. They all bought into Vogel and more often than not their night-to-night energy and effort overrode the LeBron and AD's lackadaisical inclinations.

That's not the case anymore. In 2023 we had Dennis and Vando doing that, but Dennis is gone (would love to get him back) and Vando has been hurt for like a year and a half now. AR plays with effort every night but DLo and Rui that don't play with much force (which is really frustrating with Rui, considering how physically gifted he is). Vincent tries out there but has been a near zero offensively although he may be trending up a bit. Max is also trending up after a really disappointing start to the season. Reddish has these bursts of energy for a few games when he gets back into the rotation, but then settles back into the player he's been the rest of his career. Dalton energizes the team when he hits threes but doesn't have a consistent night-to-night presence outside of making shots. You watch teams like the Magic or the Rockets, those guys are bought in and competing every single night regardless of who might be out with injury. We're a bunch of frontrunners. When our threes are falling, LeBron and AD are flexing to the crowd and the organ is playing at Crypto, we're a good team. But this team isn't attacking the regular season and trying to build good habits. They just pack it in when things aren't going well.

Good insight. Definitely has a ring of truth to it, especially in regards to AD and Lebron. My only quibble is 2016 seems a little early for the energy conserving Lebron. I think it was a few years later, that started. What has always bothered me is is this notion that role players take on the tenor of the leaders. Not that I don't believe it, but that these "professionals" actually do it. It doesn't matter how another player is playing, real or imagined, play hard, dammit. You're paid obscene amounts of money to play a game. Those guys in the championship season did just that, too.

Tbh, I don't know if it's really a case of the role players taking on the personality of the leaders. Guys like DLo and Rui generally don't play that hard regardless, and the roster is also severely lacking in athleticism. I'm pretty sure if you magically transported Caruso and KCP back onto the team, their effort level wouldn't be affected by what LeBron and AD were doing.

[Joao Saraiva]

Thoughts on Jimmy Butler?

Fit doesnt seem ideal, but neither are most of the options available

Anyone have data on his defense. His EPM is slightly positive still for defensive, but not sure hes the same defender anymore

LA takes him if they can. He might not be the same but he's a huge upgrade on the end of the floor the team has more trouble. Bring a big and play AD as PF, LBJ as SF or PG and Buttler as SF or SG.

If the Lakers can't do it if I'm LeBron I'd consider a move to GSW seriously. LA has shown they can't compete... it is his last chance. He's already hated, so no point on thinking about that any longer.

[SK21209]

And Vando was played off the floor in the playoffs. He's arguably a better defender than Simmons, too.

Simmons and Westbrook aren't similar in terms of style of play but the same issues persist when Lebron/AD have the ball. Defenses will ignore Simmons and clog the lane. There's only so many off-ball screening actions and other bells and whistles for JJ to employ to make it fit in the half-court. At the end of the day, a non-shooting center and Simmons is going to be exploited in the half-court by any half decent team.

No good team in the NBA has multiple non-shooters in their starting lineup.

100% agreed, hard no on Simmons. I think there's a bigger problem even than the roster being full of one-way players, Timpf was talking about it the other day. Teams tend to take on the personality and follow the lead of their stars. LeBron has been picking his spots and trying to conserve energy in the regular season since like 2016. AD isn't a super high motor player; sometimes when he's feeling motivated he'll go out there and drop 40 and 15, but other times he's passive and lets guys like Sabonis or Bam push him around. He's not out to prove he's one of the best players in the league every single night. In 2020 we surrounded those two with a bunch of physical two-way guys that played with maximum effort every night. Caruso, Bradley, Green, KCP, McGee, Dwight, even Kuz. They all bought into Vogel and more often than not their night-to-night energy and effort overrode the LeBron and AD's lackadaisical inclinations.

That's not the case anymore. In 2023 we had Dennis and Vando doing that, but Dennis is gone (would love to get him back) and Vando has been hurt for like a year and a half now. AR plays with effort every night but DLo and Rui that don't play with much force (which is really frustrating with Rui, considering how physically gifted he is). Vincent tries out there but has been a near zero offensively although he may be trending up a bit. Max is also trending up after a really disappointing start to the season. Reddish has these bursts of energy for a few games when he gets back into the rotation, but then settles back into the player he's been the rest of his career. Dalton energizes the team when he hits threes but doesn't have a consistent night-to-night presence outside of making shots. You watch teams like the Magic or the Rockets, those guys are bought in and competing every single night regardless of who might be out with injury. We're a bunch of frontrunners. When our threes are falling, LeBron and AD are flexing to the crowd and the organ is playing at Crypto, we're a good team. But this team isn't attacking the regular season and trying to build good habits. They just pack it in when things aren't going well.

