2021-22 NBA Season Discussion

[Texas Chuck]

To the extent it is worse for Luka, if the explanation is something other than this being deeper in the playoffs, then it would seem to mean Luka's just a higher profile player than Jokic. That statement seems odd given that Jokic older and has won the last two MVPs while Luka hasn't won any, but nevertheless, I think it's true.

I disagree Luka is higher profile. More popular? Yeah probably. Wings typically are more popular than bigs.

I think its twofold: deeper in the playoffs as you suggest, and Jokic actually showed better defense in the RS than Luka did. So I think in some eyes Jokic was already "proven" as a defender and just the Warriors not a great matchup for a not particularly mobile big. Whereas with Luka its seen as a personal failing for being out of shape---again Jokic seems to have moved past the fat Joker stuff that Luka still deals with every day.

All I know is, Luka isn't good enough defensively to have the team success he ultimately wants to have. And I hope a lot of this attention being drawn to his poor defense is motivating. But only he can answer that with how he spends his off-season.

[jalengreen]

off topic (kind of) but is curious how much more benefit of the doubt jokic got for defense than doncic is getting

both players share the distinction of "other team scored a bajillion points in ultra efficiency in possesions guarded by them

this is not to say that jokic defense was not better thab doncic, it probably was, but with nikola he was kinda given a pass and there was very little serious discussion of his defense

this is not to criticize jokic, just to comment that it felt like people were much more willing to handwave away conversation on it cause he had weaker defense teammates or warriors were a bad matchup

while with luka we saw similar "this is how often and efficiently warriors scored on him" numbers and called it a day that luka defense sucks and he and him alone deserves all the blame for it

honestly felt like jokic got a ton of criticism, specifically because of the whole MVP thing and how advanced defensive stats rated him very highly so people were eager to see them "proven wrong." maybe not on this board specifically though

[jalengreen]

Man I started doing laundry after the 3rd quarter

Did that comeback look for real or Mavs were just playing around?

was an 8 point game with 3 minutes left

definitely went from a blowout to "woah this is a very winnable game" even if the mavs were still in control

and the mavs had their starters in at that point too. were forced to bring back luka

and the comeback honestly seemed to end when steph came back in. maybe they should've just rolled with the poole/lee/moody/kuminga/bjelica (if i recall correctly) lineup that brought them back, they were extremely hot.

[Doctor MJ]

To the extent it is worse for Luka, if the explanation is something other than this being deeper in the playoffs, then it would seem to mean Luka's just a higher profile player than Jokic. That statement seems odd given that Jokic older and has won the last two MVPs while Luka hasn't won any, but nevertheless, I think it's true.

I disagree Luka is higher profile. More popular? Yeah probably. Wings typically are more popular than bigs.

I think its twofold: deeper in the playoffs as you suggest, and Jokic actually showed better defense in the RS than Luka did. So I think in some eyes Jokic was already "proven" as a defender and just the Warriors not a great matchup for a not particularly mobile big. Whereas with Luka its seen as a personal failing for being out of shape---again Jokic seems to have moved past the fat Joker stuff that Luka still deals with every day.

All I know is, Luka isn't good enough defensively to have the team success he ultimately wants to have. And I hope a lot of this attention being drawn to his poor defense is motivating. But only he can answer that with how he spends his off-season.

How would you distinguish between profile and popularity?

[falcolombardi]

To the extent it is worse for Luka, if the explanation is something other than this being deeper in the playoffs, then it would seem to mean Luka's just a higher profile player than Jokic. That statement seems odd given that Jokic older and has won the last two MVPs while Luka hasn't won any, but nevertheless, I think it's true.

I disagree Luka is higher profile. More popular? Yeah probably. Wings typically are more popular than bigs.

I think its twofold: deeper in the playoffs as you suggest, and Jokic actually showed better defense in the RS than Luka did. So I think in some eyes Jokic was already "proven" as a defender and just the Warriors not a great matchup for a not particularly mobile big. Whereas with Luka its seen as a personal failing for being out of shape---again Jokic seems to have moved past the fat Joker stuff that Luka still deals with every day.

All I know is, Luka isn't good enough defensively to have the team success he ultimately wants to have. And I hope a lot of this attention being drawn to his poor defense is motivating. But only he can answer that with how he spends his off-season.

How would you distinguish between profile and popularity?

rudy gobert is extremely high profile even with casual fans, just happen to 99% dislike or diminish him as a scrub, but he gets a ton of attention even if most of it is to scrutinize or mock him

alex caruso is very popular but he is not so high profile as gobert talk about him and analize his play so much

[Doctor MJ]

I disagree Luka is higher profile. More popular? Yeah probably. Wings typically are more popular than bigs.

I think its twofold: deeper in the playoffs as you suggest, and Jokic actually showed better defense in the RS than Luka did. So I think in some eyes Jokic was already "proven" as a defender and just the Warriors not a great matchup for a not particularly mobile big. Whereas with Luka its seen as a personal failing for being out of shape---again Jokic seems to have moved past the fat Joker stuff that Luka still deals with every day.