Good insight. Definitely has a ring of truth to it, especially in regards to AD and Lebron. My only quibble is 2016 seems a little early for the energy conserving Lebron. I think it was a few years later, that started. What has always bothered me is is this notion that role players take on the tenor of the leaders. Not that I don't believe it, but that these "professionals" actually do it. It doesn't matter how another player is playing, real or imagined, play hard, dammit. You're paid obscene amounts of money to play a game. Those guys in the championship season did just that, too.

I think it was happening to a lesser extent almost as soon as he went back to Cleveland, but got way more obvious in 2018. I remember Windhorst had a whole piece that year about how he was finding times to rest in the middle of games. But in even in 2016 and 2017, I thought those Cavs teams underachieved a bit in the regular season. The 2017 Cavs in particular were an absolute juggernaut on offense but only won 51 games in an Eastern Conference won by the 53 win Celtics who were one of the weakest 1 seeds ever. I thought the Cavs should have been over 60 wins both years. Part of it is also that LeBron was a near perfect player in Miami on both sides of the court, so anything less than that (particularly defensively) felt like he was taking it easy. And in 2015 he did the passive aggressive, not playing super hard thing for a while to get them to make trades.

[zimpy27]

Thoughts on Jimmy Butler?

Fit doesnt seem ideal, but neither are most of the options available

Anyone have data on his defense. His EPM is slightly positive still for defensive, but not sure hes the same defender anymore

I wanted Butler back in 2019 when Lakers were locked on Kawhi.

I'd still take him, I think he fits very well with LeBron and Davis. I think he'd fit very well to replace the need for DLo on this Lakers team.

Lakers would have to lose Rui and Vincent with DLo at the very least. I'm not worried about this.

PG: Reaves (36) | Butler (12)
SG: Knecht (30) | Christie (20)
SF: Butler (26) | Reddish (20)
PF: LeBron (38) | Davis (10)
C : Davis (28) | Wood (20)
3rd tier: JHS, Bronny, Lewis, Hayes


Have to wonder if any of the above rotation could be replaced by Burks, Love, Bryant, JRich or cheap players from a 3rd team.

[nzahir]

Thoughts on Jimmy Butler?

Fit doesnt seem ideal, but neither are most of the options available

Anyone have data on his defense. His EPM is slightly positive still for defensive, but not sure hes the same defender anymore

LA takes him if they can. He might not be the same but he's a huge upgrade on the end of the floor the team has more trouble. Bring a big and play AD as PF, LBJ as SF or PG and Buttler as SF or SG.

If the Lakers can't do it if I'm LeBron I'd consider a move to GSW seriously. LA has shown they can't compete... it is his last chance. He's already hated, so no point on thinking about that any longer.

I think AD has to be our 5, unless we can get a 4/5 who can space the floor, but even then you want AD to play majority of min at the 5

And if we are going for Jimmy, then cant spend too mch $ on a C

The question is can we get Jimmy without giving up Reaves or Knecht?

Does Christie have value to them?

[nzahir]

Thoughts on Jimmy Butler?

Fit doesnt seem ideal, but neither are most of the options available

Anyone have data on his defense. His EPM is slightly positive still for defensive, but not sure hes the same defender anymore

I wanted Butler back in 2019 when Lakers were locked on Kawhi.

I'd still take him, I think he fits very well with LeBron and Davis. I think he'd fit very well to replace the need for DLo on this Lakers team.

Lakers would have to lose Rui and Vincent with DLo at the very least. I'm not worried about this.

PG: Reaves (36) | Butler (12)
SG: Knecht (30) | Christie (20)
SF: Butler (26) | Reddish (20)
PF: LeBron (38) | Davis (10)
C : Davis (28) | Wood (20)
3rd tier: JHS, Bronny, Lewis, Hayes


Have to wonder if any of the above rotation could be replaced by Burks, Love, Bryant, JRich or cheap players from a 3rd team.

Why is he a great fit?

Not a great floor spacer

He can get some easy buckets with fts and a decent mid range shot

Solid defender and brings intensity and playmaking

So I see the positives, but also some big risks

Injury risk, big money, not a great 3 point shooter

Remember those heat Teams with a prime/near prime Bron struggled at times on offense due to the clunky fit of he and Wade

Bron is a better shooter now though and Jimmy a better shooter from 3 than Wade, but both guys much more dynamic and able to attack the basket then

Also does Miami do a deal with no Reaves or Knecht? DO they value Max?

If its giving up a 29 1st and 2nds/swaps, have to do it

But what if they ask for 2031 as well?

[zimpy27]

Thoughts on Jimmy Butler?

Fit doesnt seem ideal, but neither are most of the options available

Anyone have data on his defense. His EPM is slightly positive still for defensive, but not sure hes the same defender anymore

I wanted Butler back in 2019 when Lakers were locked on Kawhi.

I'd still take him, I think he fits very well with LeBron and Davis. I think he'd fit very well to replace the need for DLo on this Lakers team.

Lakers would have to lose Rui and Vincent with DLo at the very least. I'm not worried about this.

PG: Reaves (36) | Butler (12)
SG: Knecht (30) | Christie (20)
SF: Butler (26) | Reddish (20)
PF: LeBron (38) | Davis (10)
C : Davis (28) | Wood (20)
3rd tier: JHS, Bronny, Lewis, Hayes


Have to wonder if any of the above rotation could be replaced by Burks, Love, Bryant, JRich or cheap players from a 3rd team.

Why is he a great fit?

Not a great floor spacer

He can get some easy buckets with fts and a decent mid range shot

Solid defender and brings intensity and playmaking

So I see the positives, but also some big risks

Injury risk, big money, not a great 3 point shooter

Remember those heat Teams with a prime/near prime Bron struggled at times on offense due to the clunky fit of he and Wade

Bron is a better shooter now though and Jimmy a better shooter from 3 than Wade, but both guys much more dynamic and able to attack the basket then

Also does Miami do a deal with no Reaves or Knecht? DO they value Max?

If its giving up a 29 1st and 2nds/swaps, have to do it

But what if they ask for 2031 as well?

Floor spacing is fine, you don't just leave Jimmy on the perimeter to operate as a driver or playmaker, players still defend him like they defend LeBron.

LeBron and Davis are slow and operate in the half court with 2 man games. Partially why Lakers offense under Reddick works well without LeBron but not so great with LeBron is that it's playing to role player strengths (movement and spacing) but not LeBrons.

Butler is more like LeBron, he can operate in a slowed down half court offense. I prefer this to spacing a movement tbh.

LeBron struggles on Heat was more about when to defer and when not to defer. I think he's always struggled with this. But he's less about this as he's become more focused on being off ball.

I think DLo, Rui, Vincent, Vando with an unprotected FRP and SRPs, perhaps with an unprotected swap as well. Lakers could also unprotect the Utah pick to get more value in with them as 3rd or 4th team.

He's effectively an old and expiring player.

[trickshot]

And Vando was played off the floor in the playoffs. He's arguably a better defender than Simmons, too.

Simmons and Westbrook aren't similar in terms of style of play but the same issues persist when Lebron/AD have the ball. Defenses will ignore Simmons and clog the lane. There's only so many off-ball screening actions and other bells and whistles for JJ to employ to make it fit in the half-court. At the end of the day, a non-shooting center and Simmons is going to be exploited in the half-court by any half decent team.

No good team in the NBA has multiple non-shooters in their starting lineup.

100% agreed, hard no on Simmons. I think there's a bigger problem even than the roster being full of one-way players, Timpf was talking about it the other day. Teams tend to take on the personality and follow the lead of their stars. LeBron has been picking his spots and trying to conserve energy in the regular season since like 2016. AD isn't a super high motor player; sometimes when he's feeling motivated he'll go out there and drop 40 and 15, but other times he's passive and lets guys like Sabonis or Bam push him around. He's not out to prove he's one of the best players in the league every single night. In 2020 we surrounded those two with a bunch of physical two-way guys that played with maximum effort every night. Caruso, Bradley, Green, KCP, McGee, Dwight, even Kuz. They all bought into Vogel and more often than not their night-to-night energy and effort overrode the LeBron and AD's lackadaisical inclinations.

That's not the case anymore. In 2023 we had Dennis and Vando doing that, but Dennis is gone (would love to get him back) and Vando has been hurt for like a year and a half now. AR plays with effort every night but DLo and Rui that don't play with much force (which is really frustrating with Rui, considering how physically gifted he is). Vincent tries out there but has been a near zero offensively although he may be trending up a bit. Max is also trending up after a really disappointing start to the season. Reddish has these bursts of energy for a few games when he gets back into the rotation, but then settles back into the player he's been the rest of his career. Dalton energizes the team when he hits threes but doesn't have a consistent night-to-night presence outside of making shots. You watch teams like the Magic or the Rockets, those guys are bought in and competing every single night regardless of who might be out with injury. We're a bunch of frontrunners. When our threes are falling, LeBron and AD are flexing to the crowd and the organ is playing at Crypto, we're a good team. But this team isn't attacking the regular season and trying to build good habits. They just pack it in when things aren't going well.