All I know is, Luka isn't good enough defensively to have the team success he ultimately wants to have. And I hope a lot of this attention being drawn to his poor defense is motivating. But only he can answer that with how he spends his off-season.

How would you distinguish between profile and popularity?

rudy gobert is extremely high profile even with casual fans, just happen to 99% dislike or diminish him as a scrub, but he gets a ton of attention even if most of it is to scrutinize or mock him

alex caruso is very popular but he is not so high profile as gobert talk about him and analize his play so much

Makes sense, but but by this definition, I'd consider Doncic to be higher profile than Jokic. If I go look at something like Google Trends, Doncic generally has had the edge from 2018 onward (with neither player being a big deal before then).

I also collect basketball cards, and there Doncic has been huge this entire time while Jokic remains something of an afterthought. Yes the fact that Jokic is a big hurts him there, but I think the bigger thing is that circa 2018 people were talking about Doncic as "the next great one" whereas Jokic just kind of emerged unexpectedly as an MVP. Had Jokic been given Doncic hype and Doncic given Jokic's absence-of-high, I'd expect things would be very different.

[Texas Chuck]

How would you distinguish between profile and popularity?

Very good question. And results may vary.

but I have guys like Harden and Kyrie and Simmons very high profile. But not particularly popular with large segments of NBA fans. On the flip side a guy like Boban is relatively low profile, but highly popular if that makes sense. You can be high profile and not be popular.

I would have both Jokic and Luka high profile. Not Lebron, probably not Steph or Giannis or KD, but right up there with everyone else.

Popularity I don't actually know. But just going by perimeter players tending to fare better than bigs historically.

[falcolombardi]

game 1: dallas 11/48 from 3 (23%) score only 87 points
total, warrioes score 112 points and easily win

game 2 dallas goes 21/45 from 3 (45%) but lets warriors score a wild 127 points, had they allowed as many points as games 1 or 3 they would have won

game 3:dallas defends better and holds warriors to 109 points, but they again struggle shooting with 13/45 from 3 (29%) and can only score 100 points, if they scored as well as game 2 they win this

game 4 dallas goes 20-43 (45%) AND doesnt let warriors score 127 points again, and they win

essentially dallas (game 4) and warriors (game 1) both had 1 perfect game they won by scoring a ton and stopping the other team offense

the difference in the series is that dallas has one game where they scored well but their defense was dreadful (or warriors unstopabble) and one where they defended the warriors well but their shooting was dreadful

this series could easily be 2-2 now if they shot at least decently in game 3 or didnt let warriors offense run so hot in game 2

this kinda shows the dangers of 3 point shooting dependance and volatility too

[RCM88x]

Butler just does not seem right.

Welcome to see a close game in the 2nd quarter lol

[falcolombardi]

Butler just does not seem right.

Welcome to see a close game in the 2nd quarter lol

i really hope he is not playing while injutred and aggravates it

it would be awful if heat made the finals but butler couldnt play

[jalengreen]

Butler just does not seem right.

Welcome to see a close game in the 2nd quarter lol

i really hope he is not playing while injutred and aggravates it

it would be awful if heat made the finals but butler couldnt play

tatum also keeps grabbing at that shoulder and grimacing. same one he hurt in g3 i think?

[falcolombardi]

boston vs warriors most likely now

gonna be a interesting finals

[RCM88x]

Heat are cooked

[TheGOATRises007]

The Celtics are clearly the better team.

I think the Warriors would demolish the Heat too.

Celtics-Warriors should be a great finals.

[jalengreen]

the lack of offense is just glaring for the heat. with butler looking hobbled, no herro, strus and lowry combining for 0-15... severely lacking scoring production

[ardee]

The Celtics are clearly the better team.

I think the Warriors would demolish the Heat too.

Celtics-Warriors should be a great finals.

With how inconsistent Tatum has been on offense, the Warriors should be the heavy favorite against Boston too.

[GSP]

As bad a defender as Herro is hes a better offensive player than i thought. I still think hes kind of overrated but damn he is easily Miamis 2nd best offensive player behind Jimmy and theyre just hopeless in trying to score without him. Not just his shotmaking either hes an underrated playmaker. Theyve barely cracked 80 points in the last 2 games without him and thats despite Duncan Robinson getting alot of those minutes as still a great shooter

[GSP]

Its prolly too early to say but the combo of Lowry, Pj and Robinson contracts could look really really really bad for Miami as early as next season. We already know now Robinson is prolly one of the worst contracts in the league but you gotta think Pj being undersized and as physical as he plays is bound to fall of a cliff soon. Lowry always had injury problems hes like a poor mans Cp3 and hes bound to look bad overnight soon too.........and it might be starting

[GSP]

Ec Mvp will be interesting if we close it out in 6..............think voters will have a tough time deciding between the Jays

[jalengreen]

Ec Mvp will be interesting if we close it out in 6..............think voters will have a tough time deciding between the Jays

totally forgot those awards existed. hmm i think it'd probably end up going to tatum if the series ended today. voters often seem to care about how a player performed in wins and JB's 40 point game might be given less weight because it was in a loss.