Good insight. Definitely has a ring of truth to it, especially in regards to AD and Lebron. My only quibble is 2016 seems a little early for the energy conserving Lebron. I think it was a few years later, that started. What has always bothered me is is this notion that role players take on the tenor of the leaders. Not that I don't believe it, but that these "professionals" actually do it. It doesn't matter how another player is playing, real or imagined, play hard, dammit. You're paid obscene amounts of money to play a game. Those guys in the championship season did just that, too.

Don't buy it either. Dallas defenders don't follow Luka and Warriors don't follow Curry. No one followed AD's lead the first couple games where he looked like a DPOY. In the actual games you see Dlo not even try before asking AD or the 40 year old to switch. It's just also hard to defend Lebron right now with a straight face because he hasn't been the best on that end either. But it's not why Dlo is low effort, Rui lacks concentration and everyone is unathletic.

[nzahir]

I wanted Butler back in 2019 when Lakers were locked on Kawhi.

I'd still take him, I think he fits very well with LeBron and Davis. I think he'd fit very well to replace the need for DLo on this Lakers team.

Lakers would have to lose Rui and Vincent with DLo at the very least. I'm not worried about this.

PG: Reaves (36) | Butler (12)
SG: Knecht (30) | Christie (20)
SF: Butler (26) | Reddish (20)
PF: LeBron (38) | Davis (10)
C : Davis (28) | Wood (20)
3rd tier: JHS, Bronny, Lewis, Hayes


Have to wonder if any of the above rotation could be replaced by Burks, Love, Bryant, JRich or cheap players from a 3rd team.

Why is he a great fit?

Not a great floor spacer

He can get some easy buckets with fts and a decent mid range shot

Solid defender and brings intensity and playmaking

So I see the positives, but also some big risks

Injury risk, big money, not a great 3 point shooter

Remember those heat Teams with a prime/near prime Bron struggled at times on offense due to the clunky fit of he and Wade

Bron is a better shooter now though and Jimmy a better shooter from 3 than Wade, but both guys much more dynamic and able to attack the basket then

Also does Miami do a deal with no Reaves or Knecht? DO they value Max?

If its giving up a 29 1st and 2nds/swaps, have to do it

But what if they ask for 2031 as well?

Floor spacing is fine, you don't just leave Jimmy on the perimeter to operate as a driver or playmaker, players still defend him like they defend LeBron.

LeBron and Davis are slow and operate in the half court with 2 man games. Partially why Lakers offense under Reddick works well without LeBron but not so great with LeBron is that it's playing to role player strengths (movement and spacing) but not LeBrons.

Butler is more like LeBron, he can operate in a slowed down half court offense. I prefer this to spacing a movement tbh.

LeBron struggles on Heat was more about when to defer and when not to defer. I think he's always struggled with this. But he's less about this as he's become more focused on being off ball.

I think DLo, Rui, Vincent, Vando with an unprotected FRP and SRPs, perhaps with an unprotected swap as well. Lakers could also unprotect the Utah pick to get more value in with them as 3rd or 4th team.

He's effectively an old and expiring player.

So you want a 3rd guy who will play slow iso ball and not push the pace?

Even though you said we do better when we have less of that?

Im a bit lost

I dont see us moving both 1sts, unless 2031 is lotto protected and becomes 1-2 2nds

Not moving Reaves or Knecht in this move

So if its Vando, Dlo, Rui, and JHS/Christie/Vincent (then take back 2-3 guys if Vincent) 29 1st with no protections, 28 swap or 30 swap, 2031 with heavy protections. Then yes

Still got some 2nds and salaries to get a backup C like Sharpe.

Other option is what if GS gets Jimmy and we go and get Wiggins

Look to add Lonzo or Smart and RW3

Think we can do all of that without giving up much

Maybe multiple 2nds and a swap or throw in a protected 29 1st and get a 2nd or two back and then use to get others in the deal

[zimpy27]

Why is he a great fit?

Not a great floor spacer

He can get some easy buckets with fts and a decent mid range shot

Solid defender and brings intensity and playmaking

So I see the positives, but also some big risks

Injury risk, big money, not a great 3 point shooter

Remember those heat Teams with a prime/near prime Bron struggled at times on offense due to the clunky fit of he and Wade

Bron is a better shooter now though and Jimmy a better shooter from 3 than Wade, but both guys much more dynamic and able to attack the basket then

Also does Miami do a deal with no Reaves or Knecht? DO they value Max?

If its giving up a 29 1st and 2nds/swaps, have to do it

But what if they ask for 2031 as well?

Floor spacing is fine, you don't just leave Jimmy on the perimeter to operate as a driver or playmaker, players still defend him like they defend LeBron.

LeBron and Davis are slow and operate in the half court with 2 man games. Partially why Lakers offense under Reddick works well without LeBron but not so great with LeBron is that it's playing to role player strengths (movement and spacing) but not LeBrons.

Butler is more like LeBron, he can operate in a slowed down half court offense. I prefer this to spacing a movement tbh.

LeBron struggles on Heat was more about when to defer and when not to defer. I think he's always struggled with this. But he's less about this as he's become more focused on being off ball.

I think DLo, Rui, Vincent, Vando with an unprotected FRP and SRPs, perhaps with an unprotected swap as well. Lakers could also unprotect the Utah pick to get more value in with them as 3rd or 4th team.

He's effectively an old and expiring player.

So you want a 3rd guy who will play slow iso ball and not push the pace?

Even though you said we do better when we have less of that?

Im a bit lost

I dont see us moving both 1sts, unless 2031 is lotto protected and becomes 1-2 2nds

Not moving Reaves or Knecht in this move

So if its Vando, Dlo, Rui, and JHS/Christie/Vincent (then take back 2-3 guys if Vincent) 29 1st with no protections, 28 swap or 30 swap, 2031 with heavy protections. Then yes

Still got some 2nds and salaries to get a backup C like Sharpe.

Other option is what if GS gets Jimmy and we go and get Wiggins

Look to add Lonzo or Smart and RW3

Think we can do all of that without giving up much

Maybe multiple 2nds and a swap or throw in a protected 29 1st and get a 2nd or two back and then use to get others in the deal

Yes exactly. I think the team needs to go the pace of the 2 superstars on offense.

Trying to play faster than the comfort of the superstars is not going to work unless both or one of those stars is on the bench. As far as playoffs are concerned I'd want players that play at the pace of the superstar and can score efficiently in the half court.

Only on defense do I want them to be more pace that the 2 superstars..

Yeah I'm in to Butler or Lonzo or Simmons as guys that can defend and playmake. Butler is the best of the lot for sure but he's expensive to own.

[nzahir]

Floor spacing is fine, you don't just leave Jimmy on the perimeter to operate as a driver or playmaker, players still defend him like they defend LeBron.

LeBron and Davis are slow and operate in the half court with 2 man games. Partially why Lakers offense under Reddick works well without LeBron but not so great with LeBron is that it's playing to role player strengths (movement and spacing) but not LeBrons.

Butler is more like LeBron, he can operate in a slowed down half court offense. I prefer this to spacing a movement tbh.

LeBron struggles on Heat was more about when to defer and when not to defer. I think he's always struggled with this. But he's less about this as he's become more focused on being off ball.

I think DLo, Rui, Vincent, Vando with an unprotected FRP and SRPs, perhaps with an unprotected swap as well. Lakers could also unprotect the Utah pick to get more value in with them as 3rd or 4th team.

He's effectively an old and expiring player.

So you want a 3rd guy who will play slow iso ball and not push the pace?

Even though you said we do better when we have less of that?

Im a bit lost

I dont see us moving both 1sts, unless 2031 is lotto protected and becomes 1-2 2nds

Not moving Reaves or Knecht in this move

So if its Vando, Dlo, Rui, and JHS/Christie/Vincent (then take back 2-3 guys if Vincent) 29 1st with no protections, 28 swap or 30 swap, 2031 with heavy protections. Then yes

Still got some 2nds and salaries to get a backup C like Sharpe.

Other option is what if GS gets Jimmy and we go and get Wiggins

Look to add Lonzo or Smart and RW3

Think we can do all of that without giving up much

Maybe multiple 2nds and a swap or throw in a protected 29 1st and get a 2nd or two back and then use to get others in the deal

Yes exactly. I think the team needs to go the pace of the 2 superstars on offense.

Trying to play faster than the comfort of the superstars is not going to work unless both or one of those stars is on the bench. As far as playoffs are concerned I'd want players that play at the pace of the superstar and can score efficiently in the half court.

Only on defense do I want them to be more pace that the 2 superstars..

Yeah I'm in to Butler or Lonzo or Simmons as guys that can defend and playmake. Butler is the best of the lot for sure but he's expensive to own.

So even though the offense is better faster....you want us slower?

Jimmy is probably the best move we can make. Hope this pathetic FO does something

If we arent going to push in the chips, I feel like Bron asks out to a team like GS

[zimpy27]

So you want a 3rd guy who will play slow iso ball and not push the pace?

Even though you said we do better when we have less of that?

Im a bit lost

I dont see us moving both 1sts, unless 2031 is lotto protected and becomes 1-2 2nds

Not moving Reaves or Knecht in this move

So if its Vando, Dlo, Rui, and JHS/Christie/Vincent (then take back 2-3 guys if Vincent) 29 1st with no protections, 28 swap or 30 swap, 2031 with heavy protections. Then yes

Still got some 2nds and salaries to get a backup C like Sharpe.

Other option is what if GS gets Jimmy and we go and get Wiggins

Look to add Lonzo or Smart and RW3

Think we can do all of that without giving up much

Maybe multiple 2nds and a swap or throw in a protected 29 1st and get a 2nd or two back and then use to get others in the deal

Yes exactly. I think the team needs to go the pace of the 2 superstars on offense.

Trying to play faster than the comfort of the superstars is not going to work unless both or one of those stars is on the bench. As far as playoffs are concerned I'd want players that play at the pace of the superstar and can score efficiently in the half court.

Only on defense do I want them to be more pace that the 2 superstars..

Yeah I'm in to Butler or Lonzo or Simmons as guys that can defend and playmake. Butler is the best of the lot for sure but he's expensive to own.

So even though the offense is better faster....you want us slower?

Jimmy is probably the best move we can make. Hope this pathetic FO does something

If we arent going to push in the chips, I feel like Bron asks out to a team like GS

The offense playing faster isn't making the team better unless LeBron is on the bench.

I hope LeBron goes back to Cavs and makes them legit.

[nzahir]

Yes exactly. I think the team needs to go the pace of the 2 superstars on offense.

Trying to play faster than the comfort of the superstars is not going to work unless both or one of those stars is on the bench. As far as playoffs are concerned I'd want players that play at the pace of the superstar and can score efficiently in the half court.

Only on defense do I want them to be more pace that the 2 superstars..

Yeah I'm in to Butler or Lonzo or Simmons as guys that can defend and playmake. Butler is the best of the lot for sure but he's expensive to own.

So even though the offense is better faster....you want us slower?

Jimmy is probably the best move we can make. Hope this pathetic FO does something

If we arent going to push in the chips, I feel like Bron asks out to a team like GS

The offense playing faster isn't making the team better unless LeBron is on the bench.

I hope LeBron goes back to Cavs and makes them legit.

Or you get Bron to buy into playing faster at times

If we dont make multiple miraculous moves or go and get Jimmy, I don't even understand why Bron and AD aren't shipped

Lebron makes too much money for a CLE deal

He would need to take the MLE in the summer

Now that would be a great idea for him if he wants to win

Maybe even come off the bench?

[zimpy27]

So even though the offense is better faster....you want us slower?

Jimmy is probably the best move we can make. Hope this pathetic FO does something

If we arent going to push in the chips, I feel like Bron asks out to a team like GS

The offense playing faster isn't making the team better unless LeBron is on the bench.

I hope LeBron goes back to Cavs and makes them legit.

Or you get Bron to buy into playing faster at times

If we dont make multiple miraculous moves or go and get Jimmy, I don't even understand why Bron and AD aren't shipped

Lebron makes too much money for a CLE deal

He would need to take the MLE in the summer

Now that would be a great idea for him if he wants to win

Maybe even come off the bench?

Was thinking Garland+Niang for LeBron+Bronny

[nzahir]

The offense playing faster isn't making the team better unless LeBron is on the bench.

I hope LeBron goes back to Cavs and makes them legit.

Or you get Bron to buy into playing faster at times

If we dont make multiple miraculous moves or go and get Jimmy, I don't even understand why Bron and AD aren't shipped

Lebron makes too much money for a CLE deal

He would need to take the MLE in the summer

Now that would be a great idea for him if he wants to win

Maybe even come off the bench?

Was thinking Garland+Niang for LeBron+Bronny

Why would CLE do this?

Garland is 24 years old and has been an all star

If CLE has to move Garland, they should try to get Reaves back or a 1st at